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Discussion Has The TLJ novel changed anyones opinion of the Film ?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by PadawanGussin, Mar 7, 2018.

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Has the TLJ novel changed anyones opinion of the Film ?

  1. Yes

    17.5%
  2. No

    77.2%
  3. Unsure

    8.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    One of the few universally praised components of the Prequels was Jango Fett's ridiculously cool sonic charges. They produced incredible damage. And were never used by anyone else in the galaxy ever again.

    Bringing in new or unprecedented designs or concepts that have never been present before... or are never revisited... is not an unfamiliar move in this franchise. The Empire would have benefited tremendously from utilizing droidekas. These things happen.
     
  2. hermiona52

    hermiona52 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2017
    It didn't really change my opinion since it's no secret I adore TLJ, but in some ways improved it (some things are impossible to show in a movie - like internal thoughts of characters) and expanded upon it. I won't see movie differently since the book doesn't change anything - all of it was already there if you watched closely (minus deleted scenes, but most of them are hardly a secret).
     
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  3. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    If I was in charge of the Empire or FO I would have asked whomever made the Magnaguard build me updated versions and had those guys fighting a lot more than the Stormtroopers who can't even shoot. Stormtroopers are regularly bested by civilians. The Magnaguard at least caused the prequel-era Jedi to at least break a sweat. I can only imagine what a few AI tweaks could do in comparison to the largely useless Troopers.

    Somewhat related... If I'm facing improved Magnaguard robots I'm having my scientists build me some serious EMP weapons to fry their circuits.

    And on and on it goes...
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  4. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Yup. I think the best additions were the caretaker feast. The descriptions that have been out on Reddit etc a while back as to what that scene was don't do a good job at all of selling what Luke's lesson there is all about. Which is a good one. Weirdly, Hux probably benefits the most. And maybe Snoke.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Mostly Handless likes this.
  5. ObiSpamBaloney

    ObiSpamBaloney Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2014
    The hyperspace ramming thing new details: 1) The ship itself had some kind of experimental shield if I recall; 2) the hyperspace route was already plotted in by Poe as per his original plan. At the point she did the jump, that previous point was past, but the trajectory was reversed, and the First Order ships were in the path of that.

    Maybe they didn't do this before because they simply could not afford the losses of ships. Against the death star, maybe it had strong enough defences in place to stop a hyperspace jump, etc? There's ways they could explain this away.
     
  6. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2003
    ^^^^^ This. I'm not gonna buy the book and give them more money on a product I find to be massively flawed.
     
  7. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Woefully whimsical Whill of New Films star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Yeah, I think the details on Snoke's view of Luke as a vessel of the Cosmic Force, and the hints we get on his plot to corrupt and confuse Luke's path, add quite a bit to understanding how the ST's story was set in motion. It was a carefully plotted attempt to corrupt the destiny of the entire Skywalker line, not just acquire a powerful apprentice.
     
  8. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Think how differently the whole series would've turned out if R2 still had those rocket boosters...
     
  9. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Yeah. And while I hesitate to bank on anything 100% after TLJ, I do think this aspect of the story will come into focus in episode 9 - much as we didn't get an explanation for what befell Anakin until ROTJ.
     
  10. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Woefully whimsical Whill of New Films star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I'd agree...whilst also being equally hesitant to predict anything at all about IX!
     
    Mostly Handless, TK327 and Satipo like this.
  11. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    My guess/ hope is that we get more on Kylo's fall, and thus more on Snoke's endgame and why Luke / the new Jedi were such a threat to it. And I think Kylo will pick up on Snoke's research and knowledge of the dark power in the Unknown Regions and try to harness them for himself. But obviously, none of that might come to pass.
     
    Mostly Handless and TK327 like this.
  12. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I personally think that there will be an anthology film for Luke Skywalker in time during his prime. More of a quest/artifact adventure (Think Indiana Jones) starring Sebastian Stan as Luke and that it will feature aspects of Snoke's rise and them crossing paths in their hunt for Force artifacts and knowledge. Perhaps with a cameo of a young Ben Solo at the very end.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    burg2774 likes this.
  13. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I would love a Stan / Luke film set after ROTJ - and if Snoke featured in that, fantastic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    burg2774 and Mungo Baobab like this.
  14. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Woefully whimsical Whill of New Films star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    That sounds pretty great. Actually, now I think about it, those details on Snoke's plot make much more sense of the story of Luke's other students going off with Ben. Likely, the seeds of corruption had spread right through Luke's temple.
     
    Satipo likes this.
  15. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    He's even got the beard now. Fix the hair. Let him study the character more and imagine him older and past ROTJ era.

    Make it happen, Lucasfilm! You'll never get an opportunity for a guy that looks and even has some vocal qualities that wouuld remind of Luke in his mid-30s or early 40s like this again who can actually act and who's been in other action packed blockbusters. Heck, he's already known within the Disney family via Marvel!

     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Satipo likes this.
  16. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    You can see from the description of the third flashback that Ben knew he was busted. He tried to kill Luke, not defend himself. That fits with him turning the others and murdering those who would not turn, and Luke's belief that Snoke had already turned Ben. It's not the behaviour of an innocent who later fell because of Luke's actions. Luke's failure has more to do with an instinctive reaction that ignored the possibility Ben could be saved. The second he decides not to kill Ben, he's remembering that fact - perhaps Ben can be saved. But of course, the tragedy is that by even giving into his instinct for a second, it's too late and Ben's fate is sealed - for the time being at least.

    Ender - couldn't agree more about Stan - get him in a Luke spin off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  17. hermiona52

    hermiona52 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2017
    I agree. After watching TLJ I wondered who might be a big bad in the next Episode but after reading novelization I really do imagine him in this role. He is just evil, there is not even single redeeming quality in him. I usually empathize with characters easily, even villains, but him? No way. When Snoke lived, he was like a rabid dog kept on a leash. But now that leash is gone and he will want to bite.

    What is weird to me is how much character it gave... BB-8. I said it before somewhere - HK-47 and Chopper would be proud. I really liked insight in his "mind" and will never underestimate any droid again. He is seriously a devious little ball.

    Also Poe. I was blinded by how much I liked Holdo from Leia: Princess of Aldeeran, so I wouldn't see any positives in Poe's actions before evacuation to Crait and nothing negative about her, when in fact she was always a bit awkward with people and usually couldn't understand what she intended by her words and actions (which novelization reminded me of). But I really do understand Poe now. He really cares deeply for his people. He saw how lost they were, no hope left and he wanted to do something about it, at least give that hope back. But on the other hand Holdo couldn't tell her plans to him or anyone who wasn't crucial, because entire Resistance fate depended on it. Really awful situation.
     
    Iron_lord and Satipo like this.
  18. Lost_Hope

    Lost_Hope Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Luke's version is not superior and not the ultimate truth. That's why RJ gave us Rashomon sequences, you need two POVs to get how both characters are processing what is happening and how they both created the tragedy. And their versions are different even if they both are not lying. Kylo thinks that Luke "has gone too far to turn back." He is clearly trying to defend himself because he's begging the Force to save him.

    [​IMG]

    Nowhere in the novelization or other sources was even a hint that Ben already corrupted other students. More likely Snoke was corrupting them as he was doing this with Ben.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    NileQT87 likes this.
  19. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I think that third flashback is as close to the truth as we'll get. And whether it's Ben working on the others, Snoke on his own, or a combination of the two, there's no way there wasn't something already going on before Luke went into the hut. Luke is wrong to believe Ben's fate is sealed when he lights his saber, but after that moment, Ben quickly commits to the future that Luke saw. Ben was not an innocent then. I think Luke was correct - Snoke had already turned his heart. That of course doesn't mean it couldn't be turned back again - a la Vader.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  20. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Pretty good read that establishes the process of the extended edition (He Read 7 different versions of RJ’s scripts and consulted him on his deleted scenes) and all of this happened in July of last year. The latest changes made relate to Leia which makes sense. It doesn’t sound like he based any of his choices around reactions online but rather just fleshing out what was there or Rian’s intentions. This makes sense of course. It takes a lot of time to write a novel so this idea that it was made after the reaction from some fans was pretty ridiculous to begin with.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...ew-luke-skywalker-han-solo-rian-a8245706.html

    This quote seems especially poignant for this thread:

     
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  21. Lost_Hope

    Lost_Hope Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Yeah, of course, Ben wasn't innocent. But he wasn't turned before this. Fear is always a turning point and here it's clear that he is very afraid that Luke decided to kill him. All of this doesn't make sense if Ben already turned to the dark side - that's why they don't state it like usually, they are using "turned his heart."

    In another version Luke is saying to Rey
    I killed Ben Solo in the spirit that night.
    Anyway, I don't think that this is really that important because it's typical self-fulfilling SW vision\stuff. Even from Kylo, because he believes that even great Jedi Luke Skywalker wanted to kill him before his fall.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  22. RiddleMeThis

    RiddleMeThis Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2017
    I loved the movie and had been looking forward to the novelization very much, to expand more on what I thought I knew.

    Now I feel like this is a story of a privileged kid who is going to be 'redeemed' despite being a sadistic psycho from the beginning.
     
  23. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Somewhat more powerful infantry units and somewhat destructive fighter ordinance do not equal in consideration to a maneuver that can sunder entire fleets in an instant. That's a ridiculous comparison.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  24. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I still haven't had the chance to read most of the novelization without rapidly skimming and skipping... But I have gotten through the beginning and it's perhaps changed my opinion about Hux. I thought in TFA he was someone who did things efficiently but liked to make a spectacle. In TLJ he is someone who likes to make a spectacle at the cost of efficiency or winning. This is rather bizarre to me. But all his orders for D'Qar are rather ridiculous. He didn't want the TIEs dispatched when they arrived, which delayed Canady. He also wanted them to reduce the D'Qar base to a crater (the spectacle), but didn't change course when it was clear everyone was off the base anyway. He should have had the first cannon shot hit the Raddus. Anyway, I just don't understand how the FO can accomplish anything. It's like he doesn't even understand what a battle plan is.
     
  25. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    I plan on reading it for myself but none of what you've posted here surprises me. Making a villain purposefully moronic in order to extend the plot is something that only ever really works in genres like comedy and kills any real tension in most other contexts. Besides, the destruction of the base on D'Qar has always been ridiculous to me since the first viewing when it dawned on me that he basically destroyed a base that must have been either almost or entirely empty.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    -LordSkywalker-, Gharlane and oncafar like this.