Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by General_Quenobi, Mar 18, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Darth_Nub
  1. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    No, that's not what I mean at all. It's level-headed because he actually reviewed it after seeing the film. All the other reviews I've read from soundtrack sites have been written without seeing the film. Many other reviewers talk about the music needing to be darker or whatnot and they admit in their reviews that they've not seen the films.

  2. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I reviewed it after I saw the film and I still say it's weak and uninteresting.
  3. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion no matter how much I disagree with it. I was referring to well established review sites that aren't giving the score a fair chance by reviewing it having not seen the film. If they want to review as a lousy listening experience, that's fine, but they shouldn't be saying such and such track should be darker or more romantic when they don't have a clue what scene its accompanying.
  4. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yes but if they've read the book, they have a certain amount of leeway there.
  5. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Yes and no. While the movies have been as close to the books as they can to work filmicly (new word, I know), the reviewers can't always no what's going on. For example, the scene in Dumbledore's office at the end of the film is drastically different in the book.
  6. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Hey there. I haven't seen the film yet, but I'm just popping in to say that this thread can now have full discussion and spoilers are permitted.

    :)
  7. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Right but when they say "the music for the kiss was too understated" or the music for Sirius' death was boring. Or even that there was a lack of thematic development, they know at least a little of what they are talking about.
  8. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Yes, they can certainly talk about the lack of thematic development, but to comment on specific moments from the film without seeing it, even if they have read the book, seems premature. For example, two or three reviews have stated that "The Kiss" is not romantic enough. Well, when first hearing the album, I felt the same thing, but felt completely different after seeing the film. The scene really is quite awkward and not overly romantic at all. Seconds before the kiss happens, we see an upset Cho staring a photo of her dead boyfriend wondering how he could have been saved. She obviously wasn't in the best state of mind. Not to mention the two of them are extremely shy and awkward at the time. It may not be interesting to listen to on its own, but it serves the scene very well indeed.

    As for Sirius' death, I retract my earlier statement about it being scored very well. I don't think it's scored poorly, but after seeing the film for a second this afternoon, I do feel the moment could have been more powerful. It just passed too quickly. I understand that they didn't want to be overly melodramatic, but I don't think it was handled as well as it should have been.
  9. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I thought the Kiss was scored fine. Sirius' death was one of the moments I felt fell musically flat. I also feel that way about Fred and George's exit from Hogwart's and a few other places.
  10. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah, I'm not crazy about Fred and George's exit either. Even though most of the score is quite simple and minimalistic, their exit just sounds generic. And It reminded me too much of the Irish jig from Doyle's score.
  11. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I also thought the intro to the film was non existent. It seems like it just starts right out with a full orchestra statement of Hedwig's theme and that just sounds weird.
  12. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    I really enjoyed the intro. The quick build up in the low strings to a not fully completed statement of Hedwig's Theme with fluttering instruments in the background greatly captured the feel of a coming darkness and confusion amongst the wizarding population about Voldermort's return that lingers over the entire film.
  13. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Just saw Order of the Phoenix. It's just underwhelming. So many good things going on, but a failure to condense the book's plot well (so many plot points explored cursorily, but not resolved) and some obnoxious cinematography/sound work (the constant zooming in/out and disorienting "swooshing" so typical of movies these days got on my nerves, as did the cheesy newspaper montages) made the movie unimpressive.

    Overall, the movie just felt muted! Dialogue was too sparse everywhere. Why do the Dursleys just leer stupidly? It's certainly in character, but so is Uncle Vernon beating the hell out of Harry. He doesn't even shout. Nothing's explained; Harry doesn't tell them what dementors are or wonder what they are doing in Little Whinging. While I don't object to Aunt Petunia's connection to Dumbledore being omitted (it probably won't end up being a really big deal), so little is said, and the scene is so brief. The scenes with the Order were also brief and skeletal. I asked a friend, "Did you blink and miss Lupin?" He replied, "Lupin was in the movie?" Indeed, there is a man sitting at the table who briefly discusses Voldemort's times, but the notion that he once had a close bond to Harry seems discarded. There's just no dialogue (not even a glance between characters) to support it. I did, however, very much like that he restrains Harry after Sirius's death. The scenes with Sirius are well done, but seem awkward because of Sirius's miniscule role in Goblet of Fire (not this film's fault, of course). All the members of the Order are there, but they're just, well, there. Amusing it is that Tonks's hair changes color, but given that she has, what, one line? is there any point to it?

    The scenes at Hogwarts belong to Harry and the extras, who come into their own very well (Neville, Ginny, Seamus), but not to Ron and Hermione, who mutter and consider and explicate, but act continually restrained and unenthusiastic. Poor Malfoy; Crabbe and Goyle practically have larger parts than his. Umbridge is great as portrayed by Staunton, but I got exasperated with the enormous role of Mr. Filch. He's mean, he hates children, and he likes Umbridge; we get it. He needn't have such an exceptional amount of screen time, especially given that (again, the dialogue) he has so few lines. Wait... I actually don't recall him having any lines! And Filch's voice was fun to hear; an icon of Harry Potter. The romance with Cho was very thorough and very pointless. Since the movie takes a page out of Half-Blood Prince and foreshadows the Harry/Ginny relationship, couldn't it have done away with Cho entirely? At least, we didn't need six different shots of the kiss; just a brief, clumsy start to it, then cut to Harry in the common room feeling weird. Why was Hermione's interminable dialogue about Cho's feelings retained? It's about as important as S.P.E.W. I can see that the only reason for Grawp was to give Hagrid something to do, but the giant subplot could have been cut (Hermione needed only to lead Umbridge to the centaurs, not both the centaurs and Grawp) and Hagrid could have been returned his scene at the end where he comforts Harry. Instead, we don't even see Hagrid after the battle at the Ministry, despite his prominence in Harry's life. The battle at the Ministry was good, with the weak point being the score. "Sirius's Death" and "Possession," with their simple, predictable and dully orchestrated sound weren't impressive. Also, the constant, dementor-like apparation of the Death Eaters and the Order, as well as their ability to cast spells without incantations, required some considerable suspension of disbelief. The ending of the film totally failed to provide explanations, as usual (why have the past three films all screwed this up?). Harry hears the prophecy before Lucius Malfoy asks "Don't you want to know the secrets? ..." which was certainly a clumsy choice in scriptwriting. We don't find out that Trelawney made the prophecy (it would have justified her strangely drawn out dismissal scene). We don't find out th
  14. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Isn't this thread for discussion of the score? Shouldn't film discussion go in other forums?
  15. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Why not discuss the film?

    Other forums discuss score.
  16. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Cerrabore, while I agree with you on some points, I think you have to admit that it will be nigh impossible to make someone who read the book happy with the film. We're talking about an 870 page book being condensed into a 2.5 hour movie. Some of the things you mention such as the Dursley's and Tonk's hair were there mainly for character. People don't always have to have something to do to be in a film. They add to the world.

    I think it's fairly easy to deduce that Snape alerted the Order, and although the story with Kreacher tricking Harry and Harry feeling even more guilty over Sirius' death was good in the book, it wasn't neccessary and would have mucked things up even more had it been included in the film.

    I do however, agree with you about the ending not tying things up well. I think it was a huge error to change the conversation between Dumbledore and Harry at the end. I understand why they didn't have Harry thrwowing things and shouting, but to not have the information about Trelawney and Neville in there could come back to bite them later.
  17. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    People cannot let go of books when they see film adaptations. But then most people don't seem to grasp what adaptation means. Saying the film is not as good as the book or that the film sucks compared to the book is like saying that this apple is the worst tasting orange. Yeah. Not the same. The question isn't how did OOTP compare to the book, but how did it work AS A FILM. I think it worked very well as a film and friends who've not read the books seemed to enjoy it too.
  18. Miana Kenobi Costuming & Props Mod - Retired Admin

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    My music review of it: I thought the score by itself was great. However, I wasn't a big fan of it in the movie. I thought Umbridge's theme was the strongest one, next to the Fireworks music. However, the rest of it just seemed to be nonexistant.
  19. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    See, I'm the exact opposite. I don't think it's that compelling of a listen on its own, but works wonderfully with the images in the film.
  20. Miana Kenobi Costuming & Props Mod - Retired Admin

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    It was just anti-climatic to me. Like I said, Umbridge's theme worked beautifully, but it just didn't do anything for me.
  21. General_Quenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2004
    star 1
    The best way to describe it for me is it is good for a book reading. While reading Potter you could have the album playing and mostly the tracks are soft enough and general enough to provide some background music while you read the Potterverse. Same goes for the film...it complimiented it very well I think when it wasn't the focus.

    As an album experience there are some good underscore moments in most tracks but like many have already said nothing is every really developed into an arc. Also, the track order presented on the album is rubbish. If it weren't a waste of a CD I'd burn the chronological order and listen to that. Oh well, I'll listen to it in order on iTunes and my iPod. Overall, I think that Doyle had better themes consistently, but Hooper had better orchestration, and his theme for Umbridge and The Room of Requirement were GREAT! Hooper's definitely adds a few tracks to a HP greatest tracks playlist, but not as many as I'd hoped.

    Oh well. For the first time in a few years the next movie will retain the same composer so maybe we will have some development of ideas and themes since a new composer isn't turning his nose up at previous themes and thinking he can do better when he clearly should have incorporated a few more older themes.
  22. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    "The Room of Requirement" is quite the score highlight. It's fugue-like in its construction. Delightful melody, a little tension here, heroism there... the last minute is particularly good.
  23. shiningstars Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2002
    star 2
    I thought the score was a nice attempt...
    My main problem is that many tracks end without finishing and just when you begin to enjoy the track, it's over. I loved Another Story, it creates a dark atmosphere which fits with OotP. I thought the Flight of the Phoenix started of well but I didn't like what he did with it after the build-up at about 45 seconds. Prisoner still remains the strongest Harry Potter score, although I'd like to see what Hooper does with H-BP (He is signed for it right?).

    Seems like so many people had a problem with Grawp and I agree the CG was quite bad and he felt unnecessary. But apparently Rowling was shown the script (or the unfinished movie, can't remember which) with a certain character was missing, and she said if you are going to make a 7th movie you will have your hands tied up if that character is absent from OotP... I wonder if it was Grawp? It could be Aberforth too but he had a blink and miss appearance so I doubt that counts...Who else could it be? who was added after Jo made them?
  24. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    That would be Kreacher. It's specifically been mentioned by the filmmakers. As for Grawp, the awful thing wasn't really necessary - Umbridge could simply have been taken away by the centaurs. No setup? Just replace the first Grawp scene with the trio talking with Hagrid in the Forbidden Forest, some centaurs shuffling past, and Hagrid commenting that they're getting restless (wasn't that included, anyway?).
  25. shiningstars Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2002
    star 2
    wow Kreacher yes, I didn't remember Kreacher! thanks for telling me :) then I suppose we could have done without Grawp but maybe they thought he will come in as important later and put him in, who knows?
Moderators: Darth_Nub
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.