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Discussion Has The TLJ novel changed anyones opinion of the Film ?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by PadawanGussin, Mar 7, 2018.

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Has the TLJ novel changed anyones opinion of the Film ?

  1. Yes

    17.5%
  2. No

    77.2%
  3. Unsure

    8.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2017
    I hope Kylo in episode 9 dies not becomeva simple mirror for his grandfather, redeeming himself at the end due to Rey.believing in him.
     
  2. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011

    It really isn't. It would be ridiculously expensive to build what amount to torpedoes the size of capital ships.
     
  3. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Considering that it wouldn't take something the size of the Raddus to do immense levels of damage at lightspeed, that's a pretty empty counterargument.
     
    Shadao likes this.
  4. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Pablo said that the only reason the Raddus was able to enflict the damage it did was because of its size.
     
  5. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    [​IMG]
     
  6. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011

    Yes great counter argument.

    I mean hav you enjoyed any of these movies? Why doesn't everyone walk around with Destroyer Droid shields?

    You've just taken the most negative interpretation again. There is nothing to assume that anything smaller than the Raddus could enflict any damage, yet that's the assumption you've made.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  7. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Some people complain that Finn doesn't act like an elite trooper... He was trained by the FO and they suck at everything. So perhaps this can be used as the explanation.
     
    Mostly Handless and Akane like this.
  8. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Because they'd be ludicrously expensive. That's like asking why every infantry unit in real-world combat isn't equipped with the best armament. However, the shields are still vulnerable to a certain threshold of damage.

    The problem with hyperdrives is that they've existed in Star Wars' universe for millennia. Ships of numerous sizes, classes, models and designations have them. They even exist in lone fighters. Meaning, even if they were to use a ship the size of a fighter, it could still cause immense levels of damage to capital ships and flotillas as the projectile would bypass shielding entirely. It's a fleet-destroyer that doesn't necessarily cost much to create.

    EDIT: Also, another note should be made regarding the CIS' level of technological advancement in warfare. The CIS were an alliance of Separatists who were aligned with and secretly supported by the Trade Federation, the Techno Union, the Retail Caucus, the InterGalactic Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, and the Corporate Alliance. These were organizations who existed during what was possibly the Republic (and the galaxy at large)'s economic peak. Organizations which most likely had an enormous amount of capital to pool and influence to throw around in order to create incredibly advanced weaponry without the need for mass conscription.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  9. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2017
    I suspect that the impact of a smaller ship, even at superlight velocity , would be like a car crashing into a large building. Very high damage at the point of inpact but not enough force to cause catastrophic failue of the building overall.
     
  10. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Well, that depends on which part of the ship the projectile would hit. If it manages to hit something like the engines, weapons systems or life support facilities, that ship's (or fleet's) usefulness would immediately be eliminated. Especially within the context of warfare.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  11. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Wow it's almost like you're willing to imply things for the PT, but the ST won't be given any quarter.

    The point is that it was the fact the Raddus had so much mass that it was able to inflict so much damage. A smaller ship wouldn't do it.
     
  12. RiddleMeThis

    RiddleMeThis Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2017
    I hope he actually goes to prison and/or gets the Force taken from him. It's clear he doesn't want redemption or to stop doing terrible things. And even if he stops, it's not going to bring back all the innocent lives he took. Rey can start a new Jedi order if she wants but Kylo has no business being a part of that.
     
    PadawanGussin likes this.
  13. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2017
    In thinking about it, a single A Wing was ablevto take out a Super Star Destroyer at Endor by crashing into the bridge , so fair point.
     
  14. Oryx-I

    Oryx-I Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    I think even a small fighter crashing at lightspeed in the Death star laser gun would incapacitate it, making the battle of Yavin much more boring.

    The Raddus scene was cool in theory, but it needed to be given a better context. The deflector shield of the Supremacy should have been deactivated by Finn and Rose before it happened. And it would also have made their subplot more relevant.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    Shadao likes this.
  15. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    I don't think any film should need an expanded book or some additional lead in publications in order for that film to be liked more (or even understood better) for that matter.
     
  16. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I agree. Luckily there was pretty much nothing in the novel that couldn't already be gleaned from the film.
     
  17. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    As I haven't read it I couldn't say but as it apparently references the Living Force, Cosmic Force and Will of the Force (which is not in the movie) then it makes the film look even worse.

    Rey is even referenced in some way with them?

    These just aren't additional support but should have been in the movie itself.

    From what I've heard of it the writer realized how ludicrous a lot of the movie was and so had to make up reasons that aren't in the movie as to why anyone is doing anything rather than expanding understanding of what is already in the movie.
     
    Shadao, -LordSkywalker- and mlsw like this.
  18. Doom_Buggy

    Doom_Buggy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Is there a source you can cite that says the author said he "realized how ludicrous a lot of the movie was" or is that just an opinion or assumption?

    Sometimes it's hard to differentiate between peoples' opinions and facts here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  19. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    It's an assumption.
     
  20. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Sorry but I don't see why that would be considered factual as in the writer said this.

    If it was then I'd support that with a quote.
     
  21. Generational Fan

    Generational Fan Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2015
    What makes me wonder a bit about this "expanded version" is how much of it was written after the cinematic release of TLJ. Obviously the majority (probably even all) of it was written prior to the middle of December last year, but one section in particular intrigued me. After the events of the "villager raids" (the deleted scene that we are apparently getting in the DVD/Blue Ray or whatever else release) and just before Luke catches Rey and Kylo in the hut "bonding?", Luke rediscovers himself and The Force and gains the sudden clarity that the galaxy and his sister really need him. And he becomes willing to reconnect; that is until he sees Rey and Kylo. Now this didnt happen in the film. There was never any willingness to return. Maybe this is another deleted scene ? Maybe not ? But how this relates to my initial question is that was this part written after the cinematic release of TLJ in response to the distraught section of the Star Wars fan base that were gutted because Luke apparently did not seem to be the same person he once was? Was this a token gesture by the author to satisfy those fans in saying "see, still the same Luke - he is willing to come back and fight", but yet not written to contradict the version presented by RJ? Maybe it was always written like this. Maybe this will be a deleted scene. Because for me, this is a very important concept in the debate of who Luke was then and now. Because in the novel, once he puts his guilt and grief into perspective and buries his demons of the past, for a short time, the ROTJ Luke is back; until he sees Kylo and Rey together - which then destroys all of what he is mentally overcome. Maybe it was always written like this and just not seen in the film.
    Another part that was really interesting to me is that seemingly, all 3 (Luke, Leia and Han) had a hand in creating Kylo Ren. From Leia's thoughts that you read in Bloodline, you can tell she has always had trouble accepting she was the biological daughter of Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader. Apart from Luke and Han, no one else knew; particularly not her son. And because of the repulsion she feels at being his daughter, any little "bad use" of the Force (Force paddies/tantrums, etc) that very young Ben would do would magnify alarm bells in Leia's head. Leia will be eternally worried about his vulnerability to turn to the dark side because of both her biological father's path, as well as probably not really understanding what the Force is about and how situations (a person turning dark) like this occur. She then discusses these concerns with Han in private, not realizing that young Ben can can actually hear all of this in his parents thinking he was a monster. What does this do to a child when your parents think this about you. At the very minimum, I would think it would make you mentally unstable and very vulnerable to outside (ie. Snoke) influences.
    And then you, the monster, gets sent to your legendary Jedi Master uncle for structure and discipline; far away from the two people who should unconditionally love you the most. Then your Uncle has a brief error in judgement (but does not act on it - for the doubters, THIS IS ACTUALLY CANON IN THE NOVEL THROUGH THE 3RD RECALL OF EVENTS. Not my words, but Canon) and you mistakenly think he is going to kill you ;because you are still just waking up and dont have your full faculties in processing whats going on.

    After all of this, you become Kylo Ren - the cursed grandchild of the Chosen One; because of the impact he had on your mother and uncle.

    One thing this novel does for me is reinforce how layered this broader story we are getting in the ST - and its a good one. And another, through the apparently irrelevant opening of this novel, is that there is potential for "Legends" (the old EU) to be Canon. Luke dreamed this one, maybe he "dreamed" all of the "Legends" material too. I can buy that and be happy with that.
     
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  22. Doom_Buggy

    Doom_Buggy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Well the way you phrased it implied it was something you'd "heard" attributed to the author, as in something he had said/thought. It was phrased as a fact (like a rumor).

    You didn't phrase it as someone else's opinion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  23. Lost_Hope

    Lost_Hope Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    It was hinted in the movie, the way scenes were edited. He sensed Leia and immediately started running to Rey and calling her. Some people guessed his intention in the movie, the novelization just confirmed it.
     
  24. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I think the thawing was clear in the film. Had Kylo not shown up at that point, Luke would have returned, or at least helped more actively - while it's implied, I don't think him committing to a return was 100% clear - nor do I think it needed to be.
     
  25. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2017
    Another part of the layering I enjoyed was just how desperate the Resistance was at this time in the SW universe. From havung to gaurd against defectors and dealung with loss in a crisis to fuel shortages, it shows the true horror of a ling fought war.
    In ANH we jumped from a brutal dogfight to congratulations and back slaping to a heros medal ceremony.
    TLJ does not pull its punches about xonfluct and liss,. From Lukes self imposed isolation to rhe loss of a sister in combat , the cost of war is put front and center.

    To me, this is what makes a hero worth believing in, how they work thru thier pain and then do what they must.
     
    Generational Fan likes this.