Has Del-Rey Made A Serious Mistake?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Grand Admiral Wettengel, Oct 16, 2000.

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  1. Stilgar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 1
    After reading the messages on the chances for improving NJO, I have comments to make in reply to all of them together. While there seems to be general agreement that BP has been a reasonably good novel, I am not sure how many people are claiming that it is brilliant. However good BP is, I think more like Bror Jace on this one, we are only talking ONLY about a single novel here - not enough to fix the series by itself (and Chewie is still dead). One thing that BP maybe taken as is that the series CAN be written in a better way, but the quality HAS TO keep on happening with the following books, as by itself one good novel does not fix a bad series.

    I have to say that I strongly disagree about what Jedi Ben thinks a SW story can be about. SW DEFINITELY DOES NOT HAVE TO BE about yet another enemy or war. In fact the Republic faces yet another threat has been one of the biggest problems with the Bantam line of SW novels - a repetitive plot which started making the stories boring. So what do we get with NJO which is supposed to have been something new and fresh?! We get the same TIRED and OLD plot idea, YET another enemy. I find it hard to understand how someone can make a story requirement out of the biggest PLOT PROBLEM SW has :). So, what else could SW be about? Just look at things like the trilogy covering Han?s life, or the short story collection about just any aspect of the SW galaxy. There are literaly countless possibilities for what a good SW story could be about. For example, HOW MANY of you would like to see a trilogy (or more) of novels covering what Mara did as an Emperor?s Hand? Or a story about Thrawn, the Empire, and the Unknown Regions? LOL Of course something like this would be a favourite of EVERY fan! So why are we stuck with NJO crap?! What about a whole set of novels showing how the new Jedi deal with the Republic?s problems? No major enemies threatening the whole galaxy, just a Jedi or more dealing with some local trouble; still gives you a conflict and a problem to solve. What about all these other countless details of SW galaxy we would liek to learn about as ideas for new novels? Smuggler stories. Hutt adventures. Lando investment schemes. Exploration of some unknown parts of space. Coruscant politics, and on, and on... Personally I would just scrap the whole idea of yet another invasion - and wrap up the story of the Vong in the next novel or two.

    Ok. Basically everyone says that they keep on reading because things have not yet gotten sufficiently bad with the NJO for them to drop it, and there is still hope for improvement. So, how bad things have to get before people will stop reading the NJO novels? Are you prepared to set yourself a limit of what you will accept from NJO, and drop the series if that limit is crossed? Also what will you do even if the NJO keeps on going as it has so far with no appreciable improvement? How long are you prepared to wait before you say that enough is enough and ?I am not going to put up any longer with this?, and stop reading and supporting the NJO through paying for it?

    Admiral, I have pointed out the silliness of the whole moon scenario in this thread because some people here were talking as if it was an acceptable scientific fact after someone pointed out that moons fall out of orbit (without mentioning details). BTW, how would you like some good novel or novels with Imperial main characters covering what the Empire did in place of the NJO?

    CoK, I was thinking more laong the lines of what is likely to happen. You point out what has to be done with NJO. Do you think that TPTB supervising the series will do any of it though? Exactly the same comment applies to aleja.

    Also, no one seems to have picked up on my question as to whether we want (and buy and read) SW novels set outside of the NJO at this point in time. I would want to see at least some single novels or even dulogies/trilogies not connected with the NJO in ADDITION to the NJO novels. Fill out details about the SW galaxy in stories set throughout any time period and not restricted to a singl
  2. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    Rise my friend.

    There is a trend that I see as disturbing.

    BP - Jacen book
    Keyes duology - Anakin books
    Star by Star
    Elaine Cunningham - Jaina book

    There's too much emphasis on the Solo brats. We'll be reading more stuff about them accomplishing some sort of brilliant feats and pretty much saving the galaxy from several Vong threats.

    The uberkinden shall make everything right again. The uberkinden Anakin shall defend Yavin IV against the Vong; if Luke and other prominent Jedi aren't there to play prominent roles in the defense of Yavin IV, I'm not even going to bother reading Keyes' duology. The uberkinden Jaina shall fly around in her X-Wing and be an unstoppable juggernaut, possibly even devising new tactics to deal with corralskippers and dovin basals. Why must we have books that center on them?

    I'm all for having a continuneous story-arc, but I am uncomfortable with these books that only highlight small groups of characters because if you don't like the characters chosen to be the stars of a particular novel, the chances of you liking the book is slim.

    Bantam didn't do this. With Bantam there was a good micture of characters so if you didn't like a particular character, chances are there would be characters featured in the book you would like. Not so with the NJO.

    You like Kyp Durron? Well so far it seems you could forget him being cast in a positive light because he has dared to defy the resident Force know-it-all: Luke Skywalker, who has turned into Yoda--a close-minded oaf.

    Happen to be a fan of the Empire? Judging from the fact that Imperial involvement at Ithor was not mentioned in the brief plot synopsis in BP, I think that what started out as possibly a close corroboration between the NR and Empire in Ruin will not come to pass and that the Empire is just going to be forgotten.

    Happen to be a fan of Luke, Leia, Mara and/or Han? You see--they're going to be getting less and less space to make room for the emergence of the insufferable uberkinden.

    Happen to be a fan of Corran Horn? Won't be reading about him unless Stackpole returns.
  3. The Gatherer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 6
    Yes, I am also concerned about the focus the Solo children are getting. Why does a book need to focus on one central character anyway?
  4. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    And let us not forget about the fact that there's yet ANOTHER Jacen book being planned.
  5. The Gatherer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 6
    I actually don't mind the exploration of his character, but I think someone else 'needs to have their turn.'
  6. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    The Gatherer...
    "Why does a book need to focus on one central character anyway?"

    I think it's unreasonable to require the extremes - on one extreme is Vector Prime, with something like 9 or 10 protagonists and a number of antagonists all dueling for "screen-time." The other extreme is a book focusing on only one central character.

    In NJO, we have had both. IMO, it is extremely difficult to have a full story when you have a number of protagonists doing different things. Note, "group" stories tend to work well if all of the protagonists are bunched together doing the same thing (take any number of fantasy books like Dragonlance as an example). However, in Star Wars, we very nearly have each main doing a different thing with perhaps groups of maybe two, three at the most.

    While there is room to do a full story with more than one character, the problems tend to multiply the more characters are added. If the length of the book is fixed, then it starts to become impossible to do a full multi-character story and be successful, where you have multiple climaxes, multiple journies, multiple character advancement.

    I think since NJO is seen as one big 19-part story, then it's reasonable to concentrate on a character in his/her own book every now and then sort of like one would use a chapter within a book to spotlight on a character. I think that's the best way to view a NJO novel - as a sort of chapter within the larger "NJO Book."
  7. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    I want to read complete books; not chapters.

    "his/her own book every now and then"

    After Keyes' duology is out, Anakin will have two. With Cunningham's book, Jaina will have one. Jacen had one with BP and he will have another as far as we can see.

    That's 5 books focusing on the Solo vermin.

    5
    ----= 0.263 * 100 = 26.3%
    19

    One quarter of the NJO will be about the insufferable Solo brats THUS FAR. And they'll probably be more books about them down the line. May very well be able to take 33% or more of the NJO and subtitle it: The Adventures of the Solo Kids
  8. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Yep - it seems they are going to be the heart of the next generation. In fact, once the Skywalker kid comes of age, we can assume that the Solo/Skywalkers will account for the majority (min 75%) of all Star Wars stories.

    Gee, who would ever have thought something like that is possible if you watch the movies - stories all about Solos and Skywalkers, bah. :p

    A quarter of the "screen-time" actually seems low for collective main chaarcters of a series.
  9. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    But it isn't like the current generation is just barely clinging to life.

    But then the killing off of main characters serves the twisted aims of the committee which developed the NJO perfectly. Their aim is to FORCE the Solo brats down our collective throats through attrition.
  10. Dewlanna Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 4
    I think we can see what age group DR is targeting.

    Too bad that age group seems to like the prequel books better.
  11. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    GAW...
    "But it isn't like the current generation is just barely clinging to life.

    But then the killing off of main characters serves the twisted aims of the committee which developed the NJO perfectly. Their aim is to FORCE the Solo brats down our collective throats through attrition."

    I have to agree to a point. However, Del Rey had their hands tied to some degree by the very nature of the animal they're dealing with. That is, Star Wars is about the heroic journey which the heroes take in fighting evil. That journey starts young and goes from there. In fact, ANH, ESB and ROTJ all had the character relatively young - only slightly older than Jacen, Jaina and Anakin are now. While the PT seems to start younger, it looks to cover a wider spread.

    In any case, we could not learn about the exploits of the Solos at the prime "SW Age" (say 18 +/-), without having their parents not be in the picture. Their ages are set, so therefore either Del Rey ignore them (keep them out of the picture) or kill them off. Fundamentally, neither is the best solution. It would be much easier had Han/Leia been in Luke/Mara's situation of having the kids at a rather old age. That way, once their kid(s) get to the "SW Age," they will virtually be too old to reasonably dodge blaster bolts and go saber-slinging - that is if they even survive beyond NJO. In such a way, the older characters don't have to be forced out of the picture, they can be transitioned naturally. ;)

    Some other ways Del Rey could have handled things - fast-forward another 10 years beyond current NJO setting for NJO. They don't even have to have mains appear, but then they'd be something like near their '30's. And it would also exacerbate the problem of not having _ANY_ of the traditional mains appearing.

    IMO, they wanted to capture the feel of Luke & Leia's characters from the OT - and that means setting it when they did.

    It also means that by having a "transition" between the old and the new, they sort of have to go the route they did to some degree.

    Remember, the death threat hasn't lived up to the hype. In six books, only one main character has died and the "SW Hero Invulnerability" is definitely in full-force as seen in characters like Mara who unrealistically live despite all other past-infections killing their host, etc. The Chewie death looks to be solely a marketing plan and not a fundamental trend of NJO.

    The minor characters don't count, since we've always had named minors like Dak, etc bite it all throughout Star Wars history.
  12. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    I for one have not read any YJK or JJK books, nor do I have any desire to; I would imagine that few readers of the EU would have read those novels since they are aimed at a lower age bracket.

    That having been said, for most EU readers, the NJO marks the first time that the Solo brats are being portrayed as major protagonists. (I know there was Crystal Star, but they were how old in that again? Five? Eight?)

    For most readers this is their first major exposure to the juvenile Solo infestation; to top it all off, these new characters (in terms of previous exposure in the "adult" EU) are suddenly moving into the fore-front without any warning and in some cases they are portrayed as more intelligent than their elders--something that strikes me as inexplicable. Like when Jaina suggested the entire battleplan for fighting the Vong on Dantooine; it would have been more fitting for Kre'Frey and Gavin to have discussed things themselves and arrived at that conclusion. It doesn't make sense for Jaina to have been the only one who could have grasped that, especially since she has no knowledge of military tactics whatsoever.

    The Wonder Twins and their brother are being entrusted with a lot more responsibility than their older relatives ever had. Jacen and Anakin having been pretty much in charge of Centerpoint would be like Mara having been in Tarkin's place on the Death Star. Neither Luke, Leia, Mara, or Han had ever been entrusted with such an awesome responsibility.

    Yes, Luke destroyed the first Death Star, but that was NOT the plan. That task was left to the Y-Wings, while the X-Wings provided escort and fire suppression of turbolaser batteries and what not.

    Anakin and Jacen are sent to Centerpoint station intentionally. Certainly if Luke had objected to Jacen going, he could have arranged things so Jacen would have something to do. This would be like Truman leaving the decision of whether or not to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki to a panel of high school students.

    For these kids to be entrusted with such awesome responsibility at their ages is absolutely incomprehensible.


    "In any case, we could not learn about the exploits of the Solos at the prime "SW Age" (say 18 +/-), without having their parents not be in the picture. Their ages are set, so therefore either Del Rey ignore them (keep them out of the picture) or kill them off. Fundamentally, neither is the best solution."

    I'm a bit unclear as to what you mean here. Do you mean that the brats should be ignored/kill-off or Han and Leia?


    "It would be much easier had Han/Leia been in Luke/Mara's situation of having the kids at a rather old age. That way, once their kid(s) get to the "SW Age," they will virtually be too old to reasonably dodge blaster bolts and go saber-slinging - that is if they even survive beyond NJO. In such a way, the older characters don't have to be forced out of the picture, they can be transitioned naturally."

    I agree.

    So if Luke, Mara, Han and Leia aren't going to die, how are they going to be transitioned out? Han I could understand since he isn't Force-sensitive; however, the other three ARE and that means that the Force would provide them with an added edge that Han wouldn't have.

    "The Chewie death looks to be solely a marketing plan and not a fundamental trend of NJO."

    My feeling since Onslaught. :)
  13. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    GAW...
    "Their ages are set, so therefore either Del Rey ignore them (keep them out of the picture) or kill them off. Fundamentally, neither is the best solution."

    I'm a bit unclear as to what you mean here. Do you mean that the brats should be ignored/kill-off or Han and Leia?"

    Sorry...
    Dang "stream-of-consciousness" feel of the internet. :)

    It wasn't too clear...
    Their [Jacen, Jaina, Anakin] ages are set, so therefore either Del Rey ignore them [Luke, Han, Leia, etc.] (keep them out of the picture) or kill them off.

    We could have some sort of dynamic ret-con with respect to their ages like has been done with Mara, but IMO that's just plain bad. That is, Del Rey could've set NJO 20 years after HoT and said that Jacen and Jaina are 20 and Anakin is 18. Old readers would scratch their heads and go "huh" while new (Del Rey) readers wouldn't know any better. That has been done in Star Wars and the EU already, just not as blatantly obvious.

    But, my point was that no matter what, Han/Leia had their kids when they did, and that means they are still of age to kick butt. They cannot reasonably exist "offscreen" living a life of bliss, since that's certainly not in line with eiher of their characters. I guess my point was that for the Soloids to be of an interesting age, their parents will be of age to be right in the thick of it with them. Therefore, death and major kriffing of their characters is probably one of the natural ways out for a transition.
  14. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    Leia, Luke, Han, Mara, etc. earned their positions because of their ability not because of their surnames or the fact that they're Jedi. The Solo kids are just riding out the coat-tails of their relatives which seriously irks me since there are plenty of other characters who could fill their roles and done so in a much more realistic fashion.

    Luke, Han and Leia cannot be ignored; however, I certainly believe the brats could be. They could just be on Yavin IV along with all the other juvenile Jedi. They could be playing with all their little Jedi friends.

  15. ShugNinx123 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 1
    "The Chewie death looks to be solely a marketing plan
    and not a fundamental trend of NJO."

    wow ghenghis it looks like you criticizing del rey and Bob salvatore who firmly said that Chewie's death was not a marketing plan and people who think that are really cynical. So you must be stopping del rey editors from coming here and Bob salvatore from coming back and posting here thanks to your critisism of things you just can't understand.

    Or maybe you were just kidding in the Elaine Cunningham thread.
  16. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    ShugNinx...
    "wow ghenghis it looks like you criticizing del rey and Bob salvatore who firmly said that Chewie's death was not a marketing plan and people who think that are really cynical."

    There was absolutely no criticism involved in my words - meant or implied. I was not making any pro or con judgements about the "death sentance" - merely pointing out that it doesn't seem to be a trend. It has been hyped by the fan base more than anything else - and the NJO doesn't seem to be living up to such hype regarding the deaths of characters - for good or bad.

    Perhaps if you didn't spend so much time trying to find attacks where there isn't any, then people won't be scared off. But I guess it's cool if you like doing it.

    "Or maybe you were just kidding in the Elaine Cunningham thread."

    No, I was completely serious. Authors have actually been subjected to outright flaming in these forums. I guess if you don't have any problems with that, that's cool too.
  17. ShugNinx123 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 1
    Well Bob salvatore said in an interview that calling Chewie's death a marketing stunt was not very nice, so Im just trying to show that flames and criticism are inthe eyes of the beholder. Just because you don't think you are making a criticism doesnt mean others dont see it that way.

    SO maybe you should take your own advice. I wish you would.
  18. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    ShugNinx...
    "Well Bob salvatore said in an interview that calling Chewie's death a marketing stunt was not very nice, so Im just trying to show that flames and criticism are inthe eyes of the beholder."

    Correct, which is why I said that Chewie's death looked to be one, not that it was one. There's a difference between the two that you failed to understand.

    "Just because you don't think you are making a criticism doesnt mean others dont see it that way."

    Then the fault is with those people who have misunderstood or confused "looks to be" with "is." In any case, the fact that something is a marketing "plan" is _VASTLY_ different than being a marketing "stunt." Plan was my wording, stunt being yours and Salvatore's carrying negative connotations. Having a marketing plan is usually associated with good business practices, whereas pulling "stunt" is usually bad.

    You misunderstood and are attacking something that is just not there - plain and simple.
  19. ShugNinx123 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 1
    hey bro you can pick on my use of the word stunt all you want but it doesnt hide the fact that what you originally said was taken by del rey and Bob Salvatore to be a flame at Vector Prime when other people said it.

    But i really didnt expect any other respnse from you since when you are backed into a corner you either say it is because the other person doesnt understand (which is a flame according to the JC rules, you can't call a person names and personally attack there intelligence, you can only disagree with their opinion) or else you say that you never really meant what you wrote because it wasnt a personal opinion.

    whatever dude.

    later.
  20. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    ShugNinx...
    "hey bro you can pick on my use of the word stunt all you want..."

    I'm not picking on it, I'm saying it's completely different from what I said. That is, you said "stunt" which RAS called negative. I said "plan" which to my knowledge doesn't carry any inherent negativity or more importantly was never addressed by RAS at all.

    "...but it doesnt hide the fact that what you originally said was taken by del rey and Bob Salvatore to be a flame at Vector Prime when other people said it."

    No, what you said was taken as an attack - "stunt.". I never said such a thing. What I said wasn't an attack because it's not, nor ever was meant to be so. That is, neither RAS or the LFL editors have said anything about their marketing plan being negative. That's something you've tried to pin on it. In fact, Shelly Shapiro specifically addresses how the "death threat" is a part of what Del Rey is doing with the NJO. That is, it's part of the "plan" not a "stunt."

    "But i really didnt expect any other respnse from you since when you are backed into a corner..."

    I actually don't expect any other response from you than trying to attack things that just aren't there. Not only that, but you had to fundamentally change my words to get anywhere near the meaning you're trying to prove.

    That's cool if you like doing such things. But, please refrain from doing it here. :)

    Now, if we're all done with Shug's little "plan" ;) then can we get back to GAW's renewed discussion - it's exceeded the 500 mark. Who would have thought that.
  21. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    Thank you for that little segue, Ghengis.

    To quote everyone's favorite Grand Moff: "This bickering is pointless."

    I certainly wasn't expecting it to exceed the 500 mark--but we still have a ways to go to catch up with KT. :)

    And the ball's in your court, Ghengis. Care to reply to my last post?

    Of course anyone else can feel free to jump in too.
  22. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Hmmm...
    "Leia, Luke, Han, Mara, etc."

    Okay, I'll agree that Leia, Luke & Han, etc. _EARNED_ their positions. However, I take issue with including other classes of characters different from them. But, it's probably a whole complete discussion left for another time.

    "...positions because of their ability not because of their surnames or the fact that they're Jedi."

    I don't think that's fair to say. Fundamentally, in rl (as opposed to within-universe), Luke, Leia, Han, Mara, etc. all earned their positions for various reasons other than their ability. Luke, Han, Leia and some others earned their position because of their ties to the movies. Mara earned it because her creator managed to finegel a deal early on insuring her future (executive summary of events). Others earned their positions because they're an "author's pet." There's a whole bunch of reasons, the least of which IMO is because they earned it for some of them. I don't think one can sever the rl reason for their position from their in-universe reason for their position.

    "The Solo kids are just riding out the coat-tails of their relatives which seriously irks me since there are plenty of other characters who could fill their roles and done so in a much more realistic fashion."

    However, the names are a Star Wars franchsie - people recognize them. That goes for whether you've been a fan for 25 years or one year. You'll know a Solo or a Skywalker if you're reading Star Wars. I would say to remove that recognition is to doom the franchise. That is, it doesn't matter _WHO_ the new characters are, you'll need at least some continuity between the old and the new. A strong continuity tie is a link seen in the movies. I submit the kids of Ackbar, Wedge or relatives of Mon Mothma could be interesting - but they do not carry the power of a Solo/Skywalker name.

    Do we agree on that point - generally within the next generation, it's probably a good thing to have a Solo/Skywalker link.

    Now, that is fundamentally different from the specific characters chosen to bear the name. Could Jacen, Jaina and Anakin all have been handled differently over their lifetimes? IMO they probably could have been handled...better.

    "Luke, Han and Leia cannot be ignored; however, I certainly believe the brats could be. They could just be on Yavin IV along with all the other juvenile Jedi. They could be playing with all their little Jedi friends."

    But, I believe that's one of the whole reasons for NJO (and successive products, timewise) - to make it that they cannot be ignored. Out with the old and in with the new.

    Personally, I find no flaw with that logic on a conceptual level - set the story in the future with a new generation. While I do have a problem with it being carried now at this point in time (I'd much rather they did so in the future after I read SW less) After all, we know people die of old age. So, they will be out of the picture _SOMETIME_ For some of them, it looks like that sometime is now (some 25 years after ANH). However, I submit that in something like Star Wars, they are never truly "dead" or out of the picture. A story can be set nearly anytime using anybody. For example, we've had Chewie stories "after" his death - they simply were flashbacks.

    For example, is it reasonable to have a Tales of the Future Jedi, set 4,000 years after ANH and have Luke, Leia, Han appear in the flesh (no clones, etc.) I don't think so. I think people would tend to wonder why they weren't dead at that point.

    So, if we can agree that the time-setting of NJO is reasonable ("fast-forward" is a tried and true literary method seen in anything from TTT to other stories, to different genres), then we can move from there. Put another way, I think we can agree that all of them are dead at some point in the "future." Del Rey has simply decided to make that "future" the present.

    If the time setting is reasonable, then we naturally come up against the transition problem. How would you handle it? Don't transition at all and we can read about Luk
  23. CountJared Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2000
    star 3
    The Solo kids seem to be this weeks favorite whipping boys so I thought I would chime in with my two cents.

    I read the YJK books awhile back. (i was too old for them, but how can one resist a new star wars book?) For the most part I enjoyed them. I liked them for what they were. The best thing about them was the characterizations of Jacen and Jaina. I even liked the subtle hints of Anakin (serious and earnest, the little hints that there might be trouble between Anakin and Jacen over Tenel Ka later down the road). Jacen was the sensitive one and Jaina the outgoing one. I also liked their cast of characters.

    I'll admit that I stopped reading the series with the first book of that last 3-book arc. Wasn't very appealing to me. It really peaked with the Diversity Alliance story (which I look back on fondly. KJA did something good)

    But with Vector Prime, we suddenly had three new characters that we had never met and were decidedly unlikable. Jacen became a preachy whiner, Jaina became a- well she became constantly irritable, and Anakin had a subtle trace of arrogance. And why were they all mad at eachother? No, I didn't like them at all. Stackpole brought them back into a positive light with his duology, but Luceno kind of killed them in JE. Balance Point might have redeemed Jacen, but it left Anakin and Jaina almost worse off then before. Once again, Jaina is in a perpetually foul mood, and Anakin is the Uber Jedi.

    So in closing, I can understand why people hate the Solo kids in the NJO. Their track record has been spotty at best. They're downright annoying at worst.

  24. loontexas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    star 2
    im not very fond of the solos myself, but not for reasons of there personalities (there teens for gods sake, younger than even luke and leia were in ANH).


    im tired of the spotlight being on them. del rey got the picture, and has now slowly began taking the spotlight off luke, not totally, but enough so we can have breating room. now they put it all on the solos. there too different and too immature to have this much attention. its like were all reading slightly older episodes of "young jedi knights".


    the one guy that we all wanted to see, and were looking foward to more of, corran, now has to take the backseat. del rey should of seen that they had a gold coin in corran with "i,jedi", and at least begun to delve off into stories tha focus on him, but nope. they keep it on the solo kids and there parents.


    i think we all want to see more of this war from a different perspective. now, im no fan of kyp durron and his faction, but at last there giving us something to look foward to that we cant figure out in 3 guesses.



    let the solos rest, as you have with the skywalkers. for now at least. we need to see some of the other characters blossom. they let landos character fade awa, they killed chewy, and we havent gotten much focus on wedge, pelleon, soontir, or even some of the other unnamed jedi on both sides. no1 is buying this "vong threat" because were only getting it from the perspectives of 3, or at most, 5 people. the solo family. in order for us to get into the series, we need to see it from all angles, not just from the big hero "good guys".









  25. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    Ghengis,

    Yes, I do believe that that is a discussion left for another time, since your comments would involve discussing the entire '90s EU in search of "MarySueism," but that idn't the purpose of this thread. My aim is to foster discussion about the overrall strategy of the NJO.

    I pretty much agree with all of your other comments. You're absolutely right about the difficulty of separating in-universe and RL reasons for characters being in the positions they're in, and there's a good deal of Marysueism in the EU; most notably exemplified by the CCG cards of two EU characters, but that is beyond the scope of this thread and I welcome you to bring your "MarySue" topic back up to the top.

    I agree with you about the need for a Skywalker or a Solo. Fortunately, Mara is pregnant, so there is hope that Skycrawler can save the galaxy from the dreaded Solo uberkinden.

    Of course they could have been handled better. These brats have no respect for any of their elders--Luke, Leia, Han, etc, etc, etc. Jacen thinks he knows more about the Force than his uncle; that's what gets under my skin most of all. Luke has a lot more experience with the Force than that little twirp.

    A transition is inevitable, but I believe it is happening too early for the most part. The only character I can see handling less action would be those who aren't Force-sensitive (Han, Wedge, Tycho, Lando, etc.) and are getting on in years, so I wouldn't be expecting them to do too much hands-on stuff. But that doesn't hold true for the characters who are Force-sensitive. For instance, Luke could probably live to be as old as Yoda.

    Regarding spotlights:

    This is what I enjoyed so much about Ruin. We got to see the Hapan and Imperial POVs. Everything else we saw up to that point and since Ruin is through Luke-skywalker tinted glasses since he has totally converted his family and adherents into viewing everything through his worldview. So instead of seeing Kyp's position as logical and reasonable, we see it through Corran and Mara's POV--the POVs of two partial participants and strong Luke-loyalists. So it shouldn't be any surprise that we see the dominant POV: Kyp's a fool.

    I want to see this war through other eyes: through Imperial eyes, Kyp's eyes, Hapan eyes.
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