PT Have a random question? Ask in here. Newbie's read before posting!

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by SithStarSlayer, Feb 27, 2013.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. IG-193 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Well, if you look at their height and design, there's no reason that I can *see* why they can't wear it.
    They only get slightly bulky right in the middle, and not so much that it would be unreasonable to wear clone armor -- I *think*

    Anyone else weigh in?
  2. redlightning Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2014
    star 1
    So why exactly does most of the Galactic Senate or the citizens of the Republic believe that the Jedi Knights would have been part of a plot to start the Clone Wars as claimed by Palpatine after Order 66? The Jedi had protected the Republic for centuries without issue and maintained peace. Even if a cou to remove Palpatine had taken place, why did the Galaxy just cave to the hands of the Emperor? What exactly did everyone believe the Jedi were trying to gain out of it, especially when controlling less than half the Galaxy?

    The poor explanation of the and reasoning for the formation of the Empire in ROTS gives does not help. The Clone Wars show covering it does not explain it either.
  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    After several Jedi had turned bad during the war - the general public may have grown distrustful of Jedi in general.
  4. Rolf Larsen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2013
    star 1
    Why did it take ten years for Nute Gunray to try and take revenge on Padme by attempting to assassinate her?
    Last edited by Rolf Larsen, Jul 19, 2014
  5. Master Jedi Macen Arren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2013
    star 1
    Maybe he was trying to lay low for a while, I'd imagine that if just after the end of TPM if he was to start trying to assassinate her then everybody would have known it was him out for revenge. Maybe that's why, He just let things blow over for a while before he decided to act making it less suspicious.
  6. PCCViking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2014
    star 4

    That, and maybe Sidious told Gunray to wait. For example, wait until the Military Creation Act comes up to a vote. He kills her then, she can't vote against it. Sidious solves two problems at once. While it's the Jedi Council that suggests she leave Coruscant, Palpatine is only too happy to "encourage" her to leave, thus leaving a useful tool (Jar Jar) to exploit.
  7. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    When Dooku approached Gunray to have him join the Confederacy, one of Gunray's conditions for joining was having Padme be killed. Gunray probably didn't have the resources or courage to assassinate her on his own initiative.
    Last edited by timmoishere, Jul 20, 2014
    Iron_lord likes this.
  8. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    This is perhaps more speculation than anything, but do you think Palpatine believed in the prophecy? Even the Jedi had their doubts, and it seemed Qui-Gon was the only one who truly believed in it

    If Palpatine does believe the prophecy, does it not seem a little senseless to keep the one supposedly destined to destroy you right by your side especially when you admit that they will one day become more powerful?
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Palpatine, in the RoTS novel:


    "If only you could know how I have longed to tell you, Anakin. All these years—since the very day we met, my boy. I have watched over you, waiting as you grew in strength and wisdom, biding my time until now, today, when you are finally ready to understand who you truly are, and your true place in the history of the galaxy."
    Numb words blur from your numb lips. "The chosen one..."
    "Exactly, my boy. Exactly. You are the chosen one." He leans toward you, eyes clear. Steady. Utterly honest. "Chosen by me."
    He turns a hand toward the panorama of light-sprayed cityscape through window behind his desk. "Look out there, Anakin. A trillion beings on this planet alone—in the galaxy as a whole, uncounted quadrillions—and of them all, I have chosen you, Anakin Skywalker, to be the heir to my power. To all that I am."
    "But that's not... that's not the prophecy. That's not the prophecy of the chosen one..."
    "Is this such a problem for you? Is not your quest to find a way to overturn prophecy?" Palpatine leaned close, smiling, warm and kindly. "Anakin, do you think the Sith did not know of this prophecy? Do you think we would simply sleep while it came to pass?"
    "You mean—"
    "This is what you must understand. This Jedi submission to fate... this is not the way of the Sith, Anakin. This is not my way. This is not your way. It has never been. It need never be."
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jul 28, 2014
  10. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That moment is chilling.
    Darth Dominikkus and Iron_lord like this.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The RoTS novel, and to a lesser extent the RoTJ novel, seem heavy on such moments.
  12. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    They really are. The ST novels have a lot to live up to.
    darklordoftech and Iron_lord like this.
  13. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    All this tells us for sure is that he knows of it. Palpatine is known to lie to manipulate things how he wants
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Are the Geonosians military contractors for the Trade Federation?
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    And that he knows of the prophesy.
  16. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    That's... kind of exactly what I said lol
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Oops - early morning sleepiness at fault here.
    Seagoat likes this.
  18. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    That's what I've always thought, at least.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  19. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4

    I think another reason might be that, coming from Tatooine he was so used to wearing tan light clothing all his life, he broke with everything that visually represented the harsh desert planet. Only his undershirt is still tan in AOTC, while in ROTS he no longer wears tan at all.
  20. 00Beast Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2014
    I just finished re-watching Attack of the Clones with my dad and the same question is nagging at me once again- it might have the simplest of answers and I might be making myself look like a total fool, but could someone please explain to me why Padme is being targeted throughout the movie? Also, what is the motive behind Count Dooku and the Separatist leaders' plot against the Republic?

    I saw Attack of the Clones in theaters with my dad when it came out in 2002- at the time, I was in the 1st grade and obviously wasn't paying attention to anything but lightsaber battles and blaster fights, haha. Only recently have I started re-watching the Star Wars movies for more than just flash and spectacle, so that's why some of these finer plot details are a bit hazy- I never really learned them as a kid because I was too engrossed in lightsabers and blasters!
  21. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Nute Gunray has a personal grudge against Padme and wants her dead.

    Dooku is obviously in league with Sidious.

    The Separatist motive is basically just greed. Whatever their plot is, the end is to gain more power and wealth.
  22. Meyerm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2014
    star 1
    The Separatist leaders (except Dooku) want to forge a corporate-friendly galactic government, while some like Grievous just want to see the jedi and the republic dead. Dooku knows most of Sidious's plan and knows the CIS is just a puppet to help create The Empire. The only difference is, in the plan Dooku was told, Anakin would be turned to a dark side adept when Kenobi was killed aboard the Invisible Hand (where Dooku died in actuality). Anakin, now in on the plot, would then arrest Dooku, where he'd later defect and emerge as the Emperor's executioner after the war.

    What exactly did Dooku's treaty with Gunray entail? The Trade Federation droids were already being integrated into the Separatist army, and Gunray already appeared to be a member of the council, so it can't be a treaty of allegiance.
  23. DarthLannister Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Something has always bugged about how much Nute Gunray and the other Separatists' knew of Sidious's true identity and his true plans. I had always assumed that the Separatists, Grievous included, never knew that Sidious was in fact Palpatine and that CIS was merely a tool to bring about the creation of the Empire. And this seems to be the generally accepted fact. It certainly seems like this in the films. They never refer to him as Palpatine, and they treat Palpatine as a completely different person. When Obi-wan is spying on Dooku's meeting with the potential Separatists leaders on Geonosis, Dooku never mentions that this is all actually being arranged by the Chancellor himself. Also, when Obi-wan is eavesdropping on the Seapartists' meeting on Utapau, Gunray tells Grievous that "Chancellor Palpatine managed to escape [Grievous's] grip." If he knew Palpatine and Sidious were the same person, I doubt he'd say something like this. All-in-all, it seems pretty likely that Gunray and the other Separatists had no idea Palpatine and Sidious were the same person and that he really didn't give a crap about the CIS.

    However, something Gunray says in ROTS confuses me on this matter. Shortly after Anakin turns to the Darkside and Sidious issues Order 66, Sidious contacts the Separatists on Mustafar to let them know Vader is coming to "take care of them." During this conversation, Gunray says to Sidious: "The plan has gone as you had promised, my lord." To which plan is he referring exactly? Is the plan simply that the Jedi would be made to look like they're rebelling thus prompting the Republic to exterminate them? Or his he referring to Sidious/Palpatine's larger scheme to use the CIS and Clone Wars war to eventually make himself the sole ruler of the galaxy? If the latter is indeed the plan that Gunray was talking about, then this means that he and the other Separatists actually did know all along that Sidious and Palpatine were the same person and that they were basically just being used for his own gain.

    Another line of Gunray's that points to him and the Separatists knowing the entire plan is what he says to Vader right before Vader kills him. He says, "The war is over. Lord Sidious promised us peace." Does he mean that the Separatists were led to believe that if they were accomplices in Sidious's take over of the galaxy, they'd somehow be spared from any retribution once the CIS was eventually defeated and reabsorbed into the Empire? I honestly don't know what else he could've meant by this. If the Separatists thought that the CIS was simply a means to break away from the Republic and satisfy their own greedy desires, why would they think they'd be guaranteed peace if they've been defeated?

    Again, a lot of evidence in the films indicates that Gunray and the other Separatists leaders were totally oblivious to Sidious's true nature, but these two lines of dialog kinda cast some doubt on that. For me, anyway. Is there something I'm missing? Is the plan he's referring to something obvious, and I'm just overthinking it? I tried looking into this on Wookieepedia on Gunray's entry, but it doesn't really clear this up. Thoughts? Sorry if this seems like nonsensical rambling.

    Sidenote: if this doesn't mean that Gunray knew Sidious's true identity, then I still find this plot point pretty ludicrous, as I always have, since Palpatine never really even had a disguise. Being such a prominent figure, one would think his voice and half of his face would eventually be recognized. But, that's for another post...
    Last edited by DarthLannister, Aug 19, 2014
  24. PCCViking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2014
    star 4
    Maybe Gunray thought Palpatine would be disposed of in some form of fashion. Maybe Sidious led him to believe the Jedi would "kill Palpatine," thus allowing Sidious to turn the Republic against the Jedi.
  25. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    @DarthLannister

    In the Plagueis Book, Palpatine reveals himself to Nute Gunray, but only as Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith.
    He never mentions him being a senator or having any affiliation with the Senate.

    Darth Plagueis (open)
    The comm caught Viceroy Nute Gunray in the midst of eating, and without the ear-flapped tiara and ornate azurestone collar that made him look like a jester. “Greetings, Viceroy,” Sidious said.
    The nictitating membranes of the Neimoidian’s crimson eyes went into spasm, and his mottled muzzle twitched. “What? What? This is a secure address. How did you—”
    “Don’t bother attempting to trace the origin of this communication,” Sidious said, while Gunray’s tapered gray fingers flew across the keypad of his holotable. “A trace will only lead you in circles and waste what limited time we have.”
    “How dare you intrude—”
    “Recently, I sent you a gift. A red-spotted pylat.”
    Gunray stared. “You? You sent it?”
    “I trust you had sense enough to have it scanned for monitoring devices.”
    Gunray whirled to look at something off cam; probably the crested bird itself. “Of course I did. What was your purpose in sending it?” His accent elongated the words and softened the T sounds.
    “Consider it a token of my appreciation for the unrewarded work you have done for the Trade Federation. The directorate fails to recognize your contributions.”
    “They—that is, I … Why are you hiding inside the cowl of your cloak?”
    “It is the clothing of my Order, Viceroy.”
    “You are a cleric?”
    “Do I seem a holy man to you?”
    Gunray’s expression soured. “I demand to see your face.”
    “You have yet to earn the privilege of seeing me.”
    “Privilege? Who do you think you are?”
    “Are you certain you want to know?”
    “I demand to know.”
    Sidious’s smile barely escaped the cowl. “Even better, then. I am a Sith Lord.”
    There. I said it.
    I said it …
    “Sith Lord?” Gunray repeated.
    The response came from deep inside him, from the center of his true being. “You have permission to refer to me as Darth Sidious.”
    “I’ve not heard of Darth Sidious.”
    “Ah, but now that you have, our partnership is forged.”
    Gunray shook his head. “I am not looking for a partner.”
    Sidious showed some of his face. “Don’t pretend to be content with your position in the Trade Federation, or that you are without aspirations. We are now partners in the future.”
    Gunray made a hissing sound. “This is a joke. The Sith have been extinct for a thousand years.”
    “That’s precisely what the Republic and the Jedi Order would like you to believe, but we never disappeared. Through the centuries we have taken up just causes and revealed ourselves to select beings like yourself.”
    Gunray sat back in his chair. “I don’t understand. Why me?”
    “You and I share an avid interest in where the Republic is headed, and I have deemed it time that we begin to work in concert.”
    “I won’t be part of any covert schemes.”
    “Truly?” Sidious said. “Do you think that out of millions of influential beings I would choose you without knowing you inside and out? I realize that your voracious desires stem from the cruel conditions of your upbringing—you and your fellow grubs in ruthless competition for limited supplies of fungus. But I understand. We are all shaped by our infantile desires, our longing for affection and attention, our fears of death. And judging by how far you have come, it’s clear that you were unrivaled and continue to be. Your years in the Senate, for example. The clandestine meetings in the Claus Building, the Follin Restaurant in the Crimson Corridor, the funds you diverted to Pax Teem and Aks Moe, the secret dealings with Damask Holdings, the assassination of Vidar Kim—”
    “Enough! Enough! Do you mean to blackmail me?”
    Sidious delayed his reply. “Perhaps you didn’t hear me when I spoke of a partnership.”
    “I heard you. Now tell me what you want of me.”
    “Nothing more than your cooperation. I will bring about great changes for you, and in exchange you will do the same for me.”
    Gunray looked worried. “You claim to be a Dark Lord. But how do I know that you are? How do I know you have any ability to help me?”
    “I found you a rare bird.”
    “That hardly validates your claim.”
    Sidious nodded. “I understand your skepticism. I could, of course, demonstrate my powers. But I’m reluctant to convince you in that way.”
    Gunray sniffed. “I haven’t time for this—”
    “Is the pylat nearby?”
    “Just behind me,” Gunray allowed.
    “Show me.”
    Gunray widened the scope of the holotable’s cams to include the bird, perched in a cage that was little more than a circle of precious metal, crowned with a stasis field generator.
    “I was concerned, when I extracted him from the jungle habitat, that he would die,” Sidious said. “And yet he appears to be at home in his new environment.”
    “His songs suggest as much,” Gunray replied.
    “What if I told you that I could reach across space and time and strangle him where he perches?”
    Gunray was aghast. “You couldn’t. I doubt that even a Jedi—”
    “Are you challenging me, Viceroy?”
    “Yes,” he said abruptly; then, just as quickly: “No—wait!”
    Sidious shifted in the chair. “You value the bird—this symbol of wealth.”
    “I am the envy of my peers for possessing it.”
    “Would not actual wealth generate even greater envy?”
    Gunray grew flustered. “How can I answer, when I know that you might strangle me should I refuse you?”
    Sidious loosed an elaborate sigh. “Partners don’t strangle each other, Viceroy. I would prefer to earn your trust. Are you agreeable to that?”
    “I might be.”
    “Then here is my first gift to you: the Trade Federation is going to be betrayed. By Naboo, by the Republic, by the members of the directorate. Only you can provide the leadership that will be needed to keep the Federation from splintering. But first we must see to it that you are promoted to the directorate.”
    “The current directorate would never welcome a Neimoidian.”
    “Tell me what it would take—” Sidious started, then cut himself off. “No. Never mind. Let me surprise you by arranging a promotion.”
    “You would do that and ask nothing in return?”
    “For the time being. If and when I’ve earned your full trust, I will expect you to take my suggestions to heart.”
    “I will. Darth Sidious.”
    “Then we will speak again soon.”
    Sidious deactivated the holoprojector and sat in silence.
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