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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

JCC Hating Humans One at a Time: The Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Eeth-my-Koth, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...s-by-man-she-met-on-dating-site-a3597326.html

    So...I heard about this incident just a few hours ago. You know, I get that people have certain preferences when it comes to relationships and that's unavoidable and just a part of life but this...this is vile. I honestly cannot fathom the idea of harboring so much hatred for someone over an occurrence (which isn't really anything major) that you brutally murder that person over it.
     
  2. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    That's...a strange way to comment on this story.

    You say "unavoidable" as if sexual preference is somehow a bad thing that cannot be avoided. You show further indifference to the idea as "just a part of life"; again, some bad, unavoidable thing that you shrug at.

    You refer to this as "an occurrence", as if it were a traffic accident. You describe this sexual "occurrence" as not "really anything major". I think hiding something from someone to get them into bed is pretty serious. It's a sort of bed trick. Some would call that rape, or at least extremely dubious consent. I know I would feel tricked and violated. You don't wait until afterward to confess, you confess first so that the person, you know, consents to what they're getting into.

    It's still a brutal murder and he's going to prison a very long time for it, as he should.
     
  3. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    CT, transgender people do not owe their life stories to every person they have sex with. There are plenty of valid reasons why a trans person would want to cut ties with their old identity entirely, and never tell their new acquaintances. What the trans woman in the above article did was very dangerous, for obvious reasons, but it was not "rape." The murderer is not the victim here.
     
  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Looks like the murderer is one of those ***holes who thinks a transgender woman is "still a man." Or at best, he thought he was living through that Funky Cold Medina song from the 80s.

    Could she have told him ahead of time, sure, and I can see the position of "I'm sleeping with you and you have avoided telling me about an important part of who you are" while acknowledging that she did not owe him that information. But if he had handled his rage by saying "You should have told me first and we're done here," we would not be having this discussion because it would not be in the news.
     
  5. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

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    Jan 5, 2011
    I never said they owe their entire life stories. I didn't say transgender people owe it to their partners to tell them what they had for lunch in 1992.

    This is info that many people would consider of absolute necessity before consenting to sex. Imo, that should not be ignored. If it will seriously impact the decision to consent to sex, it should be divulged. If it can/will result in rejection, it should not be omitted. (there's an argument to be made about reasonable expectation, but we can get into that later)

    You don't get to decide, since you are asking another person to engage in a serious action we've all agreed requires the highest standards of willful, informed consent.

    I'm sure there are, I don't doubt it.

    But, again, I have to point this out, we're not talking about an "acquaintance". I never said trans people have to tell their "acquaintances".

    I think it's up for debate. Considering the seriousness of the act, one should err on the side of caution.

    Maybe it's not "rape", but if maybe it is, one should play it safe.

    I never said he was. That's not really my focus. He murdered her. He's going to prison for a very long time, as he should.

    What I did was disagree with the style of a comment on the story in question.
     
  6. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Practically anything could affect someone's decision to sleep with another person. Should people be required to tell sex partners that their hair is dyed, their boobs are silicone, or that they're not as rich as they seem? More pointedly , do people have to disclose that they had a black grandparent, a Jewish upbringing, or an immigrant history? Does failure to relate any of these things make a person a rapist?
     
  7. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    I was not referrring to the murder itself as an occurrence. I was referring to the victim not telling the perpetrator about this ahead of time and saying how it certainly not enough of a big deal to resort to this.

    This is essentially what I was saying. It is understandable that someone being transgender can be a deal-breaker when it comes to a relationship for some people but this is entirely inexcusable.

    When did I say it was a bad thing and how is it not unavoidable?
     
    Juliet316 likes this.
  8. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Yeah I know, and I criticized you for referring to her omission as an "occurrence".

    Again, I said there's an argument about reasonable expectation.



    Again, let's not divert. I'm not saying she had to divulge the peanut butter sandwich she had for lunch. I'm talking specifically about her being a transgender woman. Let's be real here, this is something just about everyone should know to be of importance, to be a factor, or at least having a strong possibility of being a factor. There are many people who would consider this important to consent, we all know this. I'd imagine transgender people would know this better than anyone else.

    But, ultimately, no one gets to decide what is important to the other person when it comes to consent. Yes, even seething racists have the right to consent. If a person with a black grandparent knows or suspects their potential partner would not consent to having sex with a person with a black grandparent, if you know or suspect it would be a factor, you are obligated to divulge the info, imo. You don't get to ignore and violate a person's preferences, regardless of the reasoning for their consent. Just because the person is a crappy, prejudiced, hateful human being, doesn't mean you get to violate them in this manner. You certainly shouldn't do it knowingly, or with suspicion of the possibility.

    It's pretty clear this woman was conscious of it being a possible factor, which is why she confessed afterward. It would be different if she genuinely thought it was simply not a factor at all. Ignorant, perhaps to the point of unlikelihood, but understandable. It would be waaaaay different if he had given her reason to believe it wouldn't be a factor at all, like saying "I'd have no problem having a sex with a transgender person" (or something else of that nature that would lead a person to strongly believe that it would not be an issue). That puts the issue to rest, imo. Go for it with no worries, imo.

    I'm not really focused on calling anyone rapists, I'm just giving my view of the situation. Talos painted it as trivial, I disagree.

    Tracy, yorick, this may be something that needs to be discussed in another thread, if the discussion is to continue.
     
    SateleNovelist11 likes this.
  9. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
     
  10. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

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    Feb 27, 2013
    First of all, the Evening Standard is a source only slightly above The Daily Heil.

    Secondly, in the space of 23 minutes, they had sex, she revealed she was Trans, he performed a particularly gruesome act, with a ten inch knife he apparently had on him.

    Thirdly, they'd been talking for two months online.

    But you're all okay with taking his word he found out after they had sex? And happened to have a ten inch knife with him. And stabbed her an insane number of times.

    Okay.
     
    harpua likes this.
  11. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    No one stabs someone 119 times because of one thing. That guy had some serious repressed rage going on. I mean, try punching a pillow as many times as you can. By the time you get to fifty, you will be feeling it. And this is guy is driving a knife with enough force to actually penetrate a person's body. I can't imagine the degree to which you have to just be full-on flying to be able to stab someone 119 times. Just make the motion of stabbing someone 119 times. That's ******* crazy.
     
  12. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
  13. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Airbnb takes a courageous stance against people murdering their Airbnb guests.

     
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    It's a man's "national duty" to rape girls who wear ripped jeans, says Egyptian lawyer

    https://www.buzz.ie/news/egyptian-l...uty-rape-girls-wear-revealing-clothing-260257
     
  15. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
  16. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jun 25, 2002
    On another messageboard I post on, a 14-year-old trans girl is getting kicked out of the house in 48 hours because she's trans. Her parents are also taking her computer and phone, so she can't call anyone for help. It's apparently very important that their junior-high-aged child be living on the street. In November.

    The fact that all this is spectacularly illegal doesn't seem to impress anybody.

    God, I love religious zealots.
     
  17. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

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    Nov 1, 2012
  18. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    This judge

     
  19. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
    Whoever the D.A was needs to a share in the hate too for deciding to try her as an adult.

    Also link @Ghost?
     
  20. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
  21. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
    WTF!!!!!!????????
     
    Rogue1-and-a-half and Ghost like this.
  22. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

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    May 31, 2004
  23. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
  24. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    Sith_Sensei__Prime and Juliet316 like this.
  25. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 27, 2005
    Yeah, I was going to post that in a bit. For once justice is served!