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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga Has the Lucas hate affected anyone else's feelings about SW?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Obironsolo, May 10, 2015.

  1. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Perhaps.

    I would suggest (not assume, and feel free to disregard my suggestion) that it was something other than SW that was the basis for your bond. I'd say it was the people themselves. SW was just a convenient way to meet. I'm assuming there's much more than their fondness for Star Wars that makes them your friends.

    I wouldn't say I have any real friendships with anyone here. But thinking about the people I have "bonded" with, it wasn't really over what movies they like, or even why. The bond was with them. Their personality, their humor, their intelligence, their character, the way they interact with me, their behavior.

    You like Star Wars. I like Star Wars. Does this mean we have a bond? An initial basis for a bond, even? Not really. The same goes for many of the people that frequent here. That was my point.


    They aren't. But hundreds or even thousands of people that come here are strangers. They're not automatically more than strangers because they like Star Wars. No?

    Of course, that was just my personal disinterest. I'm well aware that many people are interested in the people behind the camera. Directors, producers, writers, etc.
     
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  2. Ingram_I

    Ingram_I Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Despite already being said, I too must stress the distinction that subjective criticisms of Lucas' prequel trilogy endeavor and artistic choices in general are fine. Better than fine, actually—interesting, stimulating, at least potentially. Unfortunately, things seldom work out that way.

    Disinformation, discrediting, false narratives and, on a deeper, more fundamental level, anti-intellectualism matched with a pop-culture predicated on arrested development ...such is the common currency. People are easy: they group. Whenever Lucas and/or his prequels gets targeted, do I take offense? Well, yeah, sometimes. On that point, however, I feel a second distinction must be stressed: this technically isn't about defending George Lucas himself. I mean, really, the guy's a billionaire with a lifetime of lofty ambitions fulfilled; with production companies, studios and a movie ranch built in his name, and a major city-bidding museum on the way. He is by far the most unprecedented, industry-independent filmmaking mogul ever. He's 70 years old, married to a savvy and successful black chick a quarter century his junior, who just recently mothered his fourth child. He still has great hair. The dude doesn't need my help. I'm not saying he wasn't stung by all the negative backlash (I'm sure he was), only that his aforesaid cap of feathers is more than enough to keep steam in any man's stride.

    The reason I care has to do with my own piece of mind. Whenever favoring a work of art, I therein have made an emotional and intellectual investment. Its qualities illustrate or illuminate my own interests, sensibilities and artistic standards, in turn becoming a part of my identity. The same goes for others whom I hold in high esteem based on their character and achievements. By this, I don't mean that, to hurt Lucas' feelings is to hurt my feelings. No, that would be ridiculous. But to thoughtlessly mock the choices he's made (and remade) with his work -- the driving mindset -- is to mock an approach to the medium in which I share and principles of self-expression to which I aspire. Again, it's not about Lucas; it's about me. Of course I understand that haters aren't slandering me personally, knowingly, but they are slandering what I value. And what a person values is much of who they are. When I contend, it's not about proving every naysayer wrong or convincing the world why my values must be respected. It's not about "winning". That's also ridiculous. But goddammit, there is nonetheless an integrity in speaking up for one's intellectual worth.

    All that being said, I typically don't care enough to throw down over every flippant GL/PT potshot across the endless spectrum of the internet. I'm rather selective in that regard. As for Star Wars itself, those six movies have for me attained 'Force ghost' status. I still enjoy them fully, without taint, in the company of my own living room and, otherwise, within the domain that is my own mind.
     
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  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I really don't get emotionally invested in entertainment of any kind. It's there to entertain me, and when I am no longer entertained, I move on. That's why I don't care if it entertains someone else.

    I get emotionally invested in real life issues, but when I come to a place like this, it's to get away from those and have fun. I've met a lot of great people here but among those with whom I've formed a connection, Star Wars had little to do with it. And if I get upset or even annoyed here, it's over something more real than "he/she hates a movie I like."

    As far as TFA, I haven't even paid attention to what Abrams and Kennedy think of Lucas and his work because I don't care, I just hope the movie is good.
     
  4. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Thanks everyone for responding to this. I can honestly say that I personally feel so much better hearing from so many others that basically feel the same way.

    I also agree that nothing anyone can say will ever affect my love of the movies.
     
  5. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Creative works express and explore real life issues in creative ways. I like *thinking* My Little Brother Mal says 'Thinking is your fun' and he's right.

    The fact that people are fans and here for different reasons is great. I enjoy it a lot when it isn't boiled all down to 'I'm right, you're wrong'.

    I haven't really invested in most of the gossip and rumours about TFA. 1999 taught me a hard lesson but I learned it well. Investing into rumours is dangerous and potentially very damaging and upsetting as many here bare out. Don't need that, thanks. Cry enough as it is (for many reasons).

    CT: Thanks for your thoughts. I value my Brothers very much as people yet I meant what I said. Star Wars was the inital foundation of the bond for me. Rick didn't bash me for thinking Dooku was handsome or awesome and Mal gave me an ear regarding my Sir when I needed it in a bleak period in my life. I know how my bonds start for me.
     
  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    This.
     
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  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    My feelings for the Saga haven't changed. My feelings on the fandom though...
     
  8. EternalHero

    EternalHero Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2014
    I don't look at any SW related press anymore unless it is written by fans who support GL and the whole Saga.

    One way I deal with this phenomenon is to enjoy other Lucas projects. Haters are unfamiliar with 95% of his work: THX11; American Graffiti; More American Graffiti; Labyrinth; Tucker; Mishima; Radioland Murders; Willow; The Land Before Time; Young Indiana Jones; Red Tails; Strange Magic; old LucasArts games; books like the Shadow War Chronicles trilogy; Blockbusting, a 1,000 page history of the Hollywood blockbuster from the silent era to 2005; there's tons of great, fascinating stuff! Fanboys/girls just assume that it all sucks and have nothing to say about them :)
     
  9. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    No. Others' opinions are interesting to hear, but at the end of the day I'll take the films as I find them myself.
     
  10. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Honestly I think I've made a lot of friends here... well granted I don't know everyone personally at all really, but for example anakinfan, cushing's admirer, force smuggler, iron lord, and MANY others (especially the folks over in TV, gaming, Fanfiction, and EU) I have enjoyed talking with here about star wars and it helps with my depression/boredom/real life stress.

    I don't know you guys all that well but you all seem pretty cool! :p

    Anyways yea Lucas gets way to much flak. The man isn't perfect but the hate he gets is borderline psychotic. (The trend has gotten worse with the popularity of the RLM reviews.) I have learned to ignore the haters for the most part though.
     
  11. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    to be honest: no. I don't get the hate for Lucas either, he's a film-maker who has done what he wants with with his own money- regarding PT anyway-. To that I say good luck to the guy, if he wants to put a slapstick alien into his movie, great, it's HIS movie and us fans shouldn't feel as if we OWN the franchise, if we don't like it, eh, either moan on the internet (where you have a chance of at least half the people listen to you, unlike people in your real life who probably don't care at best or have no idea what your rant is about at worst) or find another franchise that suits your tastes.

    I do think Lucas can be his own worst enemy at times though and says things that he knows himself to be false. An example: during AOTC he did a shot for ROTS in which Obi-Wan gives Owen the baby Luke. Asked what happens if he needs another shot Lucas straight faced says "then I don't get it". Cut forward a few years later he's redone the whole scene, this time Obi-Wan giving the baby to Beru instead...via green screen. So I do have sympathy for the people the say Lucas blurs lines between telling the truth and lying, something he probably cannot help...who knows.

    Finally though, my heart isn't into Star Wars as it once was, but that has nothing to do with Lucas or the films but the fandom. The fandom that can treat you like garbage or as someone "who doesn't get it" if you don't love everything 100 per cent SW, now that is what gets to me.

    As a side I do agree with the OP about Kathleen Kennedy and not speaking up about the hate for the PT, the old saying "with friends like that..." comes to mind.
     
  12. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    IMHO there's really no place for hate when discussing things like films. If you're devoting energy to hating films or film makers ... you need to go home and rethink your life! :p

    On the other hand, I think the term hate might be a bit overused at times. I don't think it's healthy to be overly defensive or precious about things that one holds dear. Doing so can sometimes lead to confusing robust, lively debate and criticism for hatred. They're not the same thing.
     
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  13. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    I don't think it's healthy to be overly defensive or precious about things that one holds dear
    ----------

    when it comes to fandoms I agree

    but then I think of things that hold dear to me and I get mad when people criticize that so...

    we humans, we're a hypocritical lot :p
     
  14. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    If it's your child or your mother or deeply held religious convictions, fair enough. If it's your favourite movie, just let it go! :p
     
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  15. Bowen

    Bowen Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 1999
    At the risk of sounding obsessive, as an atheist, Star Wars is akin to a religion for me ;) I mean, I have actually made many bonds through the saga and through its fans, I have so many amazing memories from the saga, and it always gives me something to look forward to in the future. That being said, I don't really take offense if someone doesn't like the movies, but I do get defensive to some extent I won't lie. Certainly it's a way different reaction than if you told me, "I didn't like Gladiator," which is a movie I think is fantastic. I would just go, "Oh, well, that's too bad. I really liked it!" Even if they just rattled off a bunch of criticisms, I would probably try to move on in the interest of diplomacy. I'm not the same way with Star Wars. I would definitely defend the films and argue with the person. In a respectful manner, but I would make sure they understood their opinion isn't universal so they don't go around saying, "Yeah, everyone I know hated the prequels." At least they're going to say, "Everyone but this one guy..." lol

    I am not saying that I think just liking Star Wars means we all have a lot in common by any means, but ANYTHING can be a good way to meet people and form a bond if you have one thing in common initially. I met my best friend now about 9 years ago doing Taekwon-Do and it didn't mean we had a ton in common just because we were training at the same place, but we ended up going on a trip to South Korea and China together through the school, realized we had a lot of other things in common, had a great time laughing about random things, and now we play a lot of the same video games, we both still highly value fitness (he's about to be working for a local police department; he was only 17 when we first met), etc. So Star Wars can be a leaping off point where you start talking to someone, realize maybe you both are big movie buffs, and who knows what else you have in common? I met so many awesome people at the Star Wars Celebration and even though I think some of those people will be in the "friends for a day" crowd as I haven't kept in touch with most of them, we had a blast while we were there. I probably had about 10 people I hung out with for at least a few hours and laughed and chatted about all kinds of random stuff from football to Star Wars to girls to whatever else. I'm not saying Star Wars deserves full credit, but I wouldn't have been in Anaheim without it and wouldn't have met all these cool people and had these awesome memories.
     
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  16. The Most Cunning Jedi

    The Most Cunning Jedi Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2014
    I barely just found out George is 70 a few days ago... I think he looks amazing.
    As for the haters, people love a dead celeb...
    George may not be getting his due right now but the day he leaves us, the geek world will probably be bawling their eyes out in one collective tear-fest ;)
     
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  17. ArtSchmo

    ArtSchmo Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 2, 2015
    Not in the slightest.
    George doesn't get enough credit for his achievements. Star Wars is a way of life form me, and George is the genius behind it. I love the universe he created, and there is hardly any piece of Star Wars media that I actively dislike.
    What HAS affected my feelings about Star Wars is the overwhelming negativity that is perpetuated by nostalgic, older portion of the fandom who just can't stand to see things change. Younger people join in on it, instead of forming their own honest opinions, because Lucas-bashing is now fashionable and they're afraid of being rejected for their unpopular "minority" opinion. Afraid of social exclusion.

    I love the whole of Star Wars, because I love the universe and the timeless characters. Some stories hold up better than others, but that's how it goes with any media franchise that is as vast as Star Wars and has continuous storylines. You can't expect everything to be gold. There's bound to be some disappointments along the way, and to many fans, the prequels were those disappointments. I can understand that, but I don't agree on it. They're always gonna be there, whether you like it or not. Time to accept it, just as we've accepted Disney's acquisition of the franchise, and move on with your ultimately meaningless existence.
     
  18. Ananta Chetan

    Ananta Chetan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2013
    I tend to put the blame more on the internet as a medium of communication since it came into its own about the same time as the PT. It is relatively easy to hide behind an ambiguous avatar image and be insensitive and lash out in a way that I would guess 90% of people would not dare to do if they were standing face to face with a living & breathing being. Maybe we will collectively mature in time and become disillusioned and bored with treating each other disrespectfully in the virtual world.
     
  19. only one kenobi

    only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2012
    To be honest..I've not really seen much hate. Maybe its these boards which are well run (I don't frequent other Star Wars boards so I have no idea if this is an oasis of reason in those terms)...I mean, I frequent science boards, atheist boards and.....Cheeses, the vitriol there dwarfs anything here...and, you should try historical linguists... You don't know hate until you've dealt with historical linguists.

    * I guess this could be seen as a kind of thumbs-up to the management of these boards :) (I'm happy to take gratuities btw...just saying..)
     
  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    The hate here is not as bad as it was before. Though then, a good portion were just trolls. The real hate can be found on places like Ain't It Cool News.
     
  21. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Whenever I hear the usual uninformed, ignorant rantings of anyone bashing GL (or the PT for that matter), my reaction nowadays is simply:


    :rolleyes:
     
  22. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    It's not simply 'younger fans' running the risk of 'social exclusion' for 'minority opinions' it's basically anyone that likes Pre-Mouse content. Even here you see plenty of baiting and other nonsense about trying to force 'all new or nothing'. That's not helpful either.
     
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  23. Ananta Chetan

    Ananta Chetan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2013
    [​IMG]

    Some members of preceding generations never knew how cool GL was or what a trailblazing genius he was in the world of film.
     
  24. Darth Raiden

    Darth Raiden Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2013
    It'll Be Michael Jackson all over again
     
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  25. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Many of the most well-respected and inspiring artists in history were either not very well known, or were even more controversial than famous-until after their death...
     
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