Has your opinion of Jacen changed?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JediJSolo, Nov 7, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    I think I have noticed a slow trend forming. I have noticed that some of the people who were strongly against Jacen at the beginning of the NJO have now begun to accept him and his opinions.

    Has your opinion of Jacen changed since the beginning of the NJO and, if so, which book started to change your mind?
  2. Mira_McGrath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    star 1
    jacen has always been cool with me. when he was not using the force and stuff (i think mostly balance piont) i was ready to kill him. he was being a jerk and trying to force his opions on others. now he's cool again. hes more like how he used to be. i think that happened in the very end of BP, or the beginning of conquest. as long as they don't try and make him more like anakin to replace the younger beloved solo, jacen will still be cool.
    ~Mira
  3. Disco_Dark_Jeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    For me he is getting better.....he really didn't change that much in SBS, so the jury is still out. Let's wait and see how he handles things in DJ, then ask again.
  4. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    didn't mind him too much until Jedi Eclipse, which led to dislike, and BP, which led to annoyance and an urge to cave his face in :)
  5. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    Such strong feelings, RF. :)

    I understand why you might have not liked him after Jedi Eclipse, but what annoyed you so much about him in SbS?
  6. Jedi_Jade-Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 1
    I still can't stand him. When he starts his little peace and caution whining, I just want to kill him. I wouldn't mind if he died. I'm furious that Jimmy died.
  7. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    SbS? Didnt mean that, meant Balance Point :)
  8. Gorbash Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    I've always been a Jacen fan but have grown to like him even more over the course of the NJO books. I liked him in the YJK books as well, but he's definitely changed a lot since then. He's made mistakes, yes, but so has everyone else in the series. And, being fairly new to these forums, I was surprised to discover the extreme love/hate relationship everyone seems to have with him. It seems people either like him a lot or can't stand him.

    Many people seem to dislike him because of his hesitance to use the Force and his reluctance to kill. I find his stance refreshing, actually, because I see similarities between the war going on in the GFFA and the 'war' going on against terrorism. The Yuuzhan Vong are the Taliban, indiscriminantly killing people to further their own causes. The New Repuclic is the rest of the 'free world' who are trying to oppose the invaders while at the same time trying not to get innocent people killed. Jacen represents the small minority of people like me who don't necessarily think killing is the answer to all our problems.

    I realize that probably wasn't the best analogy I could've used, but that's mostly how I feel. And I will always prefer a character who values life and stands up for his ideals, even if they're unpopular, over one who kills with abandon and allows others to think for him.
  9. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    If he doesn't want to kill, thats fine by me. But it's how he then tells everyone else they are wrong. Like it said in SbS, he nearly didnt go. He was putting an entire mission in doubt. Why didnt he complain earlier?
  10. Janz_Walker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2000
    star 4
    Seems to me it was one of his last phases of being a teenager. You know, the one where you're all of the sudden superior to everyone else and know everything? :D
  11. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I've always liked Jacen, but I thought his character was, well, I don't know, different somehow in the YJK series. But I like the more contemplative Jacen of the NJO. (even though I don't agree with not using the force)
  12. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    TITLE SPOILERS I SUPPOSE











    That's another gripe I have. So far (some Jacen FCer will correct me if wrong, I know you're watching :) ) every HC has been Jacen-related, yeah? I dont like one person getting all that attention. You have to wonder if the reason there are so many dislikers is because he's rammed so hard into our faces













    END
  13. Balance_Point Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2001
    star 4
    "That's another gripe I have. So far (some Jacen FCer will correct me if wrong, I know you're watching :) ) every HC has been Jacen-related, yeah?"

    Watch out; here comes one of those Jacen FCers now. :)

    That's not exactly true. In VP, Jacen was one of many characters who played an important part, and his role in that book was certainly far from the largest. BP was mainly about him, true, but it's pretty much the only one out of the three HCs that is. He played a large role in SbS, but again, it wasn't the largest role there; I'm pretty sure Anakin had that honor. And Luke and the others did a lot of that book too.

    Then you have to look at all of the non-HCs. Jacen has never been the major character in any of them, unlike his younger brother. And Anakin's duology focused on him far more than BP did on Jacen. So I don't think it's quite fair to claim that Jacen has been "rammed into our faces." Just wanted to point that out.

    Well, since this thread is aimed at people whose opinions of Jacen have changed, and I'm not one of them as I've liked him from the beginning, I'm just going to retreat now... :)

  14. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    All perspectives are welcome Balance_Point. Thank you for sharing yours.

    ?But it's how he then tells everyone else they are wrong. Like it said in SbS, he nearly didnt go.?

    I understand your perspective, RF, but I have to say that there is more evidence to support the idea that Jacen is becoming much more tolerant of other people following their own path rather than the one that he believes is the right one. This is particularly apparent in BP, when Jacen tells Luke about his vision, then insist that Luke should not change his actions based upon it. He insists that he was the one who got the vision and therefor he is the only person that the vision was intended to influence. This shows that he wants Luke to fallow his own path, but still desires Luke?s help to find his own.

    SbS spoilers


















    Also, Jacen nearly didn?t go on that mission because Anakin wasn?t sure that he could trust Jacen to do what needed to be done. Jacen wanted to go on the mission. He just wanted to be sure that no one would be going to the Dark Side. Remember that Jacen was relived when Anakin decided not to kick him off the team.













    [/spoiler]
  15. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    Wow. Was wondering when someone was going to throw this topic up. It seems extremely relevant, especially after Star by Star, because I felt he was the one who got the most character development throughout the book. So what this is going to be is an analysis of how Aaron's opinion of Jacen has evolved throughout his EU history.

    Jacen Solo: The Early Years. Young Jedi Knights.

    Okay, so I haven't read any EU besides the YJK series that has Jacen, or any of the Solo kids for that matter, in it. So sue me. Anyway, back on topic. I loved Jacen in this series. Absolutely loved his character. He was a younger version of Han! Ever the wise-cracking scoundrel trying to win over the beautiful female who tries to show indifference to his charms, meaning Tenel Ka. The guy was just flat out cool. He had enormous Force potential, showed an affinity with animals, which is cool in and of itself, and best of all, he was unhampered by any philosophical problems about the Force. All he wanted was to become a Jedi Knight. That's it. No agonizing over what it truly means to be a Jedi. No stopping his brother from firing Centerpoint, which is at the heart of my NJO troubles with Jacen. None of that. He just wanted to be part of the Jedi legacy, and as a result of that, he was much more carefree and fun-loving, and consequently, much more fun to read about. He didn't make my head hurt at that point.

    The NJO and Vector Prime: The beginning of Jacen's downfall in the humble opinion of JediMasterAaron

    Actually that's a bit of a dramatic title, but what the heck, I'm feeling a bit dramatic tonight. Vector Prime didn't really do anything to drag Jacen down. I didn't agree with him during his philosophical debate with Anakin, but then again, if I agreed with everyone how boring would that make life? Jacen acted heroically and selflessly to save Danni Quee, and even beat his brother in a lightsaber fight. So um...I guess it's not much of a beginning of the downfall after all. After VP my opinion of Jacen actually ran higher than my opinion of ANakin, because Anakin seemed so enamored of Kyp in VP, and Kyp is, or was, the ultimate anti-jedi in my mind.

    The Dark Tide Duology: Is Jacen cool or WHAT?!

    Ok, as you can tell from the title, I dug Jacen in this duology. I really did. Several things disappointed me extremely about his character though, throughout the series.

    In Onslaught, Jacen's arrogance (ducks from the expected blow from -Vergere-) begins to show itself. It's not outright, in your face arrogance. Not at all. It's very subtle. First, he fights against going on a mission to Belkadan with his Uncle, who personally requested his presence on the mission. Now, I'm not saying that Jacen can't be an independent thinker, for I think that is an essential quality in a good Jedi Knight. But his superiority about the way the Force should be wielded was starting to show through. He started digging his heels in at the first sign that he might be doing something that would disrupt his philosophical musings, completely ignoring the fact that an entire galaxy was under siege and needed his help. Then, again on Belkadan, he specifically ignores Luke's command, and goes and tries to free the slaves, getting severely whupped on by a YV in the process and nearly getting himself enslaved and encased in coral. Way to go bud. Still, he redeems himself later, by realizing his error, and kicking some serious YV butt on Dantooine. Very very cool stuff here, and shows just how powerful Jacen can be when he puts his mind to the right cause.

    Then comes Ruin. For the most part, I loved Jacen in this book as well. He was part of a vital mission, and performed his role admirably. He was a great fighter and a good Jedi on the mission, without letting his philosophical troubles get in the way of what he needed to do. I didn't appreciate how he argued with Corran at the end of the book at ALL. Again, Jacen showing that he feels he knows better than everyone else how to use the Force, especia
  16. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    ?(ducks from the expected blow from -Vergere-)?

    Don?t worry about that too much, JMA. I specifically asked all the people in the Jacen Solo FC to refrain from any type of roasting. I think I can almost feel -Vergere- hovering overhead, just waiting for me to give him permission to swoop down and pick apart everything you said about Centerpoint. [face_devil] :) But I believe that you are entitled to your opinion, and that opinion should be respected, because it does have logical evidence to back it up.

    Because of the fact that the Centerpoint issue is so volatile, I will stay away from it. However, I would like to point out that during the Dark Tide Duology, the only missions that Jacen openly opposed were the ones that did not turn out as well as had been originally planed. I found this rather reminiscent of Yoda?s dislike for the idea of training Anakin. Sort of like he foresaw that the mission he was being put on would not turn out very well. So I interpreted Jacen's opposition to those missions as an expression of concern, rather than an expression of arrogance.
  17. Doogie76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2001
    star 1
    I like Jacen, but he frustrates me. He is like that deeply philosophical college kid who comes from affluent neighborhood and is the first on a protest line telling others how they should treat others (Ahheemmm, all those jackasses I saw in Times Square with "Our grief is not settled in war" posters). But in fact his parents are different thinkers who are blue collared and believe in importance of family over society...ok that is too much of a rant there.
    Jacen has emerged as a great, well "Balance Point" in all the books. He is the mediator between what should be done and what can be done. Prevents or at least tries to prevent disasters from happening by being philosophical. His encounter with Vergere will probably help bring him backl into a more " warrior jedi" like nature as opposed to the "philosoph Jedi". Only DJ will answer that question. He will probably emerge as a strong influence on a new Jedi council when it is reformed, considering that he survives the Vong...
  18. Keyan_Stele Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 2
    Jacen is obviously in literary stasis. I consider this to be the case because he states the same exact things every 15 pages or so of every book in this series. His views are hardly revolutionary. I've grown tired of waiting for the authors to advance him and resolve his dilemma either by opening him to his obvious blind spot or ultimately pacifying him to the point where he never touches a saber again.
    Jacen's views have just been dormant for a good long while in the SW universe. Now (the NJO) is a properly dramatic time to use his views as a counter balance, but unfortunately, the whole thing is being handled poorly and is also being beat to death in every book in the series. This series had so much potential before publishing, but with the loss of common sense, lack of following the rules of the SW universe (which are about to be violated more than ever before by the way), and poor presentation it has lost any chance at recovery even if Homer, Virgil, Dante, and others were to collaborate upon its resolution.
    We'll probably hear views similar to Jacen's from some complacent Jedi in the coming prequels before they meet their inevitable demise (not spoilers since I know none, just speculation.)
    Back to Jacen, it's almost like each author didn't pay close enough attention to the previous books in the series and decides he needs to play up Jacen's pacifistic views for the reader so that they know them or remember them. You only need repetition of something 6 times to remember it if you're an average person so this method of beating the readers to death with Jacen's views has long since passed the point of being annoying for me.
    The handling of progression through events and transitions in states, events, and characters is all slowed down to microscopic analysis in this series in order to milk the consumer for their money that the books do not entertain through 95% of their content. I think that the NJO story could probably be handled much better in an arc of under half the size of the final existing arc. However, I'm sure some marketer or economist somewhere determined the number of books to meet demand to maximize profit. Too bad they didn't count on diminishing appeal to the extent that I've lost my interest; just to name one fan. I stopped buying the books after Vector Prime and now I just read them during my breaks during my shifts at my part time bookstore job.
    I think the NJO series is in inept hands, and has been from the start despite the "qualifications" of the different authors. The main ineptitude is at the level of quality control and continuity control (above the authors). The authors hands are slightly tied by only being allowed to do so much in each book and therefore the pace of the books grinds to a halt, even if the author throws in a ton of action around his few specific events.
    If I were an author involved in a SW series, I wouldn't want to write it unless the series was completely mine to write. But of course, no single author will get 20+ SW books for a series (nor should an author get that many). The other problem with the distinct series for one author is the highly inconsistent variety between series that was beginning to pump out of the Bantam line in the middle to late years of its run. It's down to a no win scenario.
    I can tell people here also that from another standpoint, SW literature is struggling on the market. NYT lists aside (the lists are somewhat rigged if you don't know, but that's another topic) sales HAVE diminished. At the bookstore I work at, each successive SW title has decreased in sales. We keep independent records on bestsellers based on actual sales (unlike the NYT) and SW has never crossed the #10 spot ever since Episode I was released. Usually it hovers around 12-15 in the first week and then drops back down to nothing by the thrid week. I'm not at liberty to discuss the actual numbers and figures of course, but the consistent low rankings on the sales list is enough evidence for me that the franchise has started to struggle in the literature market. Now there are so
  19. Asyr Handor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1999
    star 4
    No, I still think he's awesome. ;)
  20. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    As promised, I'll stay out of this ;)

    I feel I've read Jacen too closely to be objective here...
  21. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    Very interesting & insightful opinions, everyone. The Jacen Solo FC is compiling a comprehensive "bio" starting with Jacen's birth and hopefully, we can help to dispel some common myths on Jacen Solo. If not dispel them, then maybe help to understand his character a little better.

    I will however say something in response to Keyan_Stele. It appears that you feel Jacen Solo's character has ceased to evolve. I believe you are far the truth here. In each book, Jacen distinctly matures and develops into a character that not only builds on his characterization in the previous book, but also adds to this [characterization] logically. Hopefully, the "bio" will help you see this, which we will post before February of 2002.

    Also, it appears you have many general qualms with the NJO - one being its inconsistency. I would agree with you here to a certain extent.

    Still, in a broad story arc such as this, it is premature to judge it only halfway through the series. DR & LFL could very well tie up all the loose ends before the series ends. As a fan of fantasy series, I personally have craved for an EU saga which spans over years and consisting of 18-20 books. Star Wars is an epic saga at its heart and a series such as this really brings this particular element out in the best of ways. Hence, I can overlook the minor inconsistencies for an entertaining and engaging saga which spans over multiple years.

    Just my 2 creds.
  22. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    To be honest Ive hated Jacen recently, but after reading many positive posts about him and his character development, I'm starting to come around. Hey, why not ? I like Jaina a whole lot more than I did before I read SbS.
  23. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    Keyan_Stele, I respect your opinion, and to a certain extant, I can understand it. However, the majority of your post is obscenely off topic. I can understand how that might happen. You have a very strong opinion of the NJO, and you wished to express that opinion. I am sure that your original intent was not to get off topic, but you did. The topic is ?Has your opinion of Jacen changed since the beginning of the NJO and, if so, which book started to change your mind?? That topic has nothing to do with the book sales of the bookstore that you work in.

    I am a very big fan of the NJO, and I do not appreciate you getting off topic to bash it. If you wish to criticize the NJO, do it at The NJO Critics Club, and keep those criticisms out of threads that do not ask for them. I am sorry if this offends you, but this is a fairly sensitive subject for me.
  24. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    I just realized that the only post that truly deserved to be described as ?obscenely off topic? would be my own. Keyan_Stele did make some good points, I just believe that he should not have made some of them here. So I apologize for my strong and off topic words.

    Okay, back on topic. I think it is fairly common knowledge that I have always been a supporter of Jacen. However, it hasn?t always been for the same reasons. Before the NJO, I admired Jacen?s fun loving personality, and his skill with animals. But when the NJO came about, Jacen started to question what it meant to be this thing (this Jedi) that he had always wanted to be. I admired that about him as well.

    There have been times when my opinion of Jacen in some books, wasn?t as high as it was in others, but in general, I have always supported him.
  25. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I'm still trying to figure out what exactly caused Jacen to change so dramatically from the Young Jedi Knight series to the present day form.

    Jacen himself states that Anakin should have fired Centerpoint station, it's fairly obvious that he thought Anakin couldn't fire it properly.

    It's like Xander summoning the demon on the musical on Buffy because he thought it would be cool to have singing and dancing in Sunnydale....

    It was a big mistake but Jacen is even more forgivable because what if Anakin HAD missed and hit Fondor!?! We'd be saying JACEN YOU STUPID FOOL! YOU SHOULD HAVE STOPPED HIM!

    Lighten up punks.

    I'm a pacifist and I can agree with Jacen's actions for the most part. He's not perfect and I think he's going to passed along "Jimmy's legacy" just like Obi Wan was passed on Qui Gons.

    It'll be up to him to solve the riddle of the Vong, Stop his sisters evil, and destroy the Dark Side master Tsavong Lah
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.