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Oceania Has it become cool to bash and hate America?

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Darth_Reign, Jun 4, 2002.

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  1. JBMW

    JBMW Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    LoL *cough* sorry, that was just amusing.

    Don't know if there ever was a formal declaration of war (though I doubt any forces would have been sent without any such declaration). But are you denying there was a Vietnam war during which time America gave military aid to non-communist forces?

    On a side note, do you think the 'declaration of a war against terrorism' actually means the US is at war? LoL puh-lease. The absence or not of a declaration or the use of the term 'war' is clearly not definitive.
     
  2. legacyAccount

    legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 22, 2012
    We never actualy declred war during Vietnam, but I get what your saying.


    oh, please. let's not get caught up in "technicalities," eh? never actaully declared war indeed...
     
  3. Sarajevo

    Sarajevo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    I am in no way denying that we sent troops over there, or that America did not pertisapate in the war. All I am saying is that the U.S. never DECLARED war. There is a difference between declare and fight. If you want to know more tell me and I'll put a slew of stuff up. Anywaz, can someone tell me why just America is being singled out when other countries are doing some of the same things. :)
     
  4. JBMW

    JBMW Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    LoL! Ahh, send in the clowns.

    Please, put up your 'slew of stuff' *cough* errr I mean 'invaluably well-researched and definitive proof'. I need more amusement in my life.
     
  5. Darth_Reign

    Darth_Reign Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2001
    "can someone tell me why just America is being singled out when other countries are doing some of the same things."

    Honestly. It's because America has the highest GDP and GDP per capita. It has the most public face and is truthfully the most powerful nation on earth. So it's bound to get a lot of critisism. HMost people Australian's for example bash America's human rights violations when they don't realise that Australia also has various little embarrasing traits that we would rather not have hanging around on our public face. Every country has corruption in it's economic and political infastructures. America only cops the most flak because it is the most public and powerful nation.

    Also Australians like to generalise America for having to much crime, at almost 10 times Australia's crime rates. Well that's to be expected. America has 250 million people, we have 20 million. They are bound to have alot more crime than us. In fact if you look at percentages Australia has a worse crime rate considering it's population.

    America isn't worse than other countrys. Perhaps the anti American crowd would like for China or the old USSR to be the most poweful nation and live in similar conditions as people do in those countries. Because I've been to China and let me tell you that the majority of people there don't live in the nicest conditions. Would you like to live under a totalitarian government where your freedom of speech is taken and you aren't allowed to own your own land?
     
  6. legacyAccount

    legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 22, 2012
    the reason we didn't declare war was because it would have been political suicide, not any other reason.

    we drafted people, for pete's sake!
     
  7. JEDIPAULAW

    JEDIPAULAW Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2000
    I dhavn't eves bothered profering my opine on here, because it doesn't really need answering :), I come to the boards for an ecletic escape , not to be reminded of how F%^&*( up the world is :)
     
  8. TheOzhaggis

    TheOzhaggis Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2000

    The most powerful nation on earth...?

    First off, so what? Look how much that helped Mesopotamia, Rome, Britain, and every other most powerful nation on earth.

    Second, I doubt it.

    Financially? Ask Japan.

    Politically? Ask Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan, Ireland, China, etc ... how much clout does America have?

    Military power? Nearly everyone has The Bomb. And its armed forces always lose war games (and guess who beats them?).

     
  9. Darth_Reign

    Darth_Reign Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2001
    "Financially? Ask Japan.

    Politically? Ask Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan, Ireland, China, etc ... how much clout does America have?

    Military power? Nearly everyone has The Bomb. And its armed forces always lose war games (and guess who beats them?)."


    Financially: Japan's infastructure has practically collapsed in the last 5 years. It has gone into recession. America is able to support themselves without the help of any outside resources if needs be.

    Politically: Relates to Military and Economy. Basically every country besides China bows down and kisses America's feet. Just look at how when America doesn't sign an international agreement (EG Kyoto agreement, International Court) Australia and other Nations will automatically do the same. Australia is basically the Fifth branch of the American Government, Britain being the Forth.

    Militarily: The bomb doesn't matter. America spends 750 billion dollars per year on it's military machine. You better be either very stupid or very confident to take that on. War games only incorporate strategic elements and equal portions of military equipment and crews. They are on an equal playing field. A war against America would not be on an equal playing field no matter which country you are. Their Army may not have the most well trained or intellignet men, but one things for sure. They have the best toys, and lots of them.
     
  10. JBMW

    JBMW Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    "Basically every country besides China bows down and kisses America's feet. Just look at how when America doesn't sign an international agreement (EG Kyoto agreement, International Court) Australia and other Nations will automatically do the same."

    Err, Australia (and other countries) don't need to follow the US in refusing to sign up to Optional Protocols or the proposed International Criminal Court - they have their own agendas for refusing to be signatories, namely we are naughty naughty countries. And actually China was one of the last members to come to the table re: the UN Declaration on Human Rights, with America being one of the first countries to do so. In any case, and I felt fairly disillusioned when I found this out, the worst autocracies, totalitarian governments and biggest abusers of human rights were among the first countries to sign up - why? Because there's a lot of loopholes with international law which means you can look like a good global-participant and sign on the dotted line but that doesn't necessarily obligate the country to do ANYTHING vis. implementing the ratified Covenant/Treaty.

    Currently the US, the UK, Russia, China and France are the only 5 permanent members at the Security Council (with the remaining 10 member states being rotated every 2yrs) with the power to veto Resolutions with a single vote. I'd say THAT is evidence of their political sway.
     
  11. LittleJedi

    LittleJedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2001
    I don't know about other places but where i live, (the NT), bashing Americans is a joke, in the same way that Aussies bash NZ, and Americans bash Canada etc. 'American' is a bit like 'blond' where people say that they're stupid etc but don't really mean it. For example, if an American poster here for instance said something stupid, we tend to explain it by going 'figures, they're american', and snigger about it a bit. But we don't really mean it at all.

    And I wonder about the sanity of people who say America deserved Sep 11...

    Personally, American accents bug me and so does its commercialism. I also hate George W. Bush but it doesn't mean that I hate America on the whole. It's done some great things, as well as some not so great things, many of its people are very nice, and i mean, come on! - GL is American! :D We gotta love them! ;)
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Guys, do me a favour - let's just stop patting humanity on the back - we're a virus with shoes, ok? You can't afford to look at Good Nation/Bad Nation because every nation has it's story, has nationalism to justify their action. Sure, America can do evil, but they can do good. They didn't deserve 9/11. They deserve to be made accountable, and the war crimes court would do that - which they won't support of course - for things they've done but this is religion talking here. Religion what defies, brazenly, the beast known as logic.
    As the late, great Bill Hicks once said,

    "I'm so sick of arming the world and then sending troops over to destroy the ******* arms, you know what I mean? We keep arming these little countries then we go and blow the ***t out of em. We're like the bullies of the world, you know. We're like Jack Palance in the movie Shane... Throwing the pistol at the sheep herder's feet:

    "Pick it up."

    "I don't wanna pick it up mister, you'll shoot me."

    "Pick up the gun".

    "Mister, I don't want no trouble huh. I just came down town here to get some hard rock candy for my kids, some gingham for my wife. I don't even know what gingham is, but she goes through about 10 rolls a week of that stuff. I ain't looking for no trouble mister."

    "Pick up the gun."

    Boom boom

    "You all saw him. He had a gun."


    Bill, you are missed.

    E_S
     
  13. Kehleyr

    Kehleyr Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2001
    I don't hate Americans, I have been over there a lot and have a lot of friend's and family there, so you will never see me bashing them.
     
  14. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Hey, there is a difference between America, the omnipresent government body, and America, the land and it's people. No one here truly hates Americans. Sure, they're crass and arrogant, believing culture is what exists within their borders, but that doesn't make them hate-worthy. Look at the irony - we're posting on a Star Wars fan website. Which is American pop culture, consumerism and all that rolled into one big bag of fun.
    When you love something enough - and let's face it, we're a very Americanised country here - you can see it's flaws. Hence why everyone talks about foriegn policy in a negative light.
    As for Empires? Read Paul Kennedy, he talks about America being another empire, which, like others before it, is in decline.

    E_S
     
  15. Sarajevo

    Sarajevo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    Has it become cool to bash and hate other countries?
     
  16. Ayla_Kenobi

    Ayla_Kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2002
    for some cultures or religions. I would say yes, for sure.
     
  17. Sarajevo

    Sarajevo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
  18. Ayla_Kenobi

    Ayla_Kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2002
    *shrugs* I don't know why. I just see it around often. Especially at work.
     
  19. HRH-Dior-Daala

    HRH-Dior-Daala Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2001
    american here

    sept 11, 2001 murder/hate crime victims were from about 80 countries
    they were hindu, christians, jews, muslims, gays, mothers, fathers, children,
    grandparents, aunts, uncles and other hard working people with families and friends miss them today
    it could have easily happened in any european country or in australia

    usa did not deserve the events of that day
    if you do not like america do not buy america products
    do not go to american movies
    do not ask america for help when something bad happens to your countries
    that is very simple
     
  20. Rogue_Product

    Rogue_Product Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Nobody personally hates Americans, we just hate the idea of people being American. They are (generally speaking) a cocky, self-centered society made up of people from all over the world. The notions of greed and arrogance are prolific within their society (as they are in most, if not all) but it is the fact that these notions are flaunted for gain that recent anti-american sentiment has flared. The irony of September 11 is that had it occurred anywhere else in the world, the Taliban would still be in place in Afghanistan and still primarily funded by American operations occurring there. The primal hatred of American's is nothing personal, but it is brought about by America's domination and egotism on the world stage.
     
  21. kahli

    kahli Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2000
    victims were from about 80 countries
    they were hindu, christians, jews, muslims, gays, mothers, fathers, children


    the same peoples that have suffered at the hands of 'america' then?
     
  22. Rogue_Product

    Rogue_Product Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2002
    America was the target, terrorism has no real care for who dies, as long as the target gets the message. If it happened in Britain would the US get anywhere near as involved as it is now? the same demographic would have still potentially died....
     
  23. Sarajevo

    Sarajevo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    They are (generally speaking) a cocky, self-centered society made up of people from all over the world.


    The same can be said for every country. :)
     
  24. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    The difference is, the attacks on British targets by the IRA were based on territorial disputes, cultural factors and were techinically collateral attacks from a border dispute. The 9/11 attacks were symbolic and a long time coming - NOT THAT America deserved it, it's just that for a while the Al Queda network has been testing US responses outside the US - like the USS Cole or in Dar-es-Salaam. With 9/11, the terrorists didn't just attack the US, they attack the entire Wests way of like. The towers were a symbol of capitalism, the pentagon of western military might and if the third target was indeed the White House, democracy. And as Samuel P Huntington noted, the new lines of conflict won't be ideology or economics, but culture. It was a cultural attack on all of us. Hence why we care.
    And whether you like it or not, the cultural lines also explain America bashing. Whilst we are Western in culture, we are reject American Westernism for our own brand. America is the dominant one, so we react and reject.

    E_S
     
  25. Tayschrenn

    Tayschrenn Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 24, 2002
    RE: Sarajevo

    They are (generally speaking) a cocky, self-centered society made up of people from all over the world.

    The same can be said for every country.


    While there are parts of what you have said that are true, I think the fundamental issue that underpinns the whole Anti-American sentiment is more the fact that America is the global leader in everything, and, as human nature would dictate it, most people are resentful of the success and standing of others. Thus the Band-wagon following that American Haters/Bashers have attracted. :)

    My $0.05,

    Tayschrenn
     
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