PT The "What-If?" Depository - ALL conceptual/hypothetical conversation goes here

Opening the temple at Malachor wadnt a Rule of Two thing as Kanan and Ezra had to open the temple on Lothal together as well.

Also, the Jedi were under the impression that the Sith were extict for 1000 years until TPM. They would not have thought that if they knew of the Rule of Two. The whole idea was that the Sith were wiped out as far as the Jedi knew, and Bane's Rue of Two allowed them to plot in secrecy, much like the Jedi did themselves come the OT.

 

Well the Jedi in TPM onwards know of the ROT, so it must have existed before they went into hiding.

TCW also shows that Yoda knows that Bane invented the rule.

 

It's possible, I suppose, that Yoda or other Jedi encountered Sith during that 1000 year stretch, or uncovered Sith artifacts or documents in that time, able to pass on what they'd learned, and perhaps even thinking they'd stopped the threat along the way.

 

Right, but how? It seems to be a conflict in canon to me. The Jedi knowing about it prior to them going into hiding largley defeats it purpose.

 

Not necessarily. They may have known the Sith's tendencies, organization prior to the supposed extinction of the Sith. Maybe the Sith had already gone into the Rule of Two phase around 1000 BBY and the Jedi thought they had defeated them all, either not accounting for Darth Bane himself or his apprentice.

 

Thats just it. 1000 years before TPM the larger quantity of Sith were defeated, but Bane survived unbeknownst to the Sith and started the ROT. If thats the case, the Jedi could not have been aware of it. If thats is not the case, one of the biggest reasons for the ROT in the first place doesnt make sense, which is the ability to carry on the Sith agenda in wait until the right time.

 

Reading the ROTS novel has me wondering this:

Why didn't Padmé inform the Jedi of Anakin? Or at least Obi-Wan? Case in point: Anakin's growing increasingly paranoid and controlling, citing that even Obi-Wan -- the closest thing Anakin has to a friend -- is against him in some way and Padmé just...doesn't tell Obi-Wan what's going on? You'd think all this would've been avoided if she had gone to him and told him what was happening?

 

Letting the Council know that she's aware of his deepest, darkest secrets would at least hint a little that their relationship is closer than just good friends. I'm sure the Council knew they still talked with each other. It's not hard to believe they'd have developed a good relationship from his time as her bodyguard, but they would most likely be pretty low profile about how much they really do know each other

As for Obi-Wan; not sure if it's considered canon or not (might even be in the novel) but there was a scene early on in the story, shortly after getting back to Coruscant, I believe, where Obi-Wan figures out they're married and promises Padme he won't tell anybody. It could be she thought Obi-Wan might talk to Anakin about it, which could upset him more

 

The deleted scene doesn't actually say outright that he's figured out the existence of the marriage - but it's pretty clear that knows the relationship is beyond what's normally permissible for Jedi:

PADME and OBI-WAN sit on one of the couches.
OBI-WAN: Has Anakin been to see you?
PADME: Several times . . . I was so happy to hear he was accepted on the Jedi Council.
OBI-WAN: I know ... he deserves it. He is impatient, strong willed, very opinionated, but truly gifted.
They laugh.
PADME: You're not just here to say hello. Something is wrong, isn't it?
OBI-WAN: You should be a Jedi, Padme.
PADME: You're not very good at hiding your feelings.
OBI-WAN: It's Anakin . . . He's becoming moody and detached. He's been put in a difficult position as the Chancellor's representative . . . but I think it's more than that. I was hoping he may have talked to you.
PADME: Why would he talk to me about his work?
OBI-WAN studies her.
OBI-WAN: Neither of you is very good at hiding your feelings either.
PADME: Don't give me that look.
OBI-WAN: I know how he feels about you.
PADME: (nervous) What did he say?
OBI-WAN: Nothing. He didn't have to.
PADME is a little flustered. She stands and Obi-Wan follows. She walks to the balcony.
PADME: I don't know what you're talking about.
OBI-WAN: I know you both too well. I can see you two are in love. Padme, I'm worried about him.
PADME looks down and doesn't answer.
OBI-WAN: (continuing) I fear your relationship has confused him. He's changed considerably since we returned . . .
They stand on the balcony and look off at the early morning city. OBI-WAN starts to leave. PADME stays looking off into the distant city.
OBI-WAN: (continuing) Padme, I'm not telling the Council about any of this. I ... I hope I didn't upset you. We're all friends, I care about both of you . . .
PADME: Thank you, Obi-Wan.
OBI-WAN: Please do what you can to help him.

 

If it's a conflict in canon, it would be the other materials conflicting with the movies, not the movies conflicting.

But I was under the impression that the Rule of Two was created because the Sith destroyed themselves, not because they were hiding from the Jedi. It was the only way Bane saw that there weren't too many self-interested Sith fighting each other for all the power. And if that's the case, then why wouldn't the Jedi figure it out? It could also be that the Jedi thought at some point they had killed both Master and Apprentice and considered them gone.

 

I guess the question becomes "What is canon for the Rule of Two in regard to its purpose?"

My understanding was always that going into hiding was in fact one of the reasons for the rule, along with the idea that a group/army of Sith created too much infighting and power struggle. Of course most of my thoughts of this are pre-Disney.

Is there a new canon Sith history that addresses this?

 

Apparently the upcoming Star Wars Propaganda: A History of Persuasive Art in the Galaxy is going to address a little bit of it - that the birth of the 1000-year old Republic, which replaced the Old Republic, was at the time the Sith were driven off Coruscant.

From the Databank, we know that it was the "decimation" of the Sith by the Jedi, those 1000 years ago, that contributed to Bane creating the Rule of Two:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/darth-bane

though infighting probably made that decimation possible in the first place.

And from the Tarkin novel, we know there existed a Sith shrine on Coruscant 5000 years before the novel (which is set in 15BBY or so) - So Sith existed at least that far back.

 

So hopefully the upcoming material will tell us more about the Sith being in hiding as part of the function of the Rule of Two.

 

I'm hoping Jakku becomes the new Ruusan. Maybe the pre-Banite's Sith final stand and the resulting battle/cataclysm is what turns Jakku into the desolate place we see today.

 

We know that a planet called Ruusan exists in the newcanon - TCW mentioned it:


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ruusan

 

as far as the expanded universe would go as far as the prequel timeline how many Jedi and Sith lightsabers that made it into the toy line and I don't mean the regular basic assortment I mean the force effects I need something to collect but of course something unique

 

He's desperate. I think it all boils down to that.

 

Sidious said to Yoda that Vader would grow to be more powerful than both of them. But we know his plan was not exactly the Sith rule of two(in which the apprentice overthrows the master) as he planned on ruling the galaxy for a very long time with a second in command. So, if he didn't plan on Vader being injured on Mustafar, how did he hope to weaken his apprentice's power so that he wouldn't be a threat to overthrow him?

 

I think that he was going to manipulate him mentally into subservience. He was already pretty good at that, and I think he was just going to keep it going. Vader's injuries on Mustafar worked out for him very well though, because it made Vader physically vulnerable to the Emperor, on top of already being being emotionally vulnerable.

That's just my $0.02.

 

I can see how he could try but that's not how the dark side works. Before Anakin turned Sith he was subservient and complied with Palpatines every wish. As SOON as he became Vader he said openly to him "I will do whatever you..ask"
But then shortly afterwards told Padme "I can overthrow him". That's because the way of the dark side and the Sith is to be selfish and crave an insatiable amount of power. So Palpatine wouldn't have said anything that would make him subservient enough to not threaten him as that would make him not a Sith.

I guess I'm just asking if any novelizations show that the Emperor had any contingencies plans for Vader's inevitable subversion.

 

His plan was he would just use Padme to keep him on a leash, basically. Normally, he would probably just have her killed; Sith philosophy is that attachments weaken you and limit your power, thus the "chains" mentioned in the Sith Code. But she was the only thing he could use that kept Vader under his complete control

Speculation here, but had she ended up dead anyways, then his plan would probably be that Vader was so broken that Sidious would be all he had left and would therefore keep following him. He would otherwise indeed have overthrown him. If he did end up killing Obi-Wan, Padme would probably still have died right then and there, and he'd likely fall into uncontrollable anger which would not allow him to defeat Sidious. Cue a humiliating defeat and some Force Lightning to make him realize his place, and he would still ultimately likely forever end up as nothing more than a pawn

 

You think he would attack the Emperor even after he saw she died from his own hands? You think he would've been in such a blind rage that he would destroy everything in his surrounding? Oh, that would've been something to see.
Non-mechanical/non-weakened in the force Vader at full rage mode. If they did fight, I don't think Sidious would've won so easily. And they would've had a much more tumultuous relationship.

 

In the BTS and first trailer of ROTS when Vader is being made, his hands in a different spot than in movie. Was wondering how George changed this? CGI'ed his hands in different spot?

 

B99

Exactly. It was filmed with his hands cuffed up near his shoulders, but it was changed to have them down at his sides with CGI

 

Got a question about The Phantom Menace regarding Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Darth Maul. Do you guys think that Obi-Wan had already surpassed Qui-Gon during the battle with Dart Maul regarding combat expertise or were Maul just tired? Obi-Wan is known to be a better swordsman than Qui-Gon was if I remember right?