Has the Clone Wars ruined Obi Wans credibilty?

Obi-Wan's credibility was ruined for me as early as ANH:

As for the actual topic, I think it's a silly allegation for some of the reasons people have said.

 

I don't know. I never thought his credibility was hurt, or that Obi-Wan would even care, insofar as Obi-Wan is not carving his kills into the hilt of his lightsaber.

He may not have killed any Sith, but he defeated two of them. And nobody else did that, unless you consider Vader catching Palpatine off guard and throwing him down a reactor core as being equally valid with besting Dooku in a lightsaber fight.

Regardless of the long term outcome, in the short term, he won. He defeated Maul, which allowed the Naboo to reclaim the planet, and it was liberated. That Maul shows up 10-13 years later, still alive after bisection is not something that was Obi-Wan's fault or that he could have reasonably expected to happen.

With Anakin, again, he cut off three of his limbs and watched him receive would-be fatal burns. Plus he loved Anakin, so perhaps in THIS particular case he let his personal feelings get in the way of the mission and he couldn't bring himself to deliver the coup de grace. But at the same time, Yoda was going to confront Palpatine. How could Obi-Wan reasonably be expected to assume that Yoda was going to fail, leaving enough time for Palpatine to sense Vader losing, and run out to Mustafar in time to rescue Vader before he succumbed to his injuries?

He also was the one to finally kill Grievous. No matter how many times he got smacked along the way, he still ultimately won.

He lost repeatedly to Dooku, but defeated Vader. And a long term affect of that was

A. It kept the kids out of Vader's hands.
B. It reduced Vader's potential, making Palpatine begin to eye Luke as a prospective apprentice, which allowed Luke to get close enough to Vader and the Emperor to redeem his father.

But had Vader not been injured, Padme would have been taken by Vader, the kids would have been taken by him and probably would have fallen into the Emperor's hands soon after, in which case he might kill them as threats, or he might use them as leverage to control Vader and ensure his obedience.

Even if Obi-Wan didn't kill Vader, he still defeated him and that defeat had the long term effect of making Luke's success possible.

 

When Obi-Wan beats Darth Maul in Ep. I it's only because Darth Maul inexplicably stands there doing nothing besides watching while Obi-Wan flips over him and lands.

Obi-Wan is one of my favorite characters (if not my favorite). The only time I think he got beat up in a way that was too cartoon-y in TCW was in Kidnapped, but he was also purposely throwing the fight. Then again, the way he goes flying around when he gets hit in his fight with General Grievous in Ep. III is also kind of cartoon-y. And he's not purposely throwing that fight. So I think Obi-Wan's portrayals rank as follows: OT > TCW > PT

 

He was also a jerk in TPM when he talked trash about people who just helped them (Jar-Jar and Anakin respectively) and complains a lot.
Oh and lets not forget AOTC when he lectures Anakin about taking unnecessary risks and loosing his lightsaber and himself jumps out of the window to pursue someone. When a powerful force user tells him of dreams, quite possibly visions, that show his mother dying, he brushes it off.

TCW-Obi-Wan is a completely different person. He still fires of cynical remarks and witticisms, but he genuinely cares about the people around him.

 

Wait so Obi-Wan's rogue's gallery being too stubborn to die somehow ruins his credibility?


He put Maul down for ten years with a move that would've killed *anybody* else. He chopped the **** out of Anakin and basically dropped him in lava. He wrecked Durge on Muunilist. Complaining that Durge still came back is like complaining that Batman didn't finish Clayface. He beat Grievous almost every time they fought. The only person on your list that really got the better of him was Jango, and Obi-Wan still ended up getting what he wanted.

 

I'm not blaming him, and I agree, there was no way for him to expect that Vader could be saved. But that just proves that he was embittered by his failure with Anakin, and everythingelse..

Yes it was Obi-Wan's fault that Anakin fell to the Dark Side, and he himself admitted that. He was at least as much responsible as Palpatine was. He was unable to properly bring up Anakin, he couldn't teach him how to let go, and frankly, didn't even try. He was an *******, who taught Anakin with a "I'm the Master, so you do as I say, don't argue, you're automatically wrong" mentality. His failure as a teacher, and especially as a father-figure, was the prime reason why Anakin grew to hold Palpatine in such a high regard.
Don't get me wrong, I really like his character, because his life is almost (if not even more) as tragic as Anakin's. But he WAS a gigantic failure regardless.

 

Anakin was already all the way in dark side territory when he killed those Tusken in AOTC. Wiped them out, all of them. Whatever happened inbetween TPM and AOTC did some major damage to him. Made him obsess about power and treat people like objects.

Who can you blame for him turning into a sociopath? Certainly Anakin himself, but also the Jedi order too. If kids turn really bad, it is too easy to only blame the kids for that. Parents always play a role too.

It is ridiculous that for driving a car you have to get a license but every idiot can get a child.

 

So, Anakin has no fault whatsoever in his fall to the dark side? It is all Obi-Wan's fault?

Obi-Wan was raised by the Jedi Order - he didn't have the upbringing Anakin had. Is it his fault that he tried to teach Anakin the Jedi values and Anakin wouldn't listen? He tried his best to help Anakin let go of his attachments. Obi-Wan didn't know his family, didn't leave his family in slavery like Anakin did. How could Obi-Wan possibly understand? Palpatine took advantage of Anakin. Anakin always craved positive feedback. He didn't like it when he was criticized, nor did he take it on board as an opportunity to improve. Anakin didn't want to listen to Obi-Wan at all - he chose to ignore his advice, from someone who had far more experience then him in the Jedi ways. Anakin thought he was ready to be a Jedi Knight and that Obi-Wan was wrong - No he wasn't. Anakin was arrogant and couldn't even see his own faults or understand why he wasn't ready. He was reckless and impatient - too things that Jedi should not be. Anakin did not listen. Palpatine took advantage of Anakin's craving to always be praised. That was Anakin's downfall - that he considered anything Obi-Wan said to him that was not praise to be against him. He thought he knew better then Obi-Wan, who had been trained as a Jedi since birth.

Yes, Obi-Wan could have been kinder to Anakin, but he was acting in the way he was brought up. Do Jedi even have father-figures? Do Masters become like that to Apprentices? Anakin certainly was attached to Obi-Wan regardless of his jealous feelings towards him believing he was being held back. I think Anakin felt guilty over what he was accusing Obi-Wan off in AOTC. He was blaming someone who was not at fault at all for his circumstances. The dreams comment about dreams pass in time... Is it not rare for Jedi to have visions? How could Obi-Wan have known they were portents of the present? Even if Obi-Wan had tried to act, and ask the Council, it still would have been too late: Shmi would have died. I think Anakin and Obi-Wan were on a mission to Ansion just prior to AOTC when Anakin started to get the dreams of his mother. They were reassigned as soon as they returned to Coruscant to protect Padme. There was no possible way Shmi would have survived regardless - would that still have been Obi-Wan's fault if they had been able to go to Tatooine? Anakin could have confided more in his Master and helped Obi-Wan understand - it works both ways. Anakin wasn't willing to work at their relationship and Obi-Wan kept hitting a stubborn brick wall.

Despite that, they still became best friends/brothers. They still loved one another.

Yes, Obi-Wan is not totally blameless for Anakin's fall, but he is not at fault in the way you think he is. Anakin is the one mostly at fault, for not listening and most of all, not using his brain. His own actions and choices. Obi-Wan had nothing to do with it. He was not there at the time.

 

Can't say I agree. First and foremost, laying blame for Anakin's fall on a single person, who's not Anakin, is silly. Nobody forced him to turn to the Dark Side. Nobody forced him to massacre Younglings. Nobody forced him to Force Choke his wife.

And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker. That it was all you. Is you. Only you. You killed her. You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have been thinking about her, you were thinkinh about yourself....It is in this blazing moment that you finally understand the trap of the dark side, the final cruelty of the Sith---Because now your self is all you will ever have.
----Revenge of the Sith Novelization, pg 417

(Should be required reading for every Star Wars fan)


It was him, and always was him, and his "lust for power" as his old master put it. This lust for power is obvious to anyone who watched the films, and can be seen in AOTC where he goes on about being held back and how he'll become stronger for this or that reason. In terms of Palpatine getting his claws into Anakin, that's also not Obi-Wan's fault per se. Not only was Sidious a master manipulator, but Anakin was a very vain and easily influenced person. Palpatine appealed to this, flattering Anakin at every turn, being a shoulder to lean on, and specifically, a person who wouldn't ever tell him he was wrong, or look down on him even when he did something monstrous (Such as massacre that Tusken village.) Saying Obi-Wan failed to teach him to let go, or do this or that, ignores the fact that Palpatine was there just as long as Obi-Wan was, already working on Anakin, without anyone else's knowledge. He constantly undermined and contradicted the lessons Obi-Wan attempted to teach Anakin, so it really isn't as if Anakin became the person he is with only Obi-Wan guiding him.

Really, no one else should be blamed for Anakin's transformation into Vader except himself, because everyone has the power of choice, and is responsible for his or her own actions. Obi-Wan taking blame really doesn't mean anything. People do that all the time, blaming themselves for things that happen. Anakin blamed himself for his mother's death, when realistically he isn't the one to blame for that, and so on. I'd also point out that as highly as Anakin may have thought of Palpatine, he held Obi-Wan in the same view, with both of them coming to think of each other as best friends and brothers, who couldn't imagine life without the other.

 

What's this pompuos, scornful tone? If that's how you want, I can play like that as well!
Yes, it was ultimately Anakin, who chose the Dark Side, and committed horrible acts. But anyone who not just saw ATOC, but actually watched it, should know, that Obi-Wan was a terrible teacher. All he ever did, was critising and talking down to Anakin, never explaining anything, "Do as I say, shut up, and don't try to think for yourself, because you're incapable of it!" sums up his "teaching" method. This was the absolutely worst possible way to bringing up a kid, who had grown up as a slave and the only things he had had, until Qui-Gon arrived to Tatooine, were his identitity, his creativity and his mother. Separated from his mother, his teacher trying to make him forget his identiy, and restraining his free-thinking, while Palpatine whispering in his ears about greatness and glory, of course Anakin grew up to be a power-hungry, emotionally unstable jerk. It wasn't just Palpatine, or just Obi-Wan, or just Anakin. It was all three of them. Anakin is easily influenced, yes. Palaptine is a master manipulator, yes. And yes Obi-Wan was a bad teacher.

Yes Anakin had the choise. But because of the way he was brought up, he didn't have the strenght, to make the right one. As anyone who watched EP2 should know.

Again, I'm not blaming Obi-Wan. I know he acted the best way he could, in accordance with his beliefs and hisown upbringing. But regardless of his intentions, he DID fail as Anakin's teacher.

 

If he failed as Anakin's teacher, why did Anakin become a Jedi Knight? Surely if Obi-Wan had failed as a teacher, Anakin should not have been a Jedi Knight, nor should he have taught an Apprentice of his own, nor should Obi-Wan himself have become a Jedi Master and sat on the Council.

Have you considered that all of what Obi-Wan said in Episode 2, Anakin would have learnt these lessons years ago. Why should Obi-Wan have to keep on repeating the lessons if Anakin does not listen? He gives Anakin the weapon is your life lesson. Anakin had just lost his weapon: he was reminding him of that fact, that he needs to be more careful in future. This is one of the first lessons Anakin would have learnt as a Jedi learner. Where else did Obi-Wan show that he was an incompetent teacher in Episode 2?

 

Treating a former slave with all the insecurities he probably had from that like a slave was probably not the wisest call of the Jedi. How can you demand that a former slave call you master and follow all your restrictive rules to the T? It is cruel, almost abusive.

 

Failure in something is not always immediately apparent. In fact, usually some outsider effect, reveals them. Just think about a high-building. It seems a perfectly stable, well-constructed building. Then comes an just a small-powered earthquake, and it comes crashing down, because of some hidden failures in the structure. In Anakin's case, these failures were his background as a slave and his mother's death, Obi-Wan's inability to properly bring him up, and Palpatine's tempting him, all combined, that caused him to collapse under the pressure of fear of losing Padmé.
Had Obi-Wan been a better teacher, and more importantly a more compassionate one, Anakin could've grown up to be a far less unstable, and harder to be influenced person.

 

Pompous? I'd say that's your imagination dude. Worst I said was that I find the idea of anyone besides Anakin being responsible for his actions is silly. Not sure where I came off as scornful.

How exactly was Obi-Wan a terrible teacher in AOTC? He criticized Anakin when he did something foolish, or let his emotions get the best of him; basically when he was acting in an unjedi-like fashion, which is his duty as a teacher. Patting someone on the back when they mess up makes no sense. Obi-Wan actually specifically told Anakin that he needed to think more and not just rush into situations without thinking. He never said what you're claiming he did. Anakin messed up plenty of times in AOTC. Acting like he didn't deserve to be reprimanded makes no sense.

As hlc88 also points out, by AOTC Anakin had been in the Order for nearly a decade, and should've learned all of these lessons years ago, as we've seen with numerous other Padawans who are reaching the point of Knighthood. Despite all of that however, after AOTC and into TCW, we see that Anakin's gone through a significant amount of growth as a person. He's still a maverick, still does things his own way (Not too different from Qui-Gon in fact) but he no longer rushes in to every situation without thinking things through first. His anger still gets the best of him, but he has a better handle on it than he did in the past. He's a more focused person in general than he was in AOTC. Obi-Wan may have sought to restrict his free thinking to a point, but only to keep it within the ideals and rules of the Order. He never said Anakin couldn't have his own thoughts at all, simply that they again must be thoughts capable of being focused, and not all over the place on any random subject.

Finally:

"Yes it was Obi-Wan's fault that Anakin fell to the Dark Side"

Sure sounds like you're blaming him.

 

^I'm personally always shocked by how much people downplay Palpatine's involvement in cases like this, along with acting as if Anakin was some mistreated victim who never made any mistakes.

 

I won't blame Anakin entirely, nor the Jedi (including Obi-Wan) entirely.

Anakin is the one making the choices, nobody else makes them for him. But I also think that the events surrounding Anakin warranted special attention that he did not get. He was treated as any other Jedi (or at least that's the vibe I got in TCW and the films), when he should not have been.

Most Jedi were taken at a sufficiently young age before they develop strong emotional bonds. But Anakin was taken from his mother when he was 9, and nudged into the non-welcoming arms of the Jedi Order so that he may fulfill his destiny of destroying the Sith.

But I can't imagine how ****** up it would be if I were taken from my family at the age of 9, was kept from them for 10 years, and then went looking for them at the age of 19 only to find that they were murdered. That would be like 10 years of having them constantly on my mind, wondering where they are, what they're doing, whether they're thinking of me, etc. With me desperately wanting to see them again but being traumatized in learning they died brutally. I think that warrants very special attention to help Anakin deal with that and I don't get the impression that he got it from the Jedi, while Palpatine just told him what he wanted to hear and reinforced the bad decisions ("hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting revenge, it's natural!")

 

Obi-Wan didn't heed his own advice. That makes anyone a bad teacher. He wanted Anakin to be more careful, to think before he acts, but Obi-Wan himself doesn't do that either (in the movies). He arrogantly challenges Grievous in front of all his troops and jumps out of windows. He even loses his lightsaber.

How can you respect a teacher who doesn't even believe in his own lectures? Most of what he criticizes about Anakin he does himself.

 

Actually the only Sith besides Vader to come back to the light side was Darth Revan, but that was thousands of years before Anakin was born. It possible that he was forgotten.

 

darth jenari, The "pompuos" was refering to stuff like "Revenge of the Sith novelisation, a must read to any Star Wars fan". Do not assume, that just because our opinion differs, I did not read stuff you did. I'm not saying I've read every single EU entry, but I did read my fair share.

And no, it's not warm fuzzies that Anakin needed, but a patient Master like Qui-Gon was. Just compare how Qui-Gon handled Obi-Wan's challenging his judgement about Anakin, and how Obi-Wan reacted to Anakin challenging his authority about protecting Padmé. Qui-Gon explained his reasons, then told Obi-Wan that the question is not their immediate problem. A bit later Obi-Wan came around, and apologized, stating it's not his business to question Qui-Gon about the boy. But when Anakin questioned him, about why they're not investigating the assasination attempts, Obi-Wan went "don't start this again, we'll do as we're told, and you'll learn your place".
Yes, Anakin had a decade to learn how to be a Jedi, but because of the kind of relation he had with Obi-Wan, he could not employ these lessons. The big difference between AotC and TCW Anakin, is that TCW Anakin is no longer an apprentice Obi-Wan can just order to shut up, he's not tortured by visions of his mother, he gets the recognition he always craved, and for the most part he is happy with Padmé. This is why he's less volatile, but still a maverick. But it's a very delicate balance, and anything can topple it, as seen when Obi-Wan played his death, and especially in EP3.

Also being at fault, and being blamed are to different things. Obi-Wan didn't blame himself. He simply admitted he had failed. If in RotJ he said "I made a terrible mistake to think I could instruct him just as well as Yoda." that would be Obi-Wan blaming himself.But they way he said "I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong." is simply a statement of the fact that he is and was a flawed being, who failed to accomplish something.

And that's what I'm doing. I'm simply not turning a blindeye to the fact that Obi-Wan failed as a teacher. But I do not blame him for failing, because there were others involved.

And as I said, it wasn't JUST Anakin, or JUST Obi-Wan, or JUST Palpatine. It was all of them. Anakin was an easily influenced, volatile jerk, and he DOES hold the blame for making a bad choise, and he is responsible and accountable for everything he did. But Palpatine and Obi-Wan had equal parts in the way he turned out to be. Palpatine is to be blamed, because he did it on purpose, wanting to turn Anakin. Obi-Wan is not to be blamed, because he did everything with the best intentions, the best way he could. But he still failed.

The reason I did not want to get too much into who's to blame, is simply because this thread is about Obi-Wan. I do not underestimate the influence Palpatine had, and I'm certainly not trying to lift the responsibility from Anakin. I was simply attempting to point out, that Obi-Wan was a failure in his entire life, which includes his role as Anakin's teacher.

 

I was speaking in general, not saying you hadn't read the work. I was making a statement on the quality of the work, and that everyone should read it, not taking a shot at you in particular. Seems you're the one who's jumping to conclusions friend.

Patient? By the time you see the Obi-Wan and Anakin relationship in AOTC, Anakin's been in the Order for 10 years, and still struggles with basic lessons. I'd say Obi-Wan's been plenty patient. He told Anakin not to start again, because it's something Anakin clearly does all the time. Literally everything Obi-Wan reprimands him for within the movie has an implication that it's been a consistent problem between the 2 for a decade now, and Anakin has still shown no signs of getting over it. That's a problem dude, and not one that Obi-Wan's to blame for. The fact he's not coddling Anakin is a sign that Anakin's no longer a child, and needs to be spoken to like an adult, because he is one. You'll note that though Obi-Wan questioned a decision or two on Qui-Gon's part, he never disobeyed his instructions, or got caught up in his emotions on any random mission. Anakin and Obi-Wan were two different types of students, and therefore required two different approaches.

I'd also say the reasons you believe Anakin grew into a good Knight are poor ones. If Anakin hadn't shown the skill and maturity before become a Knight, to be a Knight, he wouldn't have been Knighted. Showing said skills and maturity are a result of Obi-Wan's training. Obi-Wan was also promoted to Master after Anakin was promoted to Knight, and given a seat on the Jedi Council. He could've ordered Anakin to do whatever he wanted, but never did. Instead, he interacted with him as an equal, spoke and debated with him on various issues, and in general continued to help and teach him long after their official Master/Apprentice relationship had ended. Shmi's death made Anakin more unbalanced. His marriage to Padme, while bringing some measure of happiness, did the same as he was unable to be with her most of the time. Obi-Wan never told him to shut up, and only reprimanded him when he'd earned it. And his need for recognition at all was always part of the problem in the first place, and exactly why Palpatine was always able to play him like a fiddle.

Again, in a previous post you very clearly said you blamed Obi-Wan for Anakin falling to the Dark Side. That's why people question you on it. They're not pulling that statement from the ether. It's in your posts for everyone to see.

After Anakin, i'd say Palpatine had a larger role in his fall than anyone else, including Obi-Wan.

 

Anakin was joining an Order which had rules. Anakin didn't have to be a Jedi. You can't treat someone with different rules because of their backgrounds. It doesn't work like that. If Anakin didn't like referring to Obi-Wan as 'Master' then he should have said. The sad part was, was that Anakin actually had a future with the Jedi - more freedom then he ever had as a Sith where he was a slave categorically. He was nothing more then a slave to Palpatine to carry out the demands he asked of Vader.

Yet, if Obi-Wan had an inability to properly bring up Anakin, Anakin would not have become a Jedi Knight, nor would he have been given a Padawan. Yes, he slaughtered the Tusken Raiders but that isn't Obi-Wan's fault. Obi-Wan tried to teach about letting go of his attachments, but Anakin simply did not listen. Obi-Wan couldn't treat Anakin differently to any other Jedi. Anyone who taught Anakin would have treated him the same as any other Jedi-in-training. Obi-Wan is actually quite compassionate - If you care about someone enough, you let them know their faults and you try to help them improve. That is being compassionate, and Obi-Wan was always helping people when he could.

Anakin wasn't taken from his mother. He chose to go with them. He, unlike a lot of Jedi children, were given that choice to leave his family. His mother also wanted him to go, to find a better life for him. To say that Anakin had no choice, he made the decision to go with Qui-Gon himself. I do think the Council could have at least allowed Anakin contact with his mother every so often, but Anakin shouldn't be treated differently because of his circumstances. The trouble with Anakin is does the Council even know his mother died the way she did? Does Obi-Wan know the full extent of it? Anakin did not trust them... Anakin could have sought them out for help after the event - but everything shows that he didn't. Anakin is at much as fault here, that he couldn't trust anyone. If Anakin hadn't listened to Palpatine who probably told him not to trust Obi-Wan with anything then things may have been different. Even Padme in ROTS wanted to trust Obi-Wan with their secret but Anakin couldn't do it. Anakin couldn't put his faith in the people that were close to him and in the end it led to his downfall.

Obi-Wan knew his Clone Troops were coming when he challenged Grievous. He did that with a plan in mind - Anakin doesn't seem to have a plan, he leaps before he thinks. Granted the jump out of the window you have a point but he was trying to stop the droid from getting away. Losing his lightsaber - that usually happened in duels which he very quickly got his lightsaber back to him. He wasn't like Anakin who had his lightsaber spinning off into Coruscant. He was lucky that Obi-Wan caught it.

There mission was not to investigate the assassination attempt. They were there to protect Senator Amidala. Was Obi-Wan supposed to agree that he would go against the Council to find the killer then when Anakin said it? They had nothing to go on. Yet, when an assassination attempt did occur, they did try to investigate. Anakin blindly assumed they should investigate where their assignment was to protect the Senator. It's clear from Obi-Wan's reaction that Anakin has already asked this before - is Anakin incapable of listening and learning? If Obi-Wan has already told him why they cannot investigate, I actually don't blame him for getting frustrated at Anakin, who is incapable of listening and learning, and doesn't seem to want to follow the rules. All Anakin wants to hear is what he wants to hear.

Obi-Wan was on the Council in TCW and still Anakin's superior so he can order him around and Anakin did respect him, but did still do what he wanted within reason. He didn't blindly disobey for no reason like he did as a Padawan.

 

It didn't come across like that.

You're contradicting yourself. Don't you think, if this had been a constant problem with Anakin for a long time, probably Obi-Wan should've figured-out, that he's doing something wrong? And *gasp* should've tried a different approach.

And yet, Obi-Wan talks to Anakin like he is a child, who hasn't learnt not to look into the emitter of the lightsaber. He doesn't treat Anakin as an adult, not even as a teenager.

No, I didn't say I BLAME Obi-Wan. I said I think he was at FAULT. Being blamed, and being at fault are two different things, and if people can't grasp their mind around that, it's their problem. I think I explained myself clearly.

Difference of opinions. I think they all had at least equal part, but you have every right to disagree. We're unlikely to convince eachother, so let's just leave it.

 

Difference of opinions. I think they all had at least equal part, but you have every right to disagree. We're unlikely to convince eachother, so let's just leave it.[/quote]


That's how it was written.

Why do you assume Obi-Wan's the one doing something wrong, if Anakin fails time and again? After a 10 year period, given the type of person/character Obi-Wan is, i'd say there's a reason he's so frustrated with his student. Seems to me like it's Anakin who should've learned and grown, instead of clinging to the past and his emotions, repeating the same mistake again and again.

If he was treating Anakin like a child, he'd be coddling him. Instead he's straight forward with Anakin, pointing out the mistakes Anakin's made, and that he's been making them time and again. Sounds exactly like how a teenager and young adult should be talked to. Whereas you have Palpatine constantly praising Anakin and making it seem like Anakin can do no wrong, puffing up Anakin's ego and sense of importance, while acting as if his flaws aren't really flaws.

You don't seem to understand what blaming someone actually means. Laying blame on someone's shoulder means you're placing the responsibility for a certain situation, mistake, scenario, with them. In short, blaming someone for something, is placing the fault with that person.

Indeed, agree to disagree.

 

What choices did Anakin have? Go back to Tatooine, be a slave? And later he was a Jedi of the order with little contacts to the outside. If you are part of one little cult it is hard to leave. And if you are a slave for such a long time, it is hard to get out of it too. You get used to it, sadly.

And I do think he was sort of a slave to the Jedi, with all the talk of masters and having to obey them. Like when they forced Anakin to spy on Palpatine.

Heck, he had more personal freedom as Vader because at least he could buy whatever property he wanted and sleep with whoever he wanted, while as a Jedi he wasn't even allowed to have any property and/or relationships.

Anakin was a fool, that's for sure, but his master was just as foolish. Obi-Wan was very, very lucky he didn't get killed right on the spot when he leaped into the midst of a separatist army. What an incredibly stupid and arrogant tactic, no matter whether he had clone backup or not. I can hardly think of anything that shows tactical ingenuity in the PT.