has the PT, especially ROTS, captured the essence that was present in the OT?

The PT was darker and more serious that is why it does NOT capture the essense of the OT. It was never meant to capture that. The PT shows us the world of the Old Republic, in all of its glory. It is a much more serious, "civilized" time. When I first saw TPM, the opening sequence with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, I thought how awesome the Jedis were which makes the events of the subsequent movies AOTC and ROTS all the more tragic. Everything in the PT is shiny and newer because it was a democracy. After the Empire took over, it bled the planets of resources and make the OT look beat-up and old. ROTS is an excellent bridge to the OT. The OT is more light and fun because we are looking at the story of Anakin's children. They were never meant to be the Chosen One. Luke and Leia never had the pressure from the time they were 9 to save the galaxy. They also have some of Padme in them which makes for a good combination. It parallels our own history. In the 18th century, the world was more formal especially in Europe where most wealthy countries were located. When the USA won their independence, the world was very different from 100 years later when we had the expanding frontier and Wild West. Things were a lot less civilized in the years following the Civil War because the world changed. It is the same with the PT and OT. The galaxy had changed and Lucas shows us how brillantly, I think.

 

I hope the T.V. Show captures the essenceof the OT. The first 2 prequels to me didn't but I felt the third did a very good job connecting the two and I felt the essence.

 

I thought TPM did what ANH did, set up the rest of the trilogy. TPM was meant to introduce a new generation to SW and it did so - much to the chagrine of the old schoolers. It wasn't too much about advancing the story as it was an introduction to the players. I do agree with GTyper (for just this once ) that the PT is for the Instant Gratification generation with all of the CG (even though that's what GL really wanted for the whole saga and the OT would be all CGed if done today). But I feel it did a good job immersing us in a GFFA.

I think that AOTC was to pacify the old schoolers after the letdown of TPM in their eyes. But for reference, I am a 30 something who has TPM as my #2 right behind co #1s ESB and ROTS, while AOTC is #6. AOTC served its purpose to move the story towards ROTS, but I don't think it captured the essence.

To compare TPM and AOTC, look at Box Office. While a lot of people put AOTC up high on their list, it made a very small box office compared to TPM. If TPM was so terrible as so many have it at the bottom of their list, it must have done something right in terms of the "essence of SW". Especially compared to AOTC. And before you throw out Spidey 2, all of that money that TPM made was still on tons of repeat viewers. Where were they for AOTC if it is so great?

ROTS obviously does since it has so many mirrors and parallels to ANH, being only 20 years in front of it. ROTS just kicks arse (sorry for the gush), but GL got it right IMO. I tell you what, watching ANH for the first time after ROTS, when Vader steps on to the Tantive IV, gave me goosebumps that I don't ever get watching ANH. And as crappy as the Vader-Kenobi duel was, it has a lot more meaning now. You don't get that if ROTS isn't what it is.

So to answer the question, yes.

 

sorry, but...

bump...

 

at age <10 I still understood and enjoyed Star Wars ... and it was absent slap stick comedy and fart jokes.


Fart Jokes were absent in the OT. However, slap stick was very much in attendance.

The question is did the PT capture the "essence" of the OT? I couldn't possibly presume to define what that essense is, and I would think it's probably different for everyone. I will say though that the PT very much provided me with the kind of "magic feeling" (to paraphrase Jedi Master Ousley) that I got from the OT.

 

the prequels had a good story its just that to me they were too dull, except for rots. also the mythical elements were missing instead it focused more on politics

 

Truly - if you REALLY dig into the first Star Wars, it isn't anything that special. It was just different in comparison to the norm of the time.

Actually it is that special . It's the greatest adventure story I've ever seen . It was the first film where I really felt transported, like those worlds really existed, because Lucas and co. actually made those environments real with the story and production design etc.

SW was really the first film to say - look anything is possible on film, not just SFX but the whole way of telling a story, it was the first one to really synthesise different genres (and not in an ironic way) it said - you can mix Arthurian myth with WWII and Samurai and Flash Gordon .
Before SW SF films were considered for kids and geeks, that's why studios were scared of spending money on them , SW changed all that and grabbed the general public .

20 years later it was re-issued in the cinema to huge success, no other film has ever had a re-issue that successful, ET tried it in 2002 and it hardly made a buck .
And the more you look into SW the more special it becomes, it wasn't that easy, plenty of others have failed at doing what SW did - including Lucas now .


What would you have thought of the prequels if you saw them back in, say, 1980 when you were younger? Would you as an 8 year old, or somewhere in your preteens complained about acting and dialogue? LOL, no you would not have

Well it's no use using the under 10's as a barometer, they pretty much like anything with enough whizzes and bangs cos everything's new to them . But IMO if TPM had been the first SW film - it wouldve been the last, it would not have cut across to the general public like the OT did , TPM just doesn't have the characters to keep a good compelling story going .


The PT was darker and more serious that is why it does NOT capture the essense of the OT

Well tpm certainly wasn't more serious or darker than the OT.

The OT is more light and fun because we are looking at the story of Anakin's children. They were never meant to be the Chosen One. Luke and Leia never had the pressure from the time they were 9 to save the galaxy.

Hang on, no-one says that Anakin has to save the galaxy from the time he's 9 , the prophecy just predicts this important destiny that he has .
Luke has it harder, he doesn't grow up with the support of loads of jedi, Luke is effectively the only jedi, he doesn't get the girl, his dad turns out to be an evil bastard and his mentor a liar . And he has to save the galaxy .


In the 18th century, the world was more formal especially in Europe where most wealthy countries were located. When the USA won their independence, the world was very different from 100 years later when we had the expanding frontier and Wild West. Things were a lot less civilized in the years following the Civil War because the world changed. It is the same with the PT and OT. The galaxy had changed and Lucas shows us how brillantly, I think.

Well I'm not sure that analogy works since in SW the move is away from democracy from PT to OT, but in your analogy the history moves more towards democracy. no?


g

 

I think the opening 20-25 minutes of ROTS (and pretty much everything with Obi-Wan/Grievous on Utapau) had the same feeling of fun and adventure that is very prominant in ANH and ROTJ, and to me feels very "Star Wars". The friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan (and the interaction with R2) through the early stages of the film is just as well done IMO as any of those done in the OT, the whole rescuing the Chancellor sequence to me has the same magic as Luke and Han trying to rescue Leia on the Death Star or the Sail Barge assault in Jedi.

 

I like the PT better than the OT. I grew up with Anakin Skywalker. Not Luke. I am in the new Generation. As I said, I grew up with Anakin, watched him mature, and fall from the light. Even though the first film I saw was ESB. I was caught up in the hype for TPM. I rented it on VHS and watched it from start to finish. Pure magic. I love the OT. But I like the PT more, because I gew up with it.

 

In some ways, it has, but in other ways, it hasn't. That's okay, though, because it's really not supposed to capture all of the essence of the OT. The PT is the tragedy portion of the SW saga, the OT the comedy -- which, by the way, originally didn't mean something funny, but rather something that didn't end tragically.

 

No, and I don't think it was intended to. Now ROTS because it tied right into ANH, felt more like the OT, but unfortunately, many people were expecting 3 more OT movies.

After time, I started to realize where Lucas was going with the story, and I was really glad he did it this way. Right after I saw TPM on opening night , I said to my friend a couple of things, but I feel differently now:

1. I hate the droid army, I miss the stormtroopers, the stormtroopers were really cool. Answer: You are not suppose to like them, and that is why Sidious creates the clonetroopers because they are superior.

2. There just doesn't seem to be a villain like Darth Vader was in the OT. The emperor is in it for 5 minutes, Darth Maul is in it for 5 minutes. Answer: That is why it is called The Phantom Menace, because the good guys think they're fighting the bad guys, but the ultimate bad guy is pulling the strings.

3. Young Anakin at 10 years old, I want to see him kick ass! Answer: Now we see the complete arc of Anakin from cute kid to mass murderer.

My whole point is many people from the OT generation went into the prequels expecting more of the OT, but Lucas went a different way and took us on a ride toward the macro-world of Star Wars, instead the micro-world of the OT(Han, Luke, Leia, Vader, etc.) The prequels have many things going on, but overall they are about Anakin. The OT is about the rebels vs. the Empire, end of story.

While I still think alot of TPM was too kiddy, and some of AOTC was, I really liked the story because it didn't resemble the feel of the OT. Sure the OT has the magic, because you root for the good guys for 3 straight movies, and you learn to love them. In the prequels, everyone is a grey-area guy, even the jedi, and all have their motives toward each situation. Anakin was confused and made wrong choices, the jedi were naive and were too status-quo, Padme was blinded by love, and was torn between what she knew was right, and what was right. Palplatine got to where he was at legitimately, and then he ruled with an iron fist.

How can root for characters like that? I don't think there is any magic when describing the main characters of the prequels. It was a tragedy, and that is why you don't feel like you do after the first time you watched ANH.

I still love the OT more, because overall I do think they are better, but I am learning to really appreciate the story arc of the prequels: A Tragedy for EVERYONE.

 

Brilliant post colivo,I applaude you!

 

but isn't the "essence" of SW in the OT:
- the excitement of the special effects (motion capture, hyperspace jump, etc.)
- the creation of aliens and alien worlds (the cantina scene, jabba's palace)
- execution of a story with archeatypical characters (black v white, good v bad, villian v hero, rescuing the princess, etc).

Wasn't it these things that drew in the kids and their imaginations?

Look at the PT
special effects (while too much CG at times, Jar Jar, Yoda)
aliens and alien worlds (Watto, gungans, geonosis, mustafar)
execution of a story - the tragedy of the downfall of a man

I do agree that GL went a different direction than most OT fans were expecting, but the story presented and worlds created were still well within that GFFA - especially TPM and ROTS.

 

Maybe not, but who really cares. The lightsaber duels were freakin awesome man.

 

To me TPM and ROTS absolutely did! I remember when i first saw TPM--it was like i was eight years old again! The excitment, the wonder, the thrills. AOTC was sort of weird--i liked it a lot, but it had this sort of undiscribable quality to it that just felt a little empty--but the last half of the film was astounding. Still, something just felt un-starwarsy about it.
ROTS of course returned to the same adventure and weight that i felt when i saw TPM--it had humour, action, excitment and a damn compelling plot.

I think that people who say the PT failed to capture the "magic" of the OT have simply outgrown it. Part of the problem is that the OT was so shockingly original--so unlike anything that had ever been done--that it shocked adults out of its sheer ingenuity in style and graphics. For kids of course it had a sense of awe and mystery and great, funny characters. A lot of OT fanboys despise the PT but when i look at the reaction of kids under 16 or so their reaction is exactly the same as it was when the OT came out--they love it! Kids love jar jar, they find the films exciting, visually inspiring, the plots compelling, the characters funny and deep, and the story resonates with them. I dont mean to sound like a gusher or anything, but i genuinely do believe that a lot of the old OT viewers have in fact "outgrown" in a sense the style and quality of the original star wars--the nostalgia of the OT hides the same bumps and cracks that marr the PT.

Now i suppose you could point to LOTR and cite a prime example of an epic fantasy series that had touched kids as well as adults, but Jacksons films are aimed at adults--Lucas on the other hand aimed his saga at children; not even teens but pre-teens. That makes a big difference.

Anyway, i can sense a gusher-basher debate brewing, but i will just say that for the most part the PT captured the essence of the OT, and ROTS perhaps best of all.

 

3. Young Anakin at 10 years old, I want to see him kick ass!Answer: Now we see the complete arc of Anakin from cute kid to mass murderer.

Well when I heard that the story started with anakin as a child I thought it was an excellent idea. unfortunately the execution was poor, that kid certainly isn't cute, he's just ... dull .

My whole point is many people from the OT generation went into the prequels expecting more of the OT,

Well I'm sure they were hoping for OT quality but I highly doubt that they were expecting more OT - they knew these were prequels, they knew the classic characters wouldn't be there and they knew where the story was going to end in tragedy.

but Lucas went a different way and took us on a ride toward the macro-world of Star Wars, instead the micro-world of the OT(Han, Luke, Leia, Vader, etc.) The prequels have many things going on, but overall they are about Anakin. The OT is about the rebels vs. the Empire, end of story.


I don't understand, you're saying that the PT is a macro story but that it's mainly about anakin ?
And the OT is a micro-world which is about the rebels vs. the empire , but if it's about the rebels vs. the empire isn't that a macro story ?

It was a tragedy, and that is why you don't feel like you do after the first time you watched ANH.

But everyone knows it ends in tragedy, and ROTS has been the most popular of the PT (even amongst bashers) , so I don't see how you're reasoning adds up.

Sure the OT has the magic, because you root for the good guys for 3 straight movies, and you learn to love them. In the prequels, everyone is a grey-area guy, even the jedi, and all have their motives toward each situation. Anakin was confused and made wrong choices, the jedi were naive and were too status-quo, Padme was blinded by love, and was torn between what she knew was right, and what was right. Palplatine got to where he was at legitimately, and then he ruled with an iron fist.

Well the OT isn't simply good guys vs. bad . Han keeps us guessing throughout ANH . Then Vader's character becomes immensely more complex in ESB. Then Ben and Yoda's motives become very questionable , Luke is in obvious danger of falling to the darkside etc.


g

 

This post is either the funniest or scariest thing I have ever read on here...

 

I was about ten-ish when EpI came out, and I loved it. The PT is aimed at today's kids, not yesterday's kids, so I think it wasn't supposed to capture the OT "essence." Unless, that is, by essence you mean "enjoyable entertainment" in which case, yes it did, very much so. Oh, and bashing someone because they got two letters mixed up is kind of low dude.

 

I agree in part. I don't believe TPM could have done what SW did for several reasons. Primarily becuase although it's a "prequel" it is done as a sequel. The film assumes that we know a great deal about the GFFA going in, and so it doesn't cover the basics the way SW did. Additionally, the characters are established from the perspective that we know who they are. There's quite a bit of reverse foreshadowing. This would mean very little to an audience who had no idea what they were watching. I realize there are probably many younger fans who have seen TPM first, but I would assume they were probably given some background. IE what is the light sword? What is the Force? What's a mind trick? None of these things are explained in the PT, which is fine with me. Obviously, I'm quite familiar with them already, and I am very much a fan of the PT. But I do subscribe to the idea that the saga should be watched 4,5,6,1,2,3. Then 1 - 6. It's my belief that *none* of the movies that followed ANH could have generated the success that it did on thier own. There is a big "right place, right time" factor going for that movie, in addition to the factors that gezvader talked about; the many "firsts" that it provided back in 77.

That's a very good point, and something that I don't believe gets enough lip service on the boards. If you think about it, Luke is faced with a great deal of the same circumstances that his Dad was, and some of Luke's are even worse. Still he basically always does the right thing. Although he has his moments of weakness (the cave), he never gives in to the things Anakin did. This to me is another reason why the PT is effective, it strengthens the character of Luke tremendously. Now all of the vauge danger he was warned about has a specific reference, and he ultimately rejects all that his father embraced in order to save him.

Edits: Sp^elllengg

 

gezvader Obi-Wan only lied to Luke for his own good how do you think Luke would have reacted if Ben said right off the bat your father is Darth Vader, your sister is Princess Leia, and you two are the last hope in saving the galaxy. I admit Ben could have been more truthful but he thought he was doing the right thing by lying to him and I think he could have done a few things differently but still did a great job as being a mentor to Luke. It would have been really hard for Luke to take all that stuff in at once.

 

Since I have watched the saga 1-6, I must say that is doesn't... click. I think they work better as stand-alone trilogies, both telling two stories. They both capture their own essence, in a way.

 

gezvader Obi-Wan only lied to Luke for his own good how do you think Luke would have reacted if Ben said right off the bat your father is Darth Vader

Yeah we know that now, but look at it from Luke's POV at the time, imagine how he felt at the end of ESB, his whole world has come crashing down and his mentor has lied to him . All he's got at the end of ESB is Leia and even that is mixed with heartache since he knows she's now in love with Han.


g

 

^ unfortunately, i think i agree with you. they have different essences.

the OT brims with eagerness, freshness, and excitement, and the PT has excessive brooding.

 

Sorry, gezvader28 I thought you meant Luke felt that way at the end of the OT not at the end of ESB. Yes if you are talking about how Luke feels at the end of ESB then you are right gezvader28.

 

My essence problem is in the story itself:
In the OT we are lead to believe that the Old Republic was good and worth fighting for; that the Jedi were great, good and heroic.
In the PT we see them supposedly in their prime. And they aren't very compelling. Do we really care for the Republic? In the OT we hate the Empire and therefor think that we must love the Republic. When we see the Republic we understand why the Empire could come along--this doesn't work so well, because many of us end up prefering the Empire to the corrupt Republic with its rubber-stamping Senate which is just giving Palpatine anything he asks for. The Jedi are arrogant and dissorganized. All the greatness of the "good old days" implied in the OT, what makes us root for the good guys is betrayed on screen. The Republic is just a bunch of ninnies in the end. I don't really care about Qui-Gon or Mace Windu. Palpatine's craftiness makes him more sympathetic, not less. So the essence lost is the fundamental goodness of the good guys. The light side in the PT is wooden, the dark side has heart and emotion--this is definitely a shift and a betrayal of the values we (in my opinion) loved in the OT.