Clone Wars Has anyone worked out a "master timeline" of the two CW serieses?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Kev Snowmane, Jan 5, 2013.

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  1. Kev Snowmane Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
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    I know that the chronology is NOT production order.

    Good example: Anakin is made a Knight in the current 3d CW series but the ceremony is shown in the 2d animated one.

    So has anyone sat down and indexed this all out yet?
  2. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I'm pretty sure that at least the first part of the original CW is no longer canon.
  3. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    Volume I has yet to be non-canon
    Volume II was rendered non-canon by Labyrinth of Evil, and even more so by the new series.
  4. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    Aug 16, 2010
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    The Battle of Christophsis (and thus 2008's The Clone Wars film) takes place 7 weeks after the Battle of Geonosis. Since Anakin is a Knight here, the first two seasons of Clone Wars would have to take place prior to this.

    Obi-Wan is also on the Jedi High Council in The Clone Wars animated series, which is first seen in Chapter 21. Chapter 21 is also the episode where Anakin and Padme swap droids, which presumably happens before the animated series, where Anakin has R2, and Padme has 3PO.

    Chapters 22-25 seem to be non-canon, though that's not ever been officially confirmed.
    Last edited by 07jonesj, Jan 5, 2013
  5. Now_Serving_No1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    I think a lot of folk consider TCW to take place between Chapters 21 and 22 of the micro-series. Anytime I do a chronological run through all of the Clone Wars shows I tend to watch the micro-series up to and including Chapter 21 before diving into TCW.

    I don't think we've had official confirmation from Lucasfilm that the micro-series is no longer canon. That said, for me, Anakin's story in Volume II (from chapter 22 onwards) doesn't really work anymore. Also, TCW has increasingly encroached on material from Volume I (Mon Calamari, Illum) in a way which puts a question mark over the canonicity of those segments of the micro-series, for me at least.

    Personally I would love to see the micro-series completely overwritten at some point and the Muunilinst, Ventress, Hypori and Coruscant segments from the micro-series done as TCW episodes, but I fear that this is just wishful thinking.
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  6. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    All Clone Wars media other than TCW series is non-canon (even the TCW tie-ins), even though they haven't told us.

    So just throw out everything else and figure out TCW's timeline and you're done.
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  7. Boba Frett Force Ghost

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    Oct 21, 1999
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    I think you mean "seriseseses." :D
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  8. JackG Force Ghost

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    Aug 15, 2011
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    Volume II has also yet to be rendered non-canon, only the battle of Coruscant sections of chapters 23-25
  9. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
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    That really is a great way to do it. Then watch the rest of the micro-series after all of TCW, then Ep. III and/or Ep. IV. DLT recommends!


    First time I've heard that one, details please?
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  10. JackG Force Ghost

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    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Furthermore, from wook:
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  11. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    It's hard to work out a master timeline because TCW is not over yet and Lucas has free reign to contradict any and all EU that he wants with the story ideas he passes onto Filoni. Dave and Christian Taylor have both commented that when Lucas sits down for the writers meetings that he's pretty much oblivious to the EU until Dave or one of the other writers brings it up in the meeting, and then it's Lucas' prerogative whether or not to adhere to it or steamroll it.

    So it's anyone's guess as to how much more will be retconned before the series concludes. At which point whatever is left standing will be worked into a timeline.

    But since I highly doubt the Animation department will exist only for TCW and Detours, they'll probably begin a new show in a different part of the timeline and the process will start all over again, unless Kathleen Kennedy makes a greater effort to work around established EU.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 6, 2013
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  12. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    The movies contradict the movies. The books contradict the movies. The comics contradict the books. The cartoons contradict the comics. The books contradict the cartoons. The cartoons contradict the movies. The movies contradict the comics. And around and around we go.

    It's all one big wonderful mess.=D=

    I say don't lose any sleep over it.
  13. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
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    Depending on the content of Episode VII, I think we'll see a separation of the EU and this series/future LucasFilm visual projects.
  14. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Apr 29, 2011
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    I think that's a safe bet. It's hard to imagine the ST being done in such a way that in a can be a brand new story that tip-toes around canceling out any post-Ep.VI EU at all. I think it's much more likely that they'll just ignore all that and do whatever they want.
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  15. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I'm absolutely fine with them ignoring post ROTJ EU, but if that's the case I hope they don't pretend otherwise.
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  16. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Apr 29, 2011
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    Agreed, they need to stop straddling the fence (and winding up contradicting themselves anyway).
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Jan 7, 2013
  17. Kev Snowmane Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 1, 2013
    star 2
    Well, I got at least part of what I was looking for after finding the Chee timeline...but it only covers the current series.
  18. JackG Force Ghost

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    Aug 15, 2011
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    Yeah, the only thing worse (IMO) than steamrolling the post-RotJ EU is them not explicitly telling us they're heading down that course.
  19. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    Aug 16, 2010
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    The only way they're ever going to exist together is if the ST is set 45-50 ABY - the very end of where the current EU novels are at. But I've always advocated a split anyway. It gives the visual teams more freedom to do what they want, and us readers of the EU don't have to spend hours somehow trying to piece everything together.
  20. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Is there any problem with watching the micro-series until Anakin becomes a Jedi Knight, then all of TCW, then the rest of the micro-series? I know it's not official, but I don't think there's any reason why that doesn't work.
  21. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Eh? Since when?

    LoE and volume II take place at the same time, I thought? There's no continuity issues I'm aware of. Palpatine is in his office... Palpatine is out of his office, and get's on a train with Mace... Mace leaves the train to fight Grievous... Shaak Ti and her guards take back over. The scene where Grievous enters the bunker and slays everyone happens in both... Shaak Ti catches up too late... Anything I'm missing?
  22. K'Kruhk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    There are several. The deaths of the Jedi, for example. The Clone Wars micro-series and LoE simply don't work together.
    Last edited by K'Kruhk, Jan 8, 2013
  23. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    There's significant continuity issues. Mace, Shaak Ti, and a group of Padawans, for example, are searching for Sidious in the Works in LoE when the attack begins, not in the temple.

    Anakin and Obi-Wan confront Dooku on Tythe will searching for the designer of Gunray's mechno-chair when they are called back to Coruscant.

    Palpatine destroys the rest of the force looking for his alter ego Sidious when they get to the basement of 500 Republica with a group of Geonosians.

    Mace personally duels Grevious on a maglev train.

    Roron Corobb and Foul Moudama die almost immediately into the battle.

    Volume II is considered non-canon as it was based on the early drafts of LoE. Whatever TCW comes up with will also cause LoE to be non-canon.
    Last edited by KED12345, Jan 8, 2013
  24. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 4
    Figuring out this new timeline will be tricky and it won't be solidified until the show ends. Leland Chee says the old material mostly seems to occur over the first "few months" of the war. Also, the latest TCW episode actually mentioned a battle of Sarrish which had originally occurred in a comic placed in the war's final year, so we're already past all but the last few stories like the final micro-series episodes and LoE.

    The order of events is relatively simple. You have most of the old material that features Anakin as a padawan (and stories which must directly follow them) coming first, occurring in a timespan anywhere from 1 to 12 months into the war. Then he's knighted. Then the rest of TCW happens. Comic stories like Dreadnaughts of Rendili (which feature Quinlan vos returning to the jedi order), and Obsession (with a few modifications like saying Adi didn't die) can then occur either right before the show begins, or during the show's run anywhere from seasons 1-4. Obsession might not be canon, but the rest can easily survive. The only real issue right now is figuring out what period of time the old stories now occur in. The star wars annual 2011 says Anakin was knighted in 21BBY, several months (possibly even a full year) into the war. Leland says that "months" pass before the TCW movie. The Essential Reader's guide takes the Wild Space dates (Christophsis occurs 7 weeks into the war) literally while trying to say all padawan stories still occur before that. I think that's a huge mistake, but even with that attitude, they don't decanonize the older novels, just force Anakin to be running around the galaxy literally every day for a month. Novels which do NOT feature him as a padawan (Medstar, Shatterpoint, Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Republic Commando books, ect.) then are said to occur during their original dates, meaning during the show's run offscreen. The order changed, but their canocity will not.

    As for the whole "canon vs non-canon" argument, they're still more different points of view rather than outright saying one is false. Elements from both LoE and the microseries are probably each part of the larger battle, and the new TCW take on it will probably similarly expand the battle rather than outright render the older portrayal of it impossible. (For example, just because Mace Windu is seen sitting on a droid starfighter in the microseries doesn't mean we can't see him doing other stuff during the TCW portrayal of the battle. He can be doing both during combat, just at different points and in a different order. The episodes showing it will be a single arc, or only 80 minutes of screen time for a battle that may well have lasted for a full day or more.)
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  25. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    IMO they should keep the films as unalienable canon, and perhaps keep TV as an alternate continuity to the written EU, with both supplemental to the films - the TV series originating from the animation department and the written works from licensing, both TV and novels/comics consistent as much as possible to themselves and to the films, but not necessarily to each other (don't bother).

    Maintaining continuity between television and comics just seems like a logistical nightmare which Star Trek found out early on and abandoned written works as non-canon.

    Otherwise they could treat visual media as unalienable canon and treat the written EU in the same vein as DC Comics does with the occasional "soft reboot." I.E. let the written EU run for a little bit and then reach a point in which the licensing department can keep certain stories while ruling others as being non-canon or re-envision stories. Example: if something occurs one day in the films or TV series that makes Thrawn's back story impossible, rather than throwing out the character, re-imagine him in a new story and capture the essence of the character while still taking creative liberties to adapt him to a new continuity (kind of like how Joker can be re-adapted again and again and again).

    It was one thing when ROTJ was over and Star Wars existed as entirely EU until the prequels in which case there was a hiccup that was worked out with the idea being that Star Wars would go back entirely to EU following ROTS. But with a TV series, an indefinite number of films on the way, and possibly new TV series, I think Star Wars continuity across the different media is in trouble if they don't find a way to sort things out.

    Rather than being 3 hiccups decades later after ROTJ, it's just going to be constant turmoil with material getting turned out that the licensing department has no control over and can't maintain continuity coherency.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 8, 2013
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