Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Master_Fwiffo, Sep 23, 2011.
One thing I do enjoy about Clone Wars is the difference in opinion on the episodes that people have. The Mortis trilogy was the worst part of this series, awful on every level. At least, in my opinion! But some people love it, and I'm glad that my view isn't shared (just as long as the creators of the show don't try and pull something like that again, haha). And at the same time, I love episodes like Bombad Jedi and Destroy Malevolence that I know others can't stand. Not unlike the films, I guess.
Loved Mortis, liked Malevolence, hated Bombad jedi
Lol, I feel the same way about diversity of opinions. I hated Mortis and "Heroes on Both Sides" which alot of fans seem to like. But I love episodes most fans can't stand like "Mystery of 1,000 Moons" and droid episodes like "R2 Come Home", "Evil Plans", and "Mercy Mission". "Mystery of 1,000 Moons" in particular is so bad its fun.
The Blue Shadow Virus episodes are fun for me because I highly enjoy the mad scientist, but in terms of quality they're not great episodes. Just like Dooku Captured and The Gungan General have a few good points but are overall of low quality, for S1 and TCW as a whole. Each season is widely varied.
Seerow, you echo something I've been thinking for a while, shows can be fun even if they have that campiness, and sometimes because of it. A show that has a huge fanbase, Buffy, I think is adored because of its campy humor. Same could be said of Batman the Brave and the Bold. My examples are all over the map and may alienate some, but your point is valid. This stuff was not meant to be picked apart in Darth Zandalor style laundry lists, its meant to be entertainment.
^ Bullcrap. Entertainment value is no excuse for piss-poor storytelling and bad writing.
Pretty much this. It should be noted that both Buffy and BatB are liked not only for their camp, but because they are WELL WRITTEN. I actually reject the childish assertion that to enjoy something you should turn your brain off. If I have to not think to enjoy something, that something fails. When My Little Pony is a better written adventure show than friggen Star Wars, something is very wrong.
TCW just keeps getting more and more embarrassing with each passing season.
This. I hate the 'turn your brain off' argument when it comes to 'entertainment'. I enjoy intelligent presentation, good and consistent characterization, strong stories, and credible writing, thank you.
I've seen a few TCW eps and haven't been impressed. I may rent it out of mild curiosity but it's by no means ironclad that I'd take anything in it as 'cannon'. Those that do, I'm not hating. But I haven't liked the direction of SW since NJO and I'll be surprised if anything will change my mind. SW simply has lost most of it's spirit to me and the adversarial nature of the fandom isn't helping any. To me, people are allowed to like and dislike whatever they choose and accept or reject whatever they wish regarding SW. Not everything appeals to everyone. I don't think a franchise or it's fans have a right to say: 'You must accept everything with X label or you're not a true fan'. And many here do just that, even starting flame wars and launching attacks against minority view fans. That's not right. I am weary of this attitude and am heavily leaning towards essentially leaving the boards due to it. I don't want to fight anymore. I never did in the first place.
^ The herd/circle jerk mentality many have on these boards is the reason I hardly post here anymore. Its getting harder and harder to take the, "points," expressed here and there in this place seriously anymore. Of course these are the same people who play the victim card and herp DERP about vocal minorities the second this is mentioned.
True enough. I'm not playing the 'victim card' simply stating why I'm likely to become a lurker, more than anything here. The different 'factions' of SW fandom's inflammable passions, seemingly including hatred of all those that don't agree with their views in the extreme cases is taking it too far.
I wasn't speaking of you personally. More so, I was speaking of posters who go on and on about how this place is,"the last place where TRUE fans can come, free from the meanie hords of hatorz!" These same types will then insist that most people really love the PT and that the haters are just a tiny vocal minority. I'm getting worried about how fat these posters are getting from all that having their cake and eating it too.
Understood. I completely agree with you.
Yes, no one is going to take your opinion from you. And that's why the boards are active, because we all share our opinions and debate the "facts". I think there are some folks who will get really mad and throw a hissy fit either upset about the haters, or upset about what they don't like about the show. But that should not stop us from some intelligent discourse...
I suppose intelligent discourse is counter-intuitive with my turn-your-brain-off argument Well, you don't have to turn your brain off, but sometimes it helps, that's all. Because we're so passionate about Star Wars, we are more prone to find mistakes or flaws. I'm going through all of Buffy right now, and while its really great, there are definitely cheesy elements and I mean when its trying to be serious... that's why the campy moments sometimes come across better. I think its easier for me to look past them because I'm not as passionate about it as I am with Star Wars. For some of us it may be impossible to get past these flaws in our brains. The flaw that I can't get over is that in every prequel it is ridiculously obvious where they did the reshoots due to how different Ewan McGregor looks either due to a wig or a fake beard. REALLY bad. And the more you see the movie or view images, the worse it gets. Now I can't watch those scenes without thinking about that.
So, in closing, the Clone Wars will always be superior in that it will never have to paste a "fake" wig or beard on Obi-Wan!
Everyone is entitled to watch what they want to watch and watch what they don't want to watch. I've never told anyone not to watch TCW. Merely wondered why people would waste their time on something they didn't like. Life is to short to waste 30 minutes watching an episodes of something I don't like when there are other things I enjoy. This is the way forums for fandoms are. Its always circular debates about opinions. I love Creed but I can't convince anyone to like their music anymore than anyone can convince me not to like it. I don't care its a Christian rockband. I don't care Scott Stapp is a fake douchebag. We'll go in circles if we try to fight the others opinion on Creed's music. There are always goofy debates, trolls, popularity contests, and post whores. Flame wars are a two way street and lets face it, no one really understands what trolling is anymore. I don't venture out of LACWAC much but this is far from the worst forum I've been on. I've never seen what I'd call a full blown out of control flame war on here with very vicious personal attacks where there are alot of stars appearing in posts directed at the other guy. I've only ever been legitly flamed once, by one member. Sure I've been called a gusher a few times but whatever. I don't think there is anyone I can't get along with on this forum.
I was not advocating everyone to turn your brain off. It does definitely help and I've got alot of practice with it because I'm a big fan of the worst kids show ever made. No that isn't TCW I'm talking about. Thing is there are people who don't like doing that, we all like what we like, and some feel very strongly about that. Honestly there aren't many shows around anymore that don't require the use of a lame filter, even getting into more adult stuff unless I watch a good reality show like Deadliest Catch. A kids show like TCW doesn't need an excuse like Terra Nova did. I honestly like TCW because it reminds me of a 90s kids cartoon with modern 3D animation. I also like it because being Star Wars it has almost no grounding in reality which makes for perfect escapism. There can't be dumb arguments over the cellphones seeming obsolete.
I've not watch MLP:FIM yet but its on my list and I have a feeling I've been way overhyped for it by the bronies who like to come on to troll the Awesome-O South Park Forum and start flame wars by comparing it to damn South Park. Haters are just gonna hate.
Sadly because TCW contradicts canon, I feel obligated to watch it.
If it was non canon or something that doesn't affect the current timeline, I wouldn't bother watching it.
And I respect that opinion and we can still be friends GG. =P\
Honestly I think casual fans like myself enjoy TCW more. I've gotten about 4 people from work and a couple of my roommates friends into TCW. And I have created threads for TCW on a couple non SW forums I hang out on where we have mostly positive discussions about the episodes. This show can't be so bad if its so easy to get people into it and start discussion. Hell I accidently ended up with a party in my room the night "The General" aired.
I'm glad we're all respecting each other in this thread.
My point with the theme of the thread in mind (this series has jumped the Karkarodon), is that, I would say it's universal agreement that the animation has improved from the (ugh) film to S4.
Whereas we're more all over the map when it comes to which episodes we like or dislike, or the quality of writing. Some people just say they're not bothered by a bad script if the episode is exciting, and that's totally cool. I wish I was like that.
I believe that, with most shows, it takes the writing crew and actors some time to know the characters and the plot and the strengths and weaknesses of the show. As a general rule, I would guess that most TV shows aren't in their "prime" until Season 2 or 3, and usually stay that way for a couple of years, before a general decline sets in, which really might just be (a) done most of the good storylines, and (b) audience saturation with the characters/plots.
But in my mind, it's telling that in the first part of the S4 season finale, there was a high number of negative reviews, even from posters who I would say would rate a mediocre episode as 7/10 or 8/10.
Every show has ups and downs over the season (remember BSG's Black Market? Ugh.), but you save your best material for the premiere and finale (and sweeps).
If Brothers is the best they can do, the show has indeed jumped the shark.
To add to another point from earlier pertaining to S1 getting a pass despite having its own lesser episodes. This is true, but people forget that most first seasons in a series are of varied quality. TCW was still finding itself and many understood that. Especially considering the fact that the show gradually improved. In fact, researching the series one notes that the shows decline didn't truly begin until mid season 2 and 3, when GL started calling the shots and got more involved.
This season overall I think has been poor, there have been some good episodes, notably Krell, but overall - like Garth said - usually a show should start out strong, finish with a bang, and put the weaker (with "weak" not meaning "bad" necessarily) episodes somewhere in the middle. I think Krell would have been better served as the premiere, and Maul would have been better served in a position towards the end of the season, but not the finale.
Instead we got the Mon Cala arc first, which for me was "meh," then a string of bad-OK episodes up until Krell, then back to OK (though Bounty surprised me in how much I liked it), then we get to Brothers and while I really don't hate the concept like a lot of other people do, I cannot deny that the execution, with all the wasted time and pointless cameos, etc. was just bad. Hopefully Revenge can turn that around, and I'll reserve my judgement until I see it, but something tells me that it's just going to be a "wow" episode filled with lightsaber fights, with any actual character development waiting til next season, at which point will be left with Maul being brought back to do more of the same, until proven otherwise in the Fall.
Also, with it generally being a good idea to end a season with a bit of a cliffhanger, I feel that TCW sucks at following up on them. Ziro gets broken out during season 1; then nothing happens with him til season 3; and season 2 ends with Boba Fett getting arrested, but nothing happened til season 4; and season 3 ends with Anakin getting past some of his attachment issues, but this season hasn't built on that at all and actually has been a step back from that.
Actually TCW is not running during sweeps. Sweeps was back in February. The next sweep isn't until April. "Brothers" got 1.99 million viewers even against heavy competition and crappy scheduling. The show line up in the block last Friday night and this coming Friday is not conductive to allow ratings to reach their full potential. I also noticed CN sold out all of its commercial slots for TCW as well as during the 7:30pm showing of NINJAGO despite being a rerun. I can tell that by the fact there was not a single infomercial. Infomercials are pretty much place holders when slots don't sell. Lots of infomercials is a sign a show is doing bad. I'm sure its going to be the same story with "Revenge" as far as commercial breaks filling up. It would seem far as CN is concerned the season is ending with a bang.
Its only possible to say a TV show has jumped the shark in retrospective. Not by the opinions of the majority of a forum that an episode is bad. Even so many TV shows continue on and continue to perform well long after the jump point is reached. Rugrats jumped the shark 3 seperate times and still aired 172 episodes plus 3 movies and a 55 episode spinoff.
Well, Lucas has been there since the beginning. I see it being more of the "creative team" that's the problem and Lucas does factor in. I will say a change is needed in that regard (not Lucas, the creative team), but some might disagree. Garth, I think that TCW was in its prime and high season ratings during its first season then just collapsed gradually as the series moved on. I think since some people knew that a new Star Wars television show was coming out, and others only knew that a "Star Wars show" in general was coming out, they wanted to see what it was about and they moved on after the first season.
The show going all over the place, random dark moments, can't figure out what it wants to do after four seasons says something. I'm not sure what they want to accomplish after all of that. The writing in general is falling as the animation is improving. I can agree that the animation has improved since season one, but the mediocre to bad storytelling just masks everything for me. Krell was only the arc I liked in season four and I did skip only the two droids and Friend in Need (I eventually saw it later on) this season. I wish they would just focus on the war, like Krell, instead of doing things they shouldn't be doing. Revive Maul? Really?