Has the integrity of the Star Wars Saga been damaged?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Davo, Nov 29, 2002.

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  1. Darth-Davo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    -Topic-

    By the likes of Jar-Jar and the other comical elements of the prequels. True there was comic relief in Threepio, in the classic trilogy, but it never descended into the 'pooyousa' fart gag in Ep I.

    What are people's thoughts.
  2. dArTh_wenley Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2001
    star 5

    True the critics bash Jar Jar Binks etc. true some fans bash Jar Jar. But has it turned us off Star Wars? Are we ebarrassed to be Star Wars fans? No!
  3. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    If you're asking if Star Wars is as cool as before? No.

    There are some good moments, but not as cool.

    Mace windu
    Padme
    Jar Jar

    What are all these new characters doing? I don't think of them as cool.

    In the other trilogy we had

    Tarkin
    Han Solo
    Lando Calrissian

    Much cooler and much edgier.

    But I still hold out hope....
  4. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Without doubt; Yes. I dont know what the hell Lucas is doing.
  5. Mace Windy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 1999
    star 6
    Star Wars has never been cool where I come from....





    :cool: Mace Windy,
    making the evasion of spoilers look breezy!
  6. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    I remember SW being cool

    AT-AT's
    AT-ST's
    Snow speeders
    Snow troopers
    Grey uniformed Imperial officers
    Han
    Chewie
    Luke
    Millenium Falcon

    But I still hold out hope for Ep III.
    It only takes one good movie.
  7. DarthMak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 5
    I certainly think that the childish elements of the prequels and special editions have hurt the saga somewhat, but i'm still a fan.
  8. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    But I still hold out hope for Ep III.
    It only takes one good movie.


    And if it isn't "good," will you leave, and not just hang around complaining about how much you hated all the prequels, like so many bashers do?

    Please?
  9. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
  10. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I remember SW being cool when I was a small child, and then incredibly uncool when I was a teenager. If you were a SW fan, you didn't dare talk about it if you didn't want to be laughed at and mocked.

    And this was LONG before any of the prequels.

    So about the prequels making SW uncool, I say, coolness is cyclical. If SW isn't cool right now, well, too bad, but I always thought that if you really loved the movies, you would even if they weren't cool.
  11. Annbri Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 1
    Hey, I don't mind being a starwars fan, even if it's not "cool," but isn't it cool to have our dear movies praised by the cynical masses, and our knowledge of all things Star Wars coveted?

    Hey, it would be nice!

    In my town, Star Wars is cool. It's D&D that's not, but that's a different story.
  12. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    But you see Shelley the OT is always cool (ok, except ewoks) designs etc...

    While the PT is not as cool.

    It's not that I'm afraid of anybody else's opinion of Star Wars.

  13. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    But you see Shelley the OT is always cool (ok, except ewoks) designs etc...

    No, it isn't always cool, ksid. It was very, very uncool in the mid- to late-80s.

    While the PT is not as cool.

    It is to me, and to a lot of people.
  14. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    While the PT is not as cool.

    It is to me, and to a lot of people


    To me too, but not all elements of it.
  15. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4

    And if it isn't "good," will you leave, and not just hang around complaining about how much you hated all the prequels, like so many bashers do?


    Nah. I still love the Star Wars universe and will have my opinion's of it, which are not one-dimensional.

    Therefore, I would prefer it if you stopped putting me in a box as a "basher".

    And, putting other people in a box as well. Different people criticize TPM and/or AOTC for different reasons. Don't label them.

    I was discussing the title of the thread. And which I gave example's of.

    Unlike you, who didn't give any example's of how the integrity has been retained. Instead just explaining away with a definition.




  16. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    Shelly I was talking in terms of Design, Character development, Incoherant story (some themes are good, but they are undeveloped, and no tie-in to TPM) etc...

    I don't care what other people say, (I don't know why you do, since you keep bringing it up) so all this cyclical, non-cyclical stuff doesn't come into play.

    So, there you go, that's why I think coolness factor-wise, the OT is better than the PT. And, the integrity of the Star Wars saga has been damaged.





  17. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    Truth be known, I'm finding myself liking the Prequels more than the originals. The Prequels are told better storywise, better visual effects, better action scenes and the locations that are used.

    But the Classic Trilogy, being where I begun my adventure, I like the characters better and the technology is more familiar to me than the Prequels. I'll take the X-Wing over the Naboo Starfighter anyday.

    Soon we won't be having this discussion about Classic and Trilogy. They'll come under one name. Star Wars Sega.

    Has the integrity of the Star Wars Saga been damaged?

    For some people. Not for me though.
  18. dinoX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    the only thing recently i have to shake my head about is the PR people at LucasFilm. Yo Da Man. What in the HELL were they thinking? Sure lets be "hip" and all, but when somebody sees that commercial in 10 years I'm sure they'll be like "eww". I'm already disgusted by it, and I'm a HUGE fan and have been for 20 years.
  19. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    See Jedi_Learner that's what I'm expecting! arguments from the other side!

    None of this, you're wrong! That's your opinion (of course it's my opinion)! It's all cyclical mumbo-jumbo!

    I want elaboration that's all. Why the integrity of the SW saga has not been damaged, from your pov.

    I've stated my reasons why I think the OT is cooler! Now state your reason why you think the PT is just as, if not more cooler.

    Don't get defensive, just explain.

    Good job J_L. You have controlled your fear.

    Now....

    btw, J_L I do think certain elements of the PT are cool.
  20. dolphin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    I didn't know Star Wars had much integrity.
  21. Rep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 1
    I get what this discussion is trying to inspire, but the title makes people touchy. Who said that thing about Padme, Mace Windu, and Jar-Jar? Well, maybe the last one didn't need to be sooo annoying, but they all have a purpose, George isn't stupid. In my old high school English class, what...four years ago...we studied A New Hope and wrote essays on it about archetypes and story elements, etc. I actually don't know why I'm posting here... I'm just throwing thoughts out so don't go quoting and analyzing me. But when people dicuss which movies they think are "better", I've found myself asking myself which movie I enjoy watching the most. It's not about which movie has the best acting, best plot, etc. It's which movie you would watch again and again and keep watching. Think about it... ask yourself...which movie do you enjoy? For me, I've realized its Attack of the Clones. Granted, I watched the OT endless times as a child. But I've watched AOTC 24 times now, and still enjoy it.

    Actually, its really about what will make money, but we'll leave that out of this. But yeah, there are my thoughts, wierd tho they be.
  22. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    This isn't high school. Screw "cool."
  23. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Considering TPM and AOTC are the fourth and fifth films in a series that's been around over 25 years, and they still do great BO and DVD sales, I'd say no.
  24. Lord_Makro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2002
    star 2
    Ok, i will explain why the prequels are better than the original trilogy.
    First off all, i believe that most people who say that "Han Solo was cool",
    or "The Empire was cool" or anyway that "the original trilogy is better
    than the prequels" are doing so because these are the legendary movies
    that they grew up with. I know this because i also remember these original
    films with nostalgia, and because of them i have become a huge Star Wars
    fan. Hey, even Darth Vader is my favorite character!
    But, if you look closely at the new films without the special emotional
    attach to the original films, you will actually understand that the prequels
    are superior. And to further explain my thoughts, i'm not saying so because
    of all the improved effects and designs. I'm basicaly talking about the
    STORY of the prequels, which is much complicated and multi-leveled.
    I'm talking about the story of how Darth Sidius/Palpatine gets to establish
    the Empire, and all the political machinations that led to the world we see
    in the original films. This complexity is also what leads many critics to write
    bad reviews for the new Star Wars - they don't know what the films are
    about! (I remember reading a review for TPM on a magazine from someone
    who didn't understand that Darth Sidius is Palpatine and that Palpatine is
    the future Emperor - how do you expect him to understand the deeper
    levels of the story?).
    For me, AOTC is better than ep4 and ep6, as for ep5 i think it may still be
    the best Star Wars film (but maybe i do so because of the nostalgia!)
  25. ksid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2002
    star 4
    foxbat I don't think they mean cool in the terms you are thinking of.


    Marko here go with the old nostalgia cliche again...Marko how come many of the fans who "get it" that Palpatine is Sidious and all the political machinations (so-called complex) find problems with the PT*? And that it's quite a substantial number of them?


    But anyway, why should the PT be so "complex" that the General Audience don't "get it"?




    *Not that the PT don't have many good elements.
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