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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Have people forgotten WHAT kind of movie Star Wars actually is?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Billy_Dee_Binks, Jun 1, 2004.

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  1. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 29, 2002
    Claims like cheesy dialogue and flat acting makes me believe so.


    MATINEE MOVIES!!
    George Lucas always said how much he loved those and how his movies resemble them. The acting and dialogue in the love scenes are a bit cheesy. Of course they are! They used the old formula to produce them.

    I really wonder why people say the OT is classic but the PT isn't. How's that? Because, the PT has not yet finished and you have to let a movie stand the test of time to make it become a classic.

    The acting job in SW always was just a tool for the story. There are some really outstanding acting performances throughout the five episodes so far. Other than that, the actors just play the character, IMO very believeable. I mean, Mark Hamill is the farmboy that later becomes a Jedi, Hayden Christensen was a slave that will soon be the evil Darth Vader.....

    What I really love about the SW Saga is the fact that there is no other movie series today that uses so many different movie genres, myths and religions to create a modern fairytale.

    Western, Samurai (especially in the PT), Sci-Fi (of course), World history (from designs to whatnot), War (not just from the 20th century), humor, mythology, religions (lots of different interpretations), Knighthood tales,.......

    you name it, most can be found in this epic story- and it fits in there.
     
  2. RogueScribner

    RogueScribner Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    MATINEE MOVIES!!
    George Lucas always said how much he loved those and how his movies resemble them. The acting and dialogue in the love scenes are a bit cheesy. Of course they are! They used the old formula to produce them.


    Okay, then why doesn't anyone ever knock the dialogue and acting of the Indiana Jones series? Same principle. Face it: George is not an actor's director. Not every director is. His dialogue has grown less cheesy over the years, but it's still not great. But what are ya gonna do? It's Star Wars. :)

    L8r
     
  3. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 29, 2002
    I guess because people are too afraid to get bashed if they say something negative about Harrison Ford.
     
  4. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

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    Sep 9, 2001

    Okay, then why doesn't anyone ever knock the dialogue and acting of the Indiana Jones series? Same principle. Face it:


    Face what? Your opinion?

    George is not an actor's director. Not every director is. His dialogue has grown less cheesy over the years, but it's still not great.

    What is "great"? Characters speaking with wit and timing that few people in real life possess?

    But what are ya gonna do? It's Star Wars.

    Lucas is a better director than he gets credit for. No, he's not an "actor's director" per se; he expects actors to do their job without having to babysit them.

    On the one hand, he gets slammed for being a total non-entity who sits around picking his nose while his actors flounder about. But on the other hand, he gets slammed for being an iron-fisted tyrant who won't allow his actors any freedom to interpret their characters and says, "My way or the highway."

    Which is it?
     
  5. GORILLA

    GORILLA Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2002
    There is a difference between giving an actor confidence and motivation on how to really nail a particular scene and allowing an actor who is on fire and really felling his character the freedom to take the character where his performance let's him. GL gives neither of these to actors.
     
  6. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

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    Sep 9, 2001
    Actually, according to several of the actors he's directed, he has.

    Oops, I forgot. Anyone who compliments Lucas is just kissing up to him in fear of being fired, and/or just trying to be nice to their highest profile boss. At least, that's what I've been told by self-appointed experts.
     
  7. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Again with this. The media doesnt like the PT because the media is controlled by old-money families, who also control Hollywood and THEY ALL HATE LUCAS BECAUSE HE REPRESENTS " NEW MONEY " AND HE'S AN ARTIST WITH COMPLETE ARTISTIC CONTROL OF HIS WORK, WHICH HAPPENED BECAUSE HOLLYWOOD DROPPED THE BALL BY ASSUMING THAT GL'S VISION COULD NEVER BE PULLED OFF AND FOOLISHLY ALLOWED HIM MERCHANDISING AND OWNERSHIP RIGHTS TO SW BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD SAVE MONEY BY NOT PAYING HIM A SALARY!!!
    Im sorry to shout but Ive wrote this many times before and having an active curiosity in conspiracy theories I feel very strongly about this. Im gonna shout one more time: DONT WORRY SW FANS ABOUT WHAT YOU READ IN THE PAPERS AND FOR GODS SAKE DONT BE INFLUENCED BY IT. THE WORLD-WIDE BOX OFFICE RECEIPTS, THE HUNDREDS OF FAN WEB SITES, THE TOYS, THE NOVELS, THE COMIC BOOKS - THOSE ARE THE TRUE INDICATORS OF THE POPULARITY OF SW AND IT HASNT WANED ONE IOTA IN ALMOST 30 YEARS!!!! Id bet you dollars to doughnuts that if you took a serious, person to person poll of who likes/hates all six movies of the SW Saga that the numbers would overwhemingly favor the SW lovers.
     
  8. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    Indiana Jones has great lines because it was written by great screen writers like Kasdan and Gloria Katz. In Indy the line are more important, they are more crucial to the story.

    In SW, I have no problem with the lines
    but the lines are not as important to the overall picture.

    -Seldon
     
  9. Guinastasia

    Guinastasia Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 9, 2002
    I've been saying this all along, but people only hear what they want to hear.
     
  10. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 29, 2002
    I too believe the PT goes through almost exactly the same as the OT did, only that the Internet is a important medium today and the movies are actually sequels that are getting released a half generation later.

    Kids (and adults) love the new Episodes and they will keep it in their hearts. It's possible that IF there ever will be a Seuqel Trilogy (which I hope won't happen- it could lessen the effect of ROTJ ending) people who grew up with the PT will bash it the same as people who grew up with the OT as they did it with the PT.

    Oh well, back to topic Hayden's performance sure was corny in some places but that's Anakin's character. As a sidenote, all of his scenes on Tatooine are acted great. They stand out as one of the most challenging performances of the Saga yet.
     
  11. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    As far as I know, people were bashing TESB when it came out because it was too dark, because Yoda was silly and you couldn't understand what he was saying(Jar Jar, anyone?), because the ending was left open so that you would be forced to watch the next episode and give Lucas more cash....

    Things never change. It's kinda sad, really, that those who complain like this are almost always waaay older than the target audience.
    Accept your growing up and leave Star Wars to the kids if you can't stand it!

    Star Wars is indeed matinee and that's actually the reason we all love it so much. Because it's so fastpaced and lighthearted, it's easy to watch Star Wars over and over and fall in love with the incredible story that lies underneath.
    Lucas is a genious!
     
  12. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Agreed.

    Lucas himself said that C-3PO was just as hated as Jar Jar was in TPM. He quoted a newspaper from then asking if 3PO will ever shut up.

    I guess, as soon as our generation is...um, dead the next generation (who are very young right now) will see these movies with totally different eyes as they loved them from the start.

    All this bashing and uber-gushing will be over, those stupid critics will be frying in hell, same with the Hollywood/ Academy Awards driven media. The kids of today will remember it as a classic.



     
  13. GORILLA

    GORILLA Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Things never change. It's kinda sad, really, that those who complain like this are almost always waaay older than the target audience.
    Accept your growing up and leave Star Wars to the kids if you can't stand it!


    What target audience? I've seen old news footage of people standing in massive lines to see ANH back in 1977. They were almost all young adults, teenagers and college kids. Star Wars had no set target audience. It was for everybody, young children to young adults. It's the STORY itself that matters, not how the story was told. I'll go and watch anything, no matter what the theme or the genre, as long as the story is good and the characters are interesting.

    All this bashing and uber-gushing will be over, those stupid critics will be frying in hell, same with the Hollywood/ Academy Awards driven media. The kids of today will remember it as a classic.

    Not my son if I have anything to say about it. All children who will grow to inherit Star Wars after my generation and worship the PT over the OT can go to hell aslo.
     
  14. RogueScribner

    RogueScribner Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 17, 2004
    Lucas is a better director than he gets credit for. No, he's not an "actor's director" per se; he expects actors to do their job without having to babysit them.

    Have you directed before? There's a difference between giving good direction to an actor to bring out a desired performance and babysitting them. But then, a good director would know this. Not all actors are created equally. Some prefer to be left alone to do their thing while others require more support to bring out their A game. But that's the actors' problem, right? The director shouldn't be bothered with such worries as having good performances in his films. Time is better spent coming up with interesting new ways to replace actors with computers.

    L8r
     
  15. Darth_Meul

    Darth_Meul Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Not my son if I have anything to say about it. All children who will grow to inherit Star Wars after my generation and worship the PT over the OT can go to hell aslo.

    If we're going to hell for having an opinion, I guess we're all screwed.
     
  16. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 29, 2002
    I addressed the hell thing mainly to critics and the media (Academy driven). Those who really deserve it. :p
     
  17. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    Have you directed before? There's a difference between giving good direction to an actor to bring out a desired performance and babysitting them. But then, a good director would know this.

    Yep. And Lucas knows this.

    Not all actors are created equally. Some prefer to be left alone to do their thing while others require more support to bring out their A game.

    Which Lucas understands.

    But that's the actors' problem, right? The director shouldn't be bothered with such worries as having good performances in his films. Time is better spent coming up with interesting new ways to replace actors with computers.

    If you say so. I'm just glad Lucas doesn't have that philosophy.
     
  18. RogueScribner

    RogueScribner Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 17, 2004
    Which is it, Shelley? You make excuses for Lucas by saying he shouldn't have to babysit his actors and then you say he understands actors and how to work with them to bring out desired performances. You inferred that directors (like Lucas) shouldn't have to put any time into dealing with his actors to nuture a performance and after I counter that you say Lucas knows and does this. Huh?

    L8r
     
  19. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    Which is it, Shelley? You make excuses for Lucas by saying he shouldn't have to babysit his actors and then you say he understands actors and how to work with them to bring out desired performances.

    Uh...OK. Please explain how "babysitting" is the same thing as "understanding actors and how to work with them to bring out desired performances."

    You inferred that directors (like Lucas) shouldn't have to put any time into dealing with his actors

    I didn't infer any such thing, you simply interpreted it the way you wanted to.

    To nuture a performance and after I counter that you say Lucas knows and does this. Huh?

    Huh? indeed. Let me repeat what I said:

    Lucas is a better director than he gets credit for. No, he's not an "actor's director" per se; he expects actors to do their job without having to babysit them.

    Seems to me that what the Lucas-bashers claim is an "actor's director" is one who babysits actors, who treats them like they have no idea what they are doing. Lucas is not that kind of director. He has confidence in his actors. It's not that he doesn't care about their performances, because he does, and several of the actors he's worked with have testified to this: Hayden Christensen, Harrison Ford, Liam Neeson. Of course, the Lucas-bashers dismiss their quotes, because any positive remarks are not to be trusted, only negative remarks.
     
  20. RogueScribner

    RogueScribner Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 17, 2004
    Seems to me that that's a blanket statement with no basis in reality. Whoever said Lucas had to coddle his actors?

    L8r
     
  21. b-wingmasterburnz

    b-wingmasterburnz Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 27, 2004
    I hear people say that Lucas is trying too hard, and that his jokes aren't funny.
    SW has always been ahead of its time! It's not a sin to use special effects! I remember the days when people would look at special effects and say "Cool!" not "Who is he trying to impress?"
    As for the jokes, SW has always had that dry sense of humor! Binks and Threepio were way too over the top, but jeez! I say they have forgotten what SW is supposed to be. There's nothing wrong with the movies, it's just not what people were looking for.
    People, incidentally, suck.
     
  22. SaberGiiett7

    SaberGiiett7 Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 2, 2002
    b-wingmasterburnz: There is such a thing as *excessive* use of computer-generated imagining. I'm not asking, "who is he trying to impress?" I'm looking for the charm the Original Trilogy had.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a avid fan of the Prequel Trilogy. But I believe that when you step out of the bounds the Original Trilogy defined, and you try to attain something more, it doesn't work.

    I still stand by my thoughts that weak dialogue, a cartoonish feel, and an overall family-oriented atmosphere to the Prequel Trilogy has plagued it; this thread doesn't change anything.

    I'm not stubborn. I just think the idea that Star Wars films are matinee films is irrelevent.

    I know when you present opinions that don't necessarily adhere to mainstream Star Wars fans opinion, you're going to get rebuked.

    The evidence is there, with the awkward dialogue of Attack of the Clones, to the zaniness of Jar Jar Binks in The Phantom Menace, to the shared amount of CGI ladened in both of the films so far.

    <[-]> Saber

     
  23. TheUnchosenOne

    TheUnchosenOne Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Mar 11, 2001
    I love Star Wars because these films are what they are: Fun flicks for "kids" of all ages, action-driven "B-movies" with "A" production values, modern-day fairy tales, myth-fueled escapades, whatever.

    But there are days when I like Star Wars simply because no one else seems to like it ? or more accurately, will admit to liking it. Some days, that's good enough for me.

    Lucas will probably be appreciated more in about 100 years. But he's doing fine right now.
     
  24. TheVioletBurns

    TheVioletBurns Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 27, 2002
    TheUnchosenOne: I like your style. :)
     
  25. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
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