Clone Wars Has Clone Wars Jumped the Karkarodon?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Master_Fwiffo, Sep 23, 2011.

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  1. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    It's too early to tell. First half of Season 3 I feared this very thing; this first part of Season 4 is underwhelming as well.

    I'll just take a wait and see attitude, myself, and praise what's good when it's good.
  2. Master_Fwiffo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2001
    star 3
    I couldn't remember which episode Evil Plans was, so I went and wikied it up, and that reminded me of ANOTHER thing that bugged me about Season 3. It seemed like every episode in Season 3 that *wasn't* a three parter was an Unnecessary Prequel episode. I didn't really need to see Clone Cadets or Evil Plans or Supply Lines - when you start giving needless backstories to already good episodes, it kinda shows that you've run out of ideas.
  3. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, this is more or less how I feel. They just fail to come up with interesting, compelling stories. Here's hoping they'll prove us wrong.
  4. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I could go for some poison Gatorade right about now.
  5. sacharias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2011
    star 2
    I for one completely agree with the OP - but I'm willing to give Season 4 some more time. It's just starting off, after all.

    I really relate to this sentiment:

    Couldn't agree more. They started doing this in Season 3, the one moment that stuck out to me was the clone caught in the vent doors and cut in half (off camera). In that case, at least it was a plausible, if very disturbing misfortune.

    But "exploding knives"? There's no strategic or tactical advantage to those over a blaster - they require more skill, are more limited in supply, and they make a mess, for no purpose. As a terrorist weapon, maybe. But in a battle? Plain stupid, especially since Tamson seems perfectly happy attacking with his mouth anyway. The 'grenade knives' were a miserable excuse to darken the story.

    Gimmicks like this aren't a good sign, especially if this is how the "darkness" in the Umbara arc is to be had. I'm hoping we see a truly "dark" plot, with hard decisions and heavy consequences. But the opening episodes have lowered my expectations significantly.
  6. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    No.

    It hasn't jumped the shark.
  7. Darth_Gamek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2009
    star 6
    TCW jumped the shark with Mandalorian tea. Then they jumped back over the shark with Nightsisters and Mortis. After that, it's debatable which part of the shark the show is currently at.
  8. Lady_Skywalker87 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 3
    Oh yes, big time! For me it all went to bite the dust on S3. The Season started strong-for me at least-the episodes weren't that bad and I could actually make sense of them, I even didn't mind Padmè being once again being portrayed stupidly in Corruption or the tea plot device; I thought it was a solid episode. I had really had hoped that the crew would of learned from what they had done right in S2 story wise and by the end of Corruption I was actually optimistic about the show but then Academy came...:oops:...Not only it killed Satine by turning her into the martyr version Padmè but making Ashoka the Super Padawn ...it also made realize that Ashoka was intended to be star of the show. She's one the few charters to have any actual development surpassing even the poor Chosen One who, to me is as one denominational as his wife by now. Other than a few side characters and obi nobody seem to have stories their own and the ones that do, often get undermined in some way, killed or never seen again except as plot point add to that the redundancy, inconsistency, continuity issues ect....and it just seems really hollow despite all the apparent depth and Galactic Scope.It doesn't have enough to hold this fan girl. The only reason I watch is because its only one one of the few shows I can actually watch online and gets my mind thinking about rewrites.:p What saddens is that the creators seem to believe they are doing a fine job and we are happy when the only positive thing I can think of is that is creating a new generation of fans and its keeping SW alive, if not well in my eyes.

    PS: Before I get branded as an Ashoka Hater, please know that I did like her by the end of S2...like a few females she's been butchered in my eyes.
  9. sacharias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2011
    star 2
    Actually, since Season 3 Ahsoka has been one of the most interesting parts of TCW, to me. I thought it was pretty clear all along she's the star of the show - along with Rex, she's one of the few main characters original to TCW. So it makes sense to spend a lot of time on her. If they didn't intend for her to take that role then she should have died no later than Season 2. At this point her existence is putting tension on the ROTS storyline (even if she died at this point she'd have a massive carry-over effect on the ROTS timeline). This generates a lot of interest, and if Dave Filoni knows what's good for him he'll have something intriguing plot to explain the incongruity.

    Anyway, Ahsoka and Captain Rex are the characters that interest me, and anything dealing with them is good news as far as I'm concerned. They're solid characters that are well based in the Star Wars saga - a Jedi Padawan and a Republic clone officer - and they have a lot of potential. I for one would love to see Ahsoka make an appearance, even as a side character, in a post-TCW series, if that happens. Not sure who could cast her, though.

    Where TCW is going wrong in my opinion is trying to be too "big". And you hear that a lot now. How "big" this battle is or how "epic" this arc is. Somebody get Yoda on the phone. Size matters not, at least not in the stead of a compelling story. The Nightsisters arc I can overlook - it doesn't interest me, but witches in Star Wars? Weird and annoying, but not implausible.

    But Mortis was one epic mistake, in my opinion. And it seems to have foreshadowed the urge to create something "huge" and "epic" instead of something good. So now we have the Mon Cal arc. Big.. epic... huge... and predictable and (IMHO) lame.
  10. MarkVader1991 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2010
    star 3
    Ahsoka gets more character-development than Anakin, Obi-wan and Padme because she isn?t in the movies. The main points of the aforementioned big three?s character arcs are in the movies, thus they are currently going through a ?filler? phase. Those characters can not have any major developments because they have to stay the course. If the movies are about these characters getting from point A, to point B, to C etc, then TCW is merely B.5. Of course nothing major will happen to them.

    Ahsoka on the other hand is a blank slate, and thus her character arc in this show allows more freedom than the other big names. Ahsoka is one of the few character to develop because she is one of the few characters who aren?t experiencing a filler phase right now. The show would have been better if Ahsoka was THE main character. Forget about Anakin, Obi-wan and friends, their story has been told, multiple times at that(some would even argue BETTER,so what?s lost?).

    Make Ahsoka the main character, age her by ten years, give her the rank of Jedi knight, her own clone unit, make Rex the commander of said unit, introduce completely new allies, kill some, save some, and tell whatever stories you want from there. That?s how the show should have been done IMHO.
  11. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    This. The second half of season 3 was great, and it's not the first story arc of season 4 that's going to make me say that it's non-stop downhill from now on.
  12. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    It's actually quite the opposite. It means they have more to add to the story, which does count as creativity. Clone Cadets introduced us to 99, who became a fan-favorite, despite dying afterwards. Supply Lines introduced us to Ima-Gun Di and his heroic last stand which nevertheless resulted in failure by the end of the episode. That counts as creativity. Evil Plans on the other hand, was just an example of a bad political episode, which plagued much of the first half of Season 3.

    Honestly, I think you're using the term "Jumped the Shark" in the wrong way. To jump the shark, there has to be a dramatic decline in viewers of the show in particular. That, and the overall quality of the show goes down. TCW doesn't have this problem(yet...we'll see). It's still attracting fans and it still gets good reviews. A lot of people liked the Nightsisters and Tradoshan arc. Those are fan-favorites. There are some peeps on this thread that say the show has gone downhill but for miscellaneous reasons, like "Witches have no place in Star Wars" or "Riff Tamson is an anthropomorphic animal". Shows lose some fans or viewers over the course of it's run whatever reason, but that's pretty normal. Until the show gets to a point where there are more detractors than advocates, it's still going pretty strong.
  13. sacharias Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2011
    star 2
    I would have loved a show a long those lines. I agree, TCW spends so much time with Anakin and Obi-Wan, and they spend half the time skirting around details that would conflict with the films as a result (Anakin can't encounter Grievous, etc). If Ahsoka and a few other new characters (I would have loved to see a new take on Barriss Offee - I never liked her EU character all that much), made Rex her second-in-command, and they would have had so much more space to tell a real story with these characters.

    Then when the occasional episode that brought familiar characters like Anakin or Kenobi around, it would be a special deal, almost a 'cameo' role.

    I'm still hoping for some twist in the plot, maybe in Season 5 or 6, that pulls Ahsoka out of the loop RE the Anakin/Kenobi team, and starts to separate her character from them. I'd be surprised if Rex ended up a long with her, but if she was given her own unit, that could happen - he is the central clone of the series. But the point would be to open up a new storyline, send her far away from the scene of ROTS, giving us a new perspective as we get closer to the film.

    Because seriously, they need *something* besides a CGI version of Anakin and Obi-Wan running through the motions of ROTS, to end the series with. Ahsoka (and Rex, to a lesser extent) are obvious candidates for a new point-of-view once we get to that point. But she/they have to break off from Anakin first. While I dislike the Mortis arc, the line "...if you remain his student," may well be foreshadowing something to this effect.

    But that's a discussion for another thread.

  14. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    I don't think the show has jumped the shark, but I think it might be because I just relax and enjoy it. Sure there are some bad episodes, but I don't pay much attention to these and to me Clone Wars is generally a nice highlight to look forward to on Fridays. :)

    Look at it this way-
    Clone Wars is introducing more developed characters right now then the EU has been doing for a long time. I don't bother with the majority of the EU, but I do keep hearing on how they over-rely on the Big Three and that they killed off most of a lot of younger characters. Maybe some of the 'survivors' from this show will help pad out the later roster, and we'll get to see some of their adventures. :D

    Edit: I don't mind the 'grimdarkness.' This show has been needing it for a while. [face_skull] :p

  15. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    You don't even have to age Ahsoka by 10 years, this could have been easily solve if they gave her an original master from the start. They could of had it both ways if they wanted too, Anakin and Obi-Wan could still have their episodes, while Ahsoka and her master had theres.

  16. klooney Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2009
    star 1
    I can accept the premise that shark-headed and squid-headed humanoids are doing battle on an ocean planet. But I stop to care when the nature of the characters becomes implausible. When the squid people are all waiting on some juvenile and annoying king - I just don't buy that part of the scenario. The Jedi should have sabered the little squid when nobody was looking, and installed Ackbar as head of a new emergency government. Also, when the most powerful Jedi ever cannot force-grab his helmet from a few feet away, it breaks the illusion and the story ceases to be believable.
  17. Master_Fwiffo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2001
    star 3
    JUMPED THE KARKARODON - EXHIBIT B: The Shadow Warrior. It was like reading a laundry list of every single complaint I had last week.

    -Grimdarkness: Check. Hey, we'll impale Captain Tarples, and then we'll murder Grima Gungantounge because we're evil, and don't forget TORTURE.
    -Idiot Plot: Check. Mind Controlled Gungan Leader Declares War. Yay. Jar Jar impersonates Boss to stop it.
    -Pointless Cameo: Check. Granted, it wasn't OT, but lets bring back Captain Tarples... just so he can die? Really? For no point at all? I mean, if they were actually going to capture Grevious for some episodes and upset the Status Quo, that'd be one thing, but Noooooo we can't have that at all.

    At least Jar Jar didn't save the day by spitting on Padme. No, he just got around it by happening to look just like Boss Not-Nass.

    At least they kept this episode (thankfully) contained.

    Clone Wars had better wow me fast. It's just getting worse. Last week I was peeved. This week, I'm actually pissed they had the gall to show this.
  18. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    The "grimdark" definitely felt way out of place in Shadow Warrior(remember I loved it in the Water arc). If the battle between Grievous and the Gungans was going to be so one-sided, why kill Tarpals? It doesn't offset Grievous' lackluster performance. And of course, Tarpals' sacrifice is wasted because the reset button is hit at the end. Thanks for capturing Grievous, though.

    Rish Loo's death was very puzzling. I don't think there was any reasoning behind it, just "you die now" to make Dooku look hard. And of course torture.

    Idiot plot indeed. WE JUST SAW THE GUNGANS RUSH TO SAVE PADME!

    I feel like everyone, in universe and out, just got a little bit dumber after watching Jar Jar stumble his way into Lyonie's clothes to reveal the resemblance and then do a half-assed impersonation of Lyonie. Grievous doesn't notice Jar Jar's changing voice?

    And what was with those thirty seconds of Grievous just growling like an animal? Seriously, no words, just unintelligible snarling. Yeah, I know he was frustrated with Jar Jar and Grievous is a monster, but damn. Hit me over the head harder, please.

    I found this episode insulting as a viewer.
  19. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    I can understand being disappointed with the plot, but you fail to explain your other points. Yes, Tarpals was there. So what? He was a minor character in TPM and now a general. Why is his death bad? Same with your "Grimdarkness" point. You mentioned that Tarpals was impaled, that there was torture and that a character was murdered. We've seen this before. Why is this suddenly so bad?
  20. Master_Fwiffo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2001
    star 3
    One of the things I was complaining about last week was Pointless Old Trilogy Cameos. Admiral Akbar wasn't really needed half as much as he was featured, but he wasn't as bad as Greedo and Chewbacca showing up for no explicable reason last season. This week wasn't an Old Trilogy Cameo, but it was a TPM Cameo. Captain Tarpals (who I've always kinda liked) shows up for the sole purpose of getting killed off for something that didn't even end up mattering. There was no point for him being there. He was just there because 'Hey! He's totally a character from another Star Wars movie!'

    The Grimdarkness is unnecessary violence for the sake of having violence. They killed off Captain Tarpals for literally no reason whatsoever, just so they can claim they killed off someone important. They killed off whatshisface evil Gungan for even less of an explicable reason, presumably because Dooku is a Very Bad Guy. There wasn't a point to it at all. And then they Tortured Anakin because.... Dooku is a very bad guy? It was violent for the sake of being violent. No purpose for it whatsoever.
  21. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    Tarpals was important to the plot of the episode. He sacrificed himself to have Grievous get captured. He served a purpose. This isn't the first time a character in the EU got killed off like this. I think your problem, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you think the people at LucasFilm are trying to appease a minor part of the Star Wars fandom who even knows of a guy named Tarpals. Given who they're aiming this show at, this is unlikely the case.

    This episode, however, is just filler, and I would have preferred something related to the overall story. The Grimdarkness isn't unnecessary. Yes, Dooku killed off the Gungan because that would fit his character. He's always been portrayed as sadistic. Anakin was tortured so that Padme would comply.

    At the end of the day, a lot of these are just your opinions. Nobody else cared whether there was torture in this episode and from the way it's done, it's not even that dark. The OT has torture and that was aimed at all ages.
  22. JediCow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2005
    star 2
    I think the series has been going steadily downhill after the kick-ass Geonosis arc in season two. They've had the odd quality episode or arc here and there since Brain Invaders, but it's mostly been just this ridiculously steep drop in quality. I was actually planning on avoiding season four because I disliked season three so much, but the trailers were so awesome I couldn't not check it out. Sadly I'm of the opinion that these first three weeks have been absolutely abysmal. But man does Star Wars cut a mean trailer...

    They've always had some cringe-worthy dialogue and the occasional weak performance, but so did all six films, and the stories were so much fun I didn't care. I just attributed to the growing pains you're going to have with any series while they're finding their rhythm. But here we are three years later, and not only have they not ironed out all the little kinks, but the stories are so weak and pointless I can't overlook them anymore.

    Still a stunningly beautiful series, they're definitely improving there, but I never had a problem with the animation in season one, as I know some did. It was the best CGI to ever grace TV screens at the time, and it still holds up as being better than some current series (The Garfield Show, or the upcoming Bruce Timm Green Lantern series).

    So yeah... That's a definite yes vote for me on the Karkarodon jumping...
  23. Master_Fwiffo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2001
    star 3
    This Weeks Example of Karkarodon Jumping:

    Magic Fairy Frog Plant Lady Who Speaks In Riddles.

    I think that somehow manages to top Jar Jar saving the day by spitting on Padme's face for sheer WHA value.
  24. Master_Fwiffo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2001
    star 3
    I don't even need to point out everything that's wrong with this weeks episode. If this was anything BUT Star Wars I would have dropped this like a rock by this point. Jumping Jedi Graham Crackers, this is getting unbearable.
  25. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
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