PT Has Episode II dethroned Episode I as the worst entry?.

I liked those scenes too, and wish they could have been left in. I liked how it drove home the point (only subtly hinted at in the finished film) that Padme would have retired and started a family by now had she not been called back into service. It goes some ways in explaining why she so quickly latches onto Anakin, this boy she hasn't seen in ten years, but who she still feels a strange connection to. But I'm not sure where those scenes would have fit, given that there's not much I would cut out of the film in favor of them.

Well, actually....



And don't worry, I wouldn't dream of dissing the X-wing. I love the X-wings just as much as I love the Naboo starfighters. And I love them all the more because they're so different from each other!

 

Completely agreed. As a child, while I didn't care for TPM like I did the OT, I didn't dislike it the same way I did AOTC. That was the first time I saw a movie in the theaters where I realized that I actually did not like what I saw.

 

TPM>ROTS>>>>>>>AOTC

 

Ummm no, that honor would go to Return of the Jedi with its quickly cobbled together conclusion , and horrific acting performances from Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher. Ford in particular really looks like he doesn't want to be anywhere near this movie and is simply dialing in his performance.

Still love it, but it is by far (to me anyway) the weakest entry in the Saga.


Yancy

 

It varies from person to person. IMO Empire is clearly the worst (even though I do enjoy it).

 

I think Empire is worst as well. Why the face?

 

I genuinely thought it was trolling.

The film consistently rated as one of the best ever made (not just in the SW franchise) is your worst. I think that warrants a quizzical eyebrow

 

Hence the quizzical eyebrow. What I really wanted to say is not forum friendly Plus I am in enemy territory i.e. the PT forum, so I only have myself to blame

 

I share Solo77's face.This is new to me and I go back to the afsw newsgroup.

I respect and love most objectivity and differing opinions or as Darkslayer put it, "varies from person to person". Pretty much sums up every opinion in every thread. This particular opinion though is taking some getting used to.

 

That's the problem with opinions, everyone's got one!

 

How is that bad? Some not holding something in the same light doesn't mean anyone's wrong. I hear my fave SW films dissed all the time they are still my faves.

 

Nothing wrong with that. That is genuinely the first time that I've heard someone (let alone 2 people) saying that Empire is their least favourite SW film.

 

It's not my least favorite, but I can see why some feel that way. I certainly don't consider ESB one of the greatest films ever made.

 

The Empire Strikes Back is, IMHO, the best sequel in its genre.

I used to be very critical of the PT in general, that is until Oct. 30th 2012. The announcement of the ST opened my eyes to the possibilities left within the saga. I should have realized it sooner given that Lucas works exclusively within the Three Act Structure. Personally I think it wiser to judge from the whole rather than the parts and I have a good feeling about this. The OT and the PT, in particular, have an opportunity to become much deeper and richer as a result of the presentation of its conclusion. The wider our view the closer to Lucas's vision. Think BIG.

But considering the parts to answer the OP's question I've become very interested in The Phantom Menace since the announcement of the ST and I can see how its open ends would make a compelling part of the ST story. Attack of the Clones, athough a well constructed story, has some warts and is not nearly as open as The Phantom Menace. That is, the Sifo-Dyas mystery concluded in TCW S6. Revenge of the Sith has given us the Legend of Darth Plagueis the Wise, a mystery surrounding Padme's death and the Netherworld of the Force. Open ended oddities perhaps resolved by the sequels.

I should say that The Phantom Menace novelization, as well as the 2012 Darth Plagueis novel has greatly added to the richness of the film as well as the PT and the Saga as a whole (I know it's non-canon).

 

I would place it quite high.

That about fits -- in my opinion.

Very earnest.

And I am, indeed, waiting to see what's done, before crowing about it much too much in advance.

On the other hand, a lot of what has been revealed about Episode VII, thus far, in my opinion, has been, well... average. Merely average.

 

TPM should have started the clone wars. Then, ROTS could have been split into two movies

The Phantom Menace is disappointing because it comes after years of hype and 3 great movies. But if you look at TPM and AOTC by themselves, Phantom comes out on top, easily. Sure, TPM has this “kiddie” feel, but I’ve seen plently kids movies that were a lot better than movies for adults.

The Phantom Menace is the story of how Anakin became Anakin Skywalker the jedi knight that Ben told Luke about. Episode III is the story of how that Anakin Skywalker the jedi knight fell to become Darth Vader.

The TPM is how Sidious sets up his evil scheme,

ROTS is how he executes it.

In all these setups, AOTC is the awkward guy in the middle. It does little to connect TPM and ROTS. In fact, you could show someone TPM, and then say “well, after that invasion, the republic built a clone army and went into a war with the trade federation, which started calling itself the separatists.” Then pop Ep. III into the blu ray player and they won’t feel like they’ve missed everything. Attack of the Clones was an awful detour from what the PT should have been. I feel like if Ep. II would have been really good, the PT would not get the bad rep it gets today. People would have been like, “I understand why TPM wasn’t that great- George had to set the scene up and introduce the characters before we could get into the real stuff.”

 

AOTC added some really great dynamics to the SW universe. The Anakin and Padme relationship in that movie is something I would not see as love for the most part. They were both 2 people unaware of what love actually is. Anakin had 0 experience with girls and Padme didn't have much experience with guys it seems. How it ended up being in the end of the film is up for debate. Because getting married and being in love does not always walk hand in hand. I believe they were in love in the next episode though. The 3 year gap probably plays into that. The Tusken slaughter scene is exactly something I see Anakin doing and it plays into his way to becoming Vader. Anakin had trouble handling his emotions. That is why he went on a slaughter of Tuskens rather than take his mothers body and just going back to the Lars homestead. But that is the reason why the Jedi just didn't go back and get Anakin's mother after they had gotten him to be trained as a Jedi. Jedi can't have attachments. If that was the case, why not take all the parents of the infant Jedi's they took to be trained? Why does Anakin get the special treatment when it come to that? As I have seen people ask why don't they go free Anakin's mother? And by Anakin slaughtering Tuskens of his attachments(mother) that was one of many possible negative results of just why the Jedi don't have them. I personally don't know what the Tusken way of life is, but who is to say that ALL the Tuskens didn't play a role in torturing its victims? If the adult male Tuskens torture people as a way of life, I am sure that they teach younger ones how to do it. But you can't take real life scenarios and use it to judge the way the Tuskens act. This is another galaxy, where they have different rules and cultures. There were Nazi's that were killing people in camps. I am sure those soldiers/officers had girls that liked them. even knowing what they were doing? So Padme still liking Anakin isn't a far stretch really. At least Anakin was honest and up front about what he did.

 

That's a really good example and comparison to the film.

 

Thanks!

 

Yes. AOTC is the worst of the bunch. Tried watching it the other day.

 

The problem I have with AOTC is that the story feel like a real hack job....and it's a problem that continues into ROTS.

For me, one of the most disappointing parts of the prequels was Anakin's fall. After all it's the core story of the whole thing. While I was expecting a gradual descent to the dark side we didn't really get that at all. Aside from the dand people massacre and the tantrum afterwards, Anakin is pretty much a regular Jedi until he suddenly decides to turn half way through ROTS. Not only does the turn in ROTS eel like a spur of the moment thing, but the other wise "nice" Anakin that we get pretty much up until then in the three months renders the sand people scene as feeling out of character. So, when I sit down to watch AOTC I just don't feel I am watching a great deal in the progression of Anakin's story and therefore the whole think just feels like padding. I also don't care much for the Jedi arena battle at the end, which I just think is overkill.

 

Or it could just be bad writing and/or acting?

I applaud your ability to read things into it to try and draw meaning and depth out of it. But, ultimately, Christensen just doesn't convince to the general audience, and most people seeing the movie for the first time won't sit there assessing all that stuff to try and and combat a feeling of incompetent acting and hokey scripting. When I first saw the movie all I could think was "this guy stinks", and it was doubly disappointing to see after the rather poor Jake Lloyd. As a actor in this genre you've really got to convince the bulk of the audience first off, and, in my opinion, Hayden didn't even come close to accomplishing that in either of his performances, especially AOTC. To watch him I felt like I was looking at a moody teenager in a school play. Contrast that to the prequel trilogy cast, and you have people who were immediately interesting and/or charismatic. In other words they convinced you enough to drag you into the story. Watching Christensen, for me, not only felt like a chore, but also left me rather incredulous at Lucas's seemingly now poor eye for talent.