main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Has George Lucas ever addressed the difference in "look" between the PT and CT

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by cbwhu, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. cbwhu

    cbwhu Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Seemed very strange to me that everything seemed cleaner and more advanced than it would years later in the CT

    Did George ever address that?
     
  2. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    The time of the Old Republic was a more elegant and civilized age.
     
  3. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    For me Tatooine, Geonosis, and certain areas of Coruscant all stayed true to the OT's used, dirty look. And the Imperial ships/bases, Cloud City, and Mon Cal cruisers feel at home with the PT's clean lines and shiny tech. Just a matter of narrative focus.
     
  4. bstnsx704

    bstnsx704 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2013
    What both above posts said. We see more civilized locations in the PT (and it is a more civilized age in general, as Obi-Wan informs us in ANH). Cloud City is the only real civilized location we see in the OT and it looks pretty at home with a lot of the PT architecture. On the flip side, we do see a lot of dusty, broken down locations and tech in the PT as well, when we visit planets like Tatooine, Geonisis, etc.

    Also, even more so, we see a transition from sleek to clunky (for lack of better terms) progress through the films as they grow closer to the timeline of the OT. The progression from one style to the other isn't necessarially realistic, but then again, this is Star Wars and it doesn't have to be. It's all metaphor, a reflection of the characters and society and the changing times, a seamless bridge from one era to another. I made a thread about it aeons ago: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/aesthetic-evolution-between-the-trilogies.50020100/
     
  5. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2015

    I think it has to do with eras. If the OT was utilitarian and 70s, the PT might hearken back to the designs of the 50's and 60's... rounded edges and a sense of style and art. I believe this was discussed in the special features in TPM, where he talks about the different look of a different generation. I think this is the main reason he included the sort of hamburger diner location in AOTC too, calling back to the years of his own teenage youth.
     
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Planets like Naboo and Coruscant are more elegant and civilized. Hence the speeders and ships look a certain way which has to do with luxury over combat. But we do see ships that have the OT design to them, either recreated or borrowed from McQuarrie's work.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    They're in line with the ships of the OT.
     
  7. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Even the TF hanger looks right out of the OT.

    I agree about how some of the PT ships are inspired by 50s designs. The Naboo ships are pretty much 50s car hood ornaments, which many looked like spaceships.

    The Bespin cloud cars look like they are from a PT film.
     
  8. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Everything is indeed cleaner in the prequels, but there is nothing to suggest that it is in any way more advanced. In fact, there are several overt cues that the technology is, in fact, less advanced (small fighters have to use external hyperdrives, transmitted holograms don't have as much color detail, prosthetic skin doesn't seem to be a thing).
     
  9. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Yes. His goal was to make ep1-6 the same universe. That was the purpose of fixing up the OT films from the old crappy looking films I was never interested in. He fixed up the OT half of the saga to resemble PT half of it in quality.
     
  10. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Ugh.
    The difference in aesthetic is partially done on purpose for symbolic reasons but this just gives PT fans a bad name. Do you WANT people to think we have a short attention span or something.
     
  11. Anakin 99

    Anakin 99 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2016
    the OT = outer rim
    the PT = Core Worlds

    that simple An example from Our world go to America and then go to the Middle East They are different from Each other and We are on the same planet, not only the same galaxy
     
    DBPirate, corinthia, jc1138 and 7 others like this.
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012


    Even treating it as "Galaxy America" there's room for nuance.

    In the Legends-verse, The Essential Atlas Endnotes had its own summary of what region could be thought of as corresponding to where:




    DAN: This is a good point to discuss my thoughts on structuring the galaxy, and what it would mean from a cultural standpoint. Apologies in advance for the U.S.-centric nature of this explanation, but it's what I was drawing on from personal experience, and I thought a society that initially formed in a concentrated area and later spread out into a vast, untamed frontier lent itself well to such parallels. The Republic is split into six major divisions, and while working on the Atlas my mental stereotypes were:

    Core: Manhattan. An undisputed center of business, fashion, music, publishing, tourism, food, you name it. "If you can make it there you can make it anywhere." Undeniably impressive, but its residents are hated by outsiders as arrogant elites.

    Colonies: Brooklyn/Queens. The outer boroughs of New York City just aren't the same as Manhattan, but what the hell, it's still New York.

    Inner Rim: New Jersey. The object of much mockery from New Yorkers, despite the fact that New York City and New Jersey are all right on top of each other. Culturally, New Jersey is considered some sort of remote hinterland, but only to New Yorkers. Outsiders don't quite get it (somebody from Indianapolis has no reason to make a New Jersey joke) and that's part of the point. To those who live in the area, once you've traveled out of their small patch of the eastern seaboard you've left the Core and entered the Rim.

    Expansion Region: Detroit. The beginning of the Rim, i.e. a place settled during frontier expansion where it eventually became an industrial powerhouse. (Actually Detroit was settled in 1701 by the French, but let's not split hairs.) Like many such places in the so-called "Rust Belt," Detroit's days as a factory town are on the wane and it is filled with empty symbols of industry.

    Mid Rim: Iowa. A place of modest towns and modest ambitions, known for honest, hard-working friendly folk. Derided as hopelessly behind the curve and about as exciting as a bowl of unbuttered mashed potatoes.

    Outer Rim: Dogpatch, Arkansas. If you live here you live a long way from anywhere with cultural bragging rights. It doesn't matter how smart, stylish, or brilliant you are - as soon as you announce your hometown even Midwesterners give you "that look" and mentally classify you as a hillbilly.

    I'm sure I annoyed many U.S. readers with my gross stereotyping, but this isn't meant to be a commentary on America so much as it is a structure with which I could set my head and write about the regions as if they were real places. (It's obviously an incomplete structure anyway, since a city like Los Angeles has no place in this particular cosmology.) I'm a Mid-Rimmer by birth who has lived in the Expansion Region so I'm certainly not one to cast any culture-war stones. Except for this one aimed at Jason, who is from the Colonies and is therefore a huge snob.
     
  13. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    I don't see how anything is "cleaner".

    The PT is clearly far "dirtier".

    It's like comparing the Tatooine of the OT to the PT. The PT Tatooine is far dirtier because they actually go places that actually can get dirty.

    It's such an odd one because if anyone fans should know that Tatooine is not the norm. In the movies it's clearly a junk planet of no regard that is not the place you want to be.

    The only really clean place is Tipoca City on Kamino. What exactly is dirty about Endor or Hoth or Dagobah? Nothing much really. Now compare that to Geonosis, Naboo, Mustafar etc.

    As for things being advanced as Lucas said he specifically didn't go anywhere like seen in the PT because it was impossible to do at that point.

    All we see in the OT is really the Empire and the Rebels and that is not really indicative of the larger galaxy. If you go by that then there are few "aliens" and it's mostly a human universe which was never the case but they simply couldn't do much with aliens so they had to avoid them for the most part.
     
  14. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Generally, the Republic was prosperous and happy place to live. And we should nоt forget, peaceful till the Clone wars. So the technology and the architecture reveals that. But it was not the same in the barbarian world of Tattoine, for example, there was slavery there. In the same time, there were enough dirty places in the Republic too: remember the bar scene in AOTC: drugs and gambling and hitmans, etc. But yes, the Republic was rich: even its dirtiest places looked better than the port cantina in OT.
     
  15. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    The ships we see in the PT typically have less blast scarring and better paint jobs.

    A Republic senator's yacht:
    [​IMG]

    Versus an Imperial Senator's yacht:
    [​IMG]
    The OT Senator travel in a pile of junk compared to the luxury the previous generation traveled in. In the PT, Senator Amidala's ship is shiny, chrome painted, and free of exhaust burner smudging. In the OT, Senator Organa travels in a beat up bucket of bolts with chipped paint, faded colors, and exhaust fumes smudging up the engines. There's a much clearer "used" look from OT vehicles than from their PT equivalents.

    The buildings we see in the PT typically have less imperfections and grime on them.

    Theed:
    [​IMG]

    Mos Eisley:
    [​IMG]
    Mos Eisley is built of cracked mud huts and structures, with crumbling bases and chipped sides. There's exposed piping and no ornamentation. It's very basic. Theed on the other hand is very ornate and pretty. It has ornamental flowering vines on it's wonderfully cut bricks. Theed has no exposed infrastructure. It's picturesque. Theed has paved roads, Mos Eisley does not.

    We typically see more urban environments than rural or wild ones in the PT.

    Coruscant:
    [​IMG]

    Endor:
    [​IMG]
    Endor is dirty. It has dirt ground, not paved ground, What little structures it has are already being quickly reclaimed by the forest around it. There's dead leaves and pine needles littering the roof of the shield generator bunker and moss growing up it's sides. The structure hasn't been there but a few years, but it already looks like it's been there for a decade. The metal is corroding, the building simply looks derelict. If I were to come across such a building in the woods, I'd think it was a decades old, abandoned fallout shelter. Because that's what it looks like. Dex's Diner on the other hand, looks nice and new. It looks like the kind of place I wouldn't have second thoughts about entering to grab a burger or something. That building probably HAS been there for other a decade, but it doesn't betray it's age because it's owner hasn't let it look like it's gone to pot.

    The OT is just all around a dirtier place, partly from an aesthetic reason, and partly because the Rebellion typically hangs around in uncivilized places like Hoth, Yavin and Tatooine. While the Jedi typically are scene in less dodgy locations like Theed and Coruscant, or industrial centers like Geonosis or Utapau.
     
  16. Ord Sorrell

    Ord Sorrell Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2016
    No offense to anyone living in Michigan or Detroit, I happen to love that state and city, but I like to think of Prequel Vs Classic like 50's AMerican Automobile peak Detroit vs Detroit in 2016...

    The style was more elegant as opposed to the functional/mass production friendly styles that the empire ushered in, plus after the republican fell, and the clone wars were over, billions of beings took to scavenging the wartorn planets and systems that had capital ship wrecks and deserted bases, and such and used to parts to build new vehicles, and weapons and bases and even capital ships, so that contributed to the "junky" look of the GCW era
     
  17. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Just going to copy and paste this post from another thread that had this same topic a few months back...
    Are you ok with the galaxy presented in PT looking aesthetically different from the OT

    This is one of the most mis-characterized "issues" I have seen with the PT. Right up there with the PT is all CGI backgrounds with no sets puppets etc etc etc...

    I have made many a post about this topic, can almost type it in my sleep...

    The "used" look that is often referred to about the OT is purely situational and meant to convey a visual message. This same idea is used in the PT as well.

    In the OT there is a clean and futuristic look to many elements as well as the used and worn down look.

    That clean and futuristic look is often times used as a design element, as a visual cue for the Empire. It represents an almost sanitized look which is meant to portray the look of order with no room for variation. The Outsides of the Star Destroyers are clean white/grey, the hallways, hangers, bridge are all immaculate, there is no look of being used and worn down. The Empire is the man, the machine, the representation of a mass produced society/military with no variation, no individuality and no room for chaos in it's quest to keep order.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then there is the Death Star, which is the same visual cue as the Star Destroyers, clean and immaculate on the inside. So clean and shiny that there is a reflection on the floor!

    [​IMG]



    However, the Empire is not the only place where we see the clean and neat look, we see it on board the Tantive! No stains, broken panels, water marks, etc etc. Nice and white and clean! A representation of the person that is on board! A representation that this is also someone of importance that isn't being hauled around in a piece of junk...A representative of the Empire, but, with a secret...So the look has to be kept up...



    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    So where is this used and worn down look? It is where we would expect to find it, in harsh environments, like say a desert planet. Where the rough environment has taken a toll on everything, as well as the citizens not having the means to keep up with housekeeping or maintenance, they are scratching a living with junk while the stark contrast of the high and mighty Empire is living high off the hog.

    This is used again as a visual cue to show the Hero has come from humble beginnings, maybe even a rough life. Done so we can relate with the hero...

    [​IMG]

    However, the used and worn down look also is used a visual cue to represent the Rebellion, to show they are the anti-Empire. Their fighters are used and worn down, pieced together. Not new, which is again in stark contrast to the Empire's fighters which again are a representation of a mass produced war machine with no room for individuality, or what they would deem chaos.The used look of the Rebel fighters gets the message across that they are the underdogs in this fight they are dirty and used, the Empire, while greyish is clean...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    These types of Visual Cues are also used and expanded upon in the PT.

    In the PT we get our first look at an actual civilized society, how their societies aesthetics are reflected in design...

    Naboo is the perfect example. A peaceful, almost Utopian society, not touched by war. Why is it's aesthetic so shockingly different from what we see in the OT? Because we never saw this society in the OT, we never saw any society in the OT beyond that of the military factions and a brief glimpse of the inside of an ambassador's ship.

    It drives me nuts that fans actually take the time to complain about this, but, won't take that same time to look deeper into why things look the way they do.

    Naboo is a representation of the galaxy pre-war, almost a shiny innocence to it, with the chrome ships, and beautiful architecture. Something that will be lost once the Empire takes over.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Yet again though, the used and worn down look is seen again where it is meant to send the same visual message associated with the hero...

    [​IMG]

    Finally, one of the little things that Lucas did in the PT was show how things deteriorated in some ways as the Republic itself deterioted because of the war.

    Perfect example is the Jedi Council Chambers... in TPM, it is clean and immaculate, a reflection of the golden age of the Jedi:

    [​IMG]

    However, in ROTS we see the same chambers now dirty and worn out. Obvious symbolism to the toll the war has taken on the Jedi, on the Republic. Possibly symbolism that the encroaching darkside has brought rot, and decay into the Jedi. Or even symbolism that by the Jedi allowing themselves to be drawn into the war, they are destroying themselves....

    [​IMG]


    So yeah... the whole idea that the OT was all about a used and worn down universe is just a really selective way to look at the OT, especially when used as a negative comparison for the PT...

    While clean, futuristic looks existed in both trilogies, used and worn down looks also appeared in both trilogies as well.

    How they were used almost always depended on the visual message that Lucas wanted to send....
     
  18. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    all we really see in the OT are ships related to war. as to fashion I think Lucas said something once about fashion going out the window when the civil war happened.

    The PT is the Renaissance, or close to it. The OT is more like the dark ages, in a way.

    but really this big deal that is made of the differences comes down to naboo and coruscant. the rest of the PT looks pretty much like the OT.
     
    ConservativeJedi321 and Tonyg like this.
  19. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    mikeximus likes this.
  20. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    A good comparison would be between Tantive IV and the Republic blockade runner (or is it a cruiser?) at the beginning of TPM. Basically the same ship, but while the Tantive has many guns and damage taken from battles, the Republic ship is cleaner and has no weapons of any kind. Why is this? "There hasn't been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic."
     
  21. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    "The way to criticize a Star Wars trilogy is to make another Star Wars trilogy"

    -- Godard

     
  22. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It isn't SW unless its controversial in some way or other.
     
  23. The hidden holocron

    The hidden holocron Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    More advanced? In PT you need to enter in a ring to use the hyperdrive. In OT each rebel fighter has that tecnology "built-in".
     
  24. Ord-Mantell70

    Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2009
    There was a 1999 (TPM US release) interview I remember from Studio Magazine (French), where G.Lucas is asked about the different looks and technologies used for the two series, and related issues.

    A long time ago...But he basically answered that he had thought about it of course, and the stylistic gap it would inevitably create in terms of a whole cohesive cinematic story, but that movies (OT) always got old and dated with time, and that each trilogy had always been envisoned as fundamentally different from the beginning (1980), what most people and media didn't recall or didn't like.
     
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  25. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005



    Indeed, Lucas strongly implied the prequel trilogy would have a different look, flavour, and tone no later than 1981, when he said to Kerry O'Quinn:

    "The first trilogy will not be as much of an action adventure kind of thing. Maybe we'll make it have some humor, but right now it's much more humorless than this one. This one is where all the excitement is, which is why I started with it. The other ones are a little more Machiavellian--it's all plotting--more of a mystery."

    Source: p. 107, "George Lucas: Interviews", interview with Kerry O'Quinn, edited by Sally Kline
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=P2P7pwHeZSkC&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq="more machiavellian" lucas&source=bl&ots=tJmCIV_hjC#v=onepage&q="more machiavellian" lucas&f=false



    The fact that he deliberately waited a fair while to make it, aside from all his other reasons, also suggests he was waiting for technology to catch up with his powers of imagination; and he may have been hoping to convey a more pristine look through the technology that would later become available (i.e., digital cinematography and digital effects).


    Then there is what Lucas says at the end of the following documentary, which was included at the beginning of the 2000 VHS re-release of the original trilogy (its final release on VHS):





    I've written a transcript:


    "A lot of the issues that are in films four, five, and six become much clearer when you begin to realize what's behind the issues and how things came to pass. Because there's a lot of things that really are alluded to in the last three films, but they don't make much sense unless you really get the jist of what happens, and you really have to have seen one, two, and three in order to get it all.

    You get to see the universe, kind of, in the first three films. You get to go to the Senate, you get to go to the centre of the galaxy, you get to go to these very sophisticated planets, and all this kind of stuff. And you're seeing things that are very sophisticated. You're seeing very sophisticated aliens, all kinds of things that are digitally created. You know, large scope, very vast scale and everything.

    So then when you get down to Episode Four, it's all very small. Everything's real tiny. There's no scope to it at all and it's in a very small corner of the galaxy. You talk about those things, but you never, ever get to see them. But, of course, in this thing, you'll have already seen all those things, so you know what they're talking about. And you'll know when he's saying, 'I'm stuck here on the far corner of the galaxy', you'll know what he's talking about, and you'll realize that he is stuck in a little dim corner of the universe."



    The OT is the "little dim corner of the universe", while the PT is "the universe -- kind of".

    I love that!!

    It is clear that Lucas was thinking big with Star Wars ----> on multiple levels.
     
    Pyrogenic, xezene, Tonyg and 3 others like this.