Amph Harry Potter: The Last Horcrux? Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Yup, so it has to be Harry that'll deliver the final blow.

 

Not if Voldemort kills Harry, the final horcrux, first.
Which in turn would make Voldemort human again.

The prophecy stops when one of them kills the other, what happens after the prophecy is fulfilled is anyone's guess.

 

Let's look at what the prophesy actually says. This is from Page 841 of the chapte The Lost Prophesy in the American hardback edition of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix:

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approahes...
Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...
And the Dark Lord will mark him as an equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...
And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives..."

Line one-- tells us that there actually is one that can defeat the Dark Lord once and for all. Pretty straightforward.

Line two-- this kid's parents are important too in that they have defied the Dark Lord three times and have lived to tell te tell. The second half tells us that this kid will be born towards the end of July. Of course we now know that this line could have refered to one of two boys: Harry Potter or Neville Longbottom. As of yet in the prophesy there is no way to tell who this prophesy refers to.

Line three-- now we know who the prophesy is about (Harry) because it was entirely dependent upon Voldemort chosing either Harry or Neville. It also tells us that Voldemort believes that Harry is the one that will be the threat to his power, marking him an equal by going after him in the first place and (inadvertantly) markng him with the scar. The second half can mean a variety of things. It can eiter mean that Harry actually has an ability that Voldemort doesn't know he can do ... or it could mean that Harry as an ability that Voldemort himself doesn't have the capacity to perform (being able to love, perhaps? That is a strong theme in these books). Or perhaps it's some sort of combination of the two.

Line four-- One of them (at least) must die, that much is clear, but it doesn't say that they both won't die, leaving open the possibility that they both might die. However I think it's more likely that only one of them will die and that it will be Voldemort. The second half, "neither can live while the other survives," just seems to reinforce the first part. But it begs the question, if the second part of this line were really true then how exactly have they been able to both exist thus far?

 

Ah, I understand now DA. Interesting point. I suppose it's anyone's guess as to whether you are right or not. . .

 

Problem with prohecies is that it is all down to interpretation, example as the 7th month dies. I see that as that it would be the child born on the last day of the month as that is when the month "dies"so to speak, in which case there was never really a choice it just looked like it because Voldemort went after Harry.

Again, living can be down to interpretation. Voldemort certainly isn't a nice definition of living and Harry hasn't been having a good life up until this point either.

 

Dont forget that the majority of the prophecy means nothing at all unless Harry wants it to.

As Dumbledore states Harry can just turn his back on the prophecy and walk away if he so wishes to, it is Voldemort who made the most out of the prophecy and because he attacked Harry and killed his parents he fuelled Harry with the ambition to go after Voldemort to kill him.

 

why does the prophecy *stop*? makes no sense to me.

nonono, you cannot just ignore a prophecy as you please. they *always* come true.

 

I agree. But... remember what Dumbledore said, Harry and Voldemort would both have to walk away. The prophesy concerns the Dark Lord as much as Harry. Now we all know that Voldemort isn't just going to let the whole matter go. Anything that threatens his power or stands in the way of him gaining more power, he always has to be destroy. He's going to do everything in his power to rid himself of the greatest threat to his power and will force a confrontation with Harry. And since we know Harry's character pretty well by now, I think it's safe to say that Harry won't turn from the fight when it's upon him. It's just his nature to do the right thing. What could be more right than ridding the world of someone like Voldemort? So, really, the prophesy means everything right now because both Harry and Voldemort are making it so.

 

i don't get how you can say that the prophecy can become invalid. then it's not a prophecy!

 

Zebra I agree that because of who they both are they are not going to walk away from the prophecy and what it contains, but it is down to harry really, voldemort is so arrogant that he believes he is undefeatable, harry on the other hand does not feel like this and so could walk away and disapeer via the Fidelius charm, but he is who he is so he wont.

 

okay then, ignore me.

 

Good point jedichef1. Harry certainly isn't arrogant like Voldemort.

darth_frared-- not ignoring you. But I seem to recall a passage in HBP where Dumbledore mentions that there are a lot of prophesies in the Department of Mysteries that have never been fulfilled. Looking for the exact quote now...

 

yeah, sorry. the thing is that i haven't even read all the books. so i need you to fill me in. i just talk with HP fans and try to make sense of things..

so, just to reiterate, by definition, prophecies can't just *not* be fulfilled, i think. if it's divined etc, it will happen. no matter how much you don't want it to (and i imagine hary is somewhat less enthusiastic about his prophecy) and usually chosen ones die in the process.

there is lee-way in terms of *how* and *when* but not in ifs. i'm not above dumbledore, of course, but if JKR uses the word prophecy i think she should darn well be aware of it being connotated with always coming true.

 

"why does the prophecy *stop*? makes no sense to me."

What I was saying is that the prohpecy will be fulfilled, one of the comnatants will kill the other and that it will be Voldemort who kills Harry. Prophecy complete, explained. If Harry is the last horcrux, it means that if Voldemort kills him he'll be making himself mortal again, allowing anyone else in the wizarding world to kill him. I speculated that it'd be Snape.

 

Harry as a Horcrux just doesn't make sense to me. We know that Voldemort wants to kill Harry and always has. He's tried to kill him four times now. Why would he make a Horcrux out of something that he is desparately tring to destroy. That would completely defeat the purpose of finding a safe place to put part of his soul. Nothing is more important to Voldemort than himself. He would never think of destroying one of his horcuxes.

 

Exactly. That is why he may thinks that Harry coul'd never harm he, that he couldn't destroy the last Horcrux - himself. Just a thought, but it is very possible.

 

But Voldemort himself has tried on numerous occasions to kill Harry. Why would Voldemort make a horcrux out of something that's he's been trying to destroy? It seems impossible that he would place a portion of his soul in something that he wants to see wiped off the face of the Earth, thus destroying a part of himself in the process.

 

I really doubt Harry will be the last Horcrux. I think the last Horcrux will be something that's been staring us in the face through all six of the other books, but which hadn't been noticed before. I like the idea of the Mirror of Erised.

 

Watch it be something silly like the scar

 

"Why would Voldemort make a horcrux out of something that's he's been trying to destroy?"

Maybe it was an accidental thing when Voldemort tried to kill Harry first time round?
Harry certainly picked up some other odd traits from Voldemort for no real reason...maybe Voldemort doesn't know that Harry is the final horcrux?

I admit that it's the weakest part of the arguement

Edit: speeling

 

Grrrrr....once again, Harry cannot be the horcrux. It would seemingly work for Harry to be a horcrux since he killed Lily at the time when he cast the spell. However, Voldermort was casting the Avada Kavarda (sp?), not a Horcrux spell when he was trying to kill Harry.

If Harry WAS a horcrux, he would be constantly possessed by Voldermort, which he is not. The last horcrux is something else entirely.

 

Someone remind me why Snape had to teach Harry occlumency in OoTP?

 

Because it was supposed to prevent Voldermort from being able to access his mind while he slept and prevent Harry from seeing into Voldermort's mind.

 

Sounds vaguely like possession to me