ST Has TFA started an adult-oriented Star Wars trend?

Tragedy and loss are but half the coin. Experiencing those and only those would hardly constitute an understanding of life.

And there are many things that are pandering to children. Practically the entire film. The droids, the jawas, the diagnoa, the entire concept of space wizards and starships. The entire film is pandering to children. Star Wars was so influential it took what was considered childish and made it the norm of entertainment. This doesn't make it less childish, it only shows that we all now carry an inner child within us. When Star Wars was released a man was a man, not a child. Now we have men watching My Special Pony. Star Wars is a huge part of why this is. It had such a profound impact that you don't even see space wizards as childish, apparently.

 

One of us isn't understanding the other.

TFA succeeds in showing how different people respond to similar triggers.

Finn sees a comrade die in front of him, in the midst of unwarranted brutality--he experiences an existential crisis. People criticising the character for being inconsistent by killing his own comrades just don't get it: he's not acting on principle, he just wants to survive.

Rey has carved out an existence that is rough, but she knows the parameters and can operate well within them. She'd rather live in hardship than let go of the fantasy that keeps her going, because she has nothing else to give her a reason to live.

Kylo Ren is experiencing a crisis of identity. All he can do is flail in anger as Anakin's sins ripple through the generations.

Luke is a mystery, but he seems to want to be constructive and not just "run and hide".

Leia has found herself echoing Luke's words to her in ROTJ. 30 years ago, she didn't understand, but now she does.

Han is the character I've already covered, so I won't go over it again.

Everything occurring in TFA is a consequence of the Galactic Civil War, and the characters are operating in its shadow. How does one live in the wreckage of the past and make choices beyond the confines of history? Who are you, beyond the role that history has given you? These are big questions that I think TFA handles intelligently.

As for pandering to children, if spaceships and robots are in that category, I'm wondering why Metropolis and 2001 aren't nearly as popular with six year olds as they should be.

 

Do they have funny looking robots that act like an old married couple comedy routine? Does 2001 have spaceships that fly like airplanes and engage in massive dogfights with laser beams? Are you actually suggesting 6 year olds would enjoy silent films in this day and age? To the point of being "popular" in that age group? Your cherry picking is kind of sad to be honest.

What about those space wizards? Or are they now considered a staple of adulthood in your mind?

 

ANH and ESB are not serious, adult films, it's true. They are intended for teenagers and anyone young at heart. But what you identify as evidence of pandering are either tropes of science fiction, fantasy or myth in general--myth is not at all childish, and the confusion of folklore and myth with children's stories is a rather modern concept. Pandering means cynically including elements that appeal directly to children without any further purpose, which is quite different to making a film with intrinsic appeal to children.

As for Threepio and Artoo bickering, that was lifted from that known kiddie film The Hidden Fortress. Similarly the dogfights were based on the juvenile antics of The Dambusters.

 

Yeah, because The Hidden Fortress is certainly known for its friendly looking robots. That must be why kids love it so much! And obviously kids love it when those two poor Japanese men had to escape a starship in an escape pod. And you're right, I'm sure no kid ever found WW2 aerial sequences interesting. I mean, who didn't love the laser blasts during those sequences? Those Nazi's... man they had some mean laser tech in those days.

I mean we all know that Lucas being inspired by something means he copied it completely, right? ...right?

 

ROTJ started the trend of understanding life before demolishing it. It woven theme into the mix...

 

You can bash all you want...But I have other problems with your comment.. Returning to the PT format Even as a PT fan, that wouldn't make sense. They will tarnish their own image and lose money..

If if they had a chance, don't. Do something different with you're own creativity, mixing a cohesive fusion of the 2 since ST will tackle on harder subjects yet

And that last part is a generalist invalidation. Hardcore OT fans hated TFA also. Go back and read the "Cave" thread here. Or check out plenty of Reviews and Youtube reviews.

It's a combination of both fans. Hell, even many of the OT fans, admitted that at least the PT did something new! You can't just pin one part of the fanbase like that just because you see some fans of the other spectrum disliking it. There is much more than meets the eye of the tiger...

 

The point should be obvious, but I guess not.

You claimed that the inclusion of bickering robots, spaceships, dogfights and "space wizards" are examples of ANH pandering to children.

Well, the Artoo/Threepio relationship dynamic is very similar to the two peasants in The Hidden Fortress. That sort of dynamic may appeal to children, but it has a broader appeal, too, as its inclusion in The Hidden Fortress suggests.

The same goes for aerial dogfights. OK, kids may find that sort of thing exciting, and lasers add a nice sci-fi element. Space wizards, sword fights, smugglers, angry natives, princesses, swashbuckling, derring-do... it all taps into the fantasy life of children. But that doesn't mean that it's pandering to children--it means it's a confection of all the stuff that kids--and adults--used as escapism in the mid 20th century. Errol Flynn wasn't just a star for pre-teens, nor John Wayne, because swashbucklers and westerns had mass appeal. And ANH itself should demonstrate that SW originally had mass appeal, too. (Compare with the fact that almost no one born before 1990 is that fussed about TPM, outside of this forum, anyway.)

Lucas wanted to make something that spoke to teenagers (note: not 10 year olds as he later claimed) but at no point was he pandering to pre-teens. The film respects the intelligence of its audience and talks up to them, not down. And adults recognised it as a fun film in its own right. You can easily make the same case for TFA.

 

I'd argue that TPM is actually the broadest of all the episodes, covering the whole spectrum between the most child pandering antics of Jar Jar and the obviously adult subject of high politics relating to Palpatine, with tons of action both fun and cool, menacing Sith Lords and Jedi philosophies filling the space in between.
Perhaps that's the problem for some of us, though; that it's too broad.

 

I'd say it's not broad so much as a hodgepodge of disparate elements, very few of which have broad appeal individually.

 

Fair enough. I'll concede that it's not quite as focused as, for instance, TFA, which is much narrower in style.
To me, it works splendidly, as TPM is primarily designed as a prologue or an overture, but I can definitely see why others are repulsed by it.
It's all in the eye of the beholder!

 

And maybe those so called "PT fans" - most of whom as we all know love the OT just as much as the PT - wanted ST to simply bring something new and original to the saga - something that neither OT or PT had.

"do you really want a return to the PT plot elements where Rey loses the will to live because Kylo is mean"

No such thing would happen in Lucas´s Sequel Trilogy. No such thing happened in PT either.

 

I wouldn't say that TFA started an adult oriented SW. In fact, it's a step back.

So, where's the problem? In execution.

Adult oriented movie requires adult oriented themes explored in it, themes that give the movie a tone. They put, again, underdog vs. overdog story that doesn't really work because in the previous movie our characters won and the explanation in TFA is not a good one. ANH worked fine because there were no movies set before, TFA had six of them. There's that FO that destroys the Republic and it's army in one swift stroke and that's it? It's cheap, it's too fast, it's unrealistic, that ruins the theme of darkness or, if you will, seriousness.
There are our main characters. Rey without a family, Finn deserting and Kylo leaving his family. There is a potential in them, but it's ruined, first by constant action, second by their juvenile interaction. Some hints are given (Han about Luke and the academy being the best, Maz Kanata, Han and Leia about Kylo), but it never goes under the surface. The villains are poorly used (and familiar) and the story of Han trying to bring Ben back seams contrived - have the Solos ever tried to bring Ben back or just this one time in the movie, so they could kill Han? I wanted a firm backstory, a hints of tragedy, I wanted more.

The PT dealt with some serious issues of growing up, of one man's desires, of tragedy, love, loss and politics, and those were really serious and adult oriented themes. The OT dealt with friendship, choosing your own path in the world, which were also great. TFA, for now the only ST movie, tried to do all that, but it didn't have enough skilled moviemakers behind it or just the time.