Lit Apropos of Nothing - ACKBAR IN CAPITALS - The Lit Forum Social Thread, v2.0.15

The best thing about GoT spoilers is that I can read them and understand so little that I'm still not really spoiled.

 

It was his sled!

Speaking of that movie (no spoiler warnings, it's 80 years old) when I finally watched it the twist for me was not that it was his sled, it was that he had it the whole time. I thought that he lost it and was sad about that. Then again he could have simply displaced it in his giant pile of stuff and was sad that couldn't go to sled.

Speaking of sledding: why are the sleds sold in the stores so small? I haven't fit in one for years.

 

Because manufacturers think that adults don't sled.

Though, the multi-kid sleds are usually big enough for an adult. Sometimes.

 

I like the Game of Thrones armors. Heck, sometimes I go find crowd scenes with lots of soldiers and pause so I can appreciate them a bit better.

Tyrell stuff especially. Both of Loras' suits of armor have really cool vine motifs (first one goes a bit overboard with it, but it is tourney armor and supposed to be flashy), and even the more basic soldier designs have subtle flower motifs.
I also love the Iron Islander armor and its ocean camo look.

If I had a complaint, it is that they tend to be a bit too uniform for feudal armies, but I understand that they want the sides to be easily identifiable in battle scenes. Still, the main characters should have unique armor at least.

 

I hate everything about you.


The show may have decent clothes, but really, it can't brag about visuals. At all. The whole point of a visual adaptation is to bring the spectacle to life -- the fantastic sights, the action, the grandeur. But the show has no flair. The budget can't sustain spectacle. They have to keep the showy stuff offscreen as much as possible, the action is mediocre if it's shown at all, it can't go big, the visual design is dreary, and it's just not conveying scale or grandeur or visual excitement well. I mean, the Red Wedding is like five random guys stabbing a handful of people in the most boringly shot manner possible inside a brown barn. It's just not doing its job as an adaptation at all, aside from the acting aspect.

 

Having watched Citizen Kane recently myself, I did a double take at that as well. I knew the twist ahead of time (thanks, Family Guy), but assumed the sled had been long lost, the message being that we often ignore what makes us happy until it's too late to do anything about it. However, being Citizen Kane, there could be an uber deep message in there about how we so often ignore what's right in front of us in order to pursue what society tells us we should want: money, power, prestige, when all of that means precisely nothing when you're at deaths door. As Traknar also mentioned, there might also be some commentary society's, particularly a 1940's society, view on aging. Though the sled was the only thing that made him truly happy, he could never take advantage of it even if he was fully aware he still had it: it would not be proper, after all, for an aging billionaire business tycoon to ride a children's sled. Instead, he's expected to take pleasure in "sophisticated" things that have long since lost any meaning to him. It's all pointless, because all he has at the end is regrets. Nihilistic movie, that Citizen Kane.

 

GrandAdmiralJello:

They could have made it a cartoon though. I would have liked that at least. But I suppose most people don't take cartoons seriously, so a fantasy cartoon would be a double whammy....

Course, there is plenty of artwork and a few videogames out there that take an even more realistic and plain approach, despite not having the same kind of budget concerns. Indeed, I have seen more complaints that the show designs being too fanciful than not fanciful enough.

 

My recommendations would be to start with these 2 case files:

Volume 2: Has the Dredd epics The Cursed Earth and Judge Caligula. Cursed Earth is notable for showing a softer, slightly more idealistic Dredd - if you read it, I think you'll see what I mean.

Volume 5: This has the one to end them all: Block Mania / The Apocalypse War - truly epic in every sense of the bok.

Both volumes will be in the region of at least 300 pages, black and white art.

Either in Volumes 3 or 4, there is, I think the first Judge Death story, though that later featured in Judge Anderson too.

Oh and talking of 2000AD: Grab Nikolai Dante Volume 1, Volumes 2 and 3 are out in the US later this year and volume 3 is infamous for the UK edition being out of print. It's one of the most ambitious comics you'll ever read.




(I think there are now US as well as UK editions but they should be identical)

 

The old Rush fan in me is raging at the misspelling of Xanadu

But I do agree that Citizen Kane's genius doesn't lie in its message or even its writing, but its cinematography (though I would argue that, for 1941, the message at the heart of the movie isn't quite so cliche as to be the stuff of children's films, though it would have been well trodden ground for anyone who reads). Still, it's worth noting that the end idea might not be so cut-and-dry; after all, every thing we know about Kane, aside from his dying words, come from unreliable narrators. It's likely that at its core it is simply as it appears, a remembrance for lost innocence and so on. Knowing Welles himself, though, and considering the rest of the movie, I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least a tinge of the societal criticism I mentioned in there, as well. And if there wasn't, I'm sure he would have told you there was.

Todd, I agree in a sense. Like you, I wasn't exactly enthralled with the movie (though I was interested), and I tend to avoid terms like "best film of all time" anyway. I do, however, think it deserves a good deal of its acclaim for its innovative cinematography alone. That said, I would never, ever want to be in one of those classes that watches the film, pausing it any time someone wishes so that they may discuss a particular frame or scene. That would be pure torture.

 

Pfft Citizen Kane.. This is a real classic.

 

GrandAdmiralJello

I wasn't aware that anyone talked about Pacific Rim as it was anything more than it is: a really fun popcorn movie. Of course, one could argue that it's the culmination of its genre, if its genre is Giant Robots Smash **** ; not difficult, considering its only recent competition I can think of is Transformers.

As for modern "great films", I suppose that really depends on your definition. Martin Scorsese and Quentin Tarantino are still making great films, in my opinion; I know I'd include The Departed on a list of 2000's masterpieces in an instant. I have a similar affection for Django Unchained; it's not Pulp Fiction, but it works incredibly well as a film. While Pacific Rim is just fun, I do consider Pan's Labyrinth something very close to a masterpiece. The Conen brothers have done some truly stellar work, and I keep hearing great things about 12 Years a Slave, though I haven't seen it yet.

And really, that's just touching extremely popular movies. The great thing about this era is that there's just so much more that's being released, so many smaller projects. Naturally, this doesn't change a thing about Sturgeon's law; because almost anyone can make a movie, it means that so many more terrible movies are released, so many that they bury the truly inspired projects. They are out there, however, if you're willing to look for them. I can't really comment on the film side of this, as I'm anything but an expert on the medium. For music, however, it's a somewhat similar principle. So many people comment that "there's just no good music any more". This can be roughly translated to, "I just don't feel like looking for music I might enjoy". The industry has imploded to a size it could never even dream of approaching only two decades ago; there are more releases than any one person could ever hope to keep track of, more variety than there's ever been. If there's an obscure genre that has seemingly died away, I can all but guarantee that somewhere, it's had a revival. The downside is that because there's so much, it can no longer be easily spoon fed to the public. A second step has to be taken by the prospective listener, a step most don't have the time or inclination to take. Which is completely fine, of course, but it doesn't mean that the only music that exists is being played on Top 40 Radio.

It's not exactly the same situation with film, of course. In fact, the two industries are fundamentally different in more ways than I can count. However, I do think it's worth noting that past decades will automatically look better because history has filtered them. We remember the great films. We don't remember the thousands of forgotten films.

 

Ah, so I am not the only one who felt like I was being beat over the head by a Na'vi carbon fiber bow about nature vs. technology when it comes to Avatar.

 

You may very well be right. However, I think the only way we'll be able to tell for sure is in 20 years or so. The only way I think we can really see if a film ended up being defining to the medium is in retrospect.

 

On the subject of there being no more good historical films, it really sucks that Pompeii had to turn out the way it did. That movie (likely) bombing is sending a message to the film studios that people just aren't interested in historical epics any more, when really most people aren't seeing it not because it's a historical epic, but because it looks (and is, according to the reviews) absolutely awful. Definitely something of a lose-lose-situation.

 

Out of curiosity what were you expecting from IM3? I was wanting 2 hours of fun entertainment and got that easily, ditto Thor 2.

But, it might be said we're in an unusual time for film, because the dynamic has perhaps shifted from film to TV, due to the wider scope the latter offers. I've yet to get through the BBC's much lauded Hollow Crown series of Shakespere's historical quartet of Richard II, Henry IV Part 1 and 2, Henry V, but I've no reason to think it'll be anything less than brilliant - but that's still at the level of TV. As is The Wire and Shield and the insanely frequently praised Breaking Bad. It may be if you're seeking the smart stuff of the present, it is not film that you should be looking at!

 

To be honest, wasn't that doomed from the start? I don't think there is any way even Hollywood could make a disaster like Pompeii a film - it's volcano erupts where no one even knew it could happen, killing an entire town whose inhabitants had bugger all chance.

 

What's interesting is that film is a very young form of art, and TV even younger. I don't want to think that a movie made over 70 years ago is the best movie ever, I want it to be in the future. Mona Lisa wasn't made 60 years after painting was invented.

 

Heh, I'm on the side that actually really enjoyed Iron Man 3. It felt more like a Bourne movie than a superhero movie, and in this case, I'm perfectly fine with that. I really like how the entire movie was, intentionally or unintentionally, framed as an answer to Captain America's question in The Avengers: without the suit, what are you? Turns out, Iron Man is more than just a selfish guy in a suit. I loved that he had to fall back on resourcefulness and talent for inventions (some of them very amusing) instead of just pew-pewing everything with the Iron Man suit. There are problems with the movie, I have no problem admitting, but nothing that detracted from my enjoyment.

As for Pompeii being doomed from the start: possibly. I haven't seen the movie, so I can't say how much better or worse they could have made it. I still do get a sickly feeling that the earnings from that movie will, in some way, be used by studios to judge whether historical epics are still a profitable enterprise, though.