Lit Have the character shields of the Big Three been breached?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by instantdeath, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    So, one thing I should get out of the way is that this is really nothing more than a speculation thread. Nonetheless, I am interested in hearing predictions.

    So, it's no secret that since the original trilogy ended, Luke, Han and Leia have been effectively invincible. That hasn't stopped others from worrying they'd be killed every single story, of course. I personally rolled my eyes every time I saw a prediction that Luke would die in FOTJ, for example. It's been made clear that if they die in the EU, it would be on Lucas' terms. Only now, there's the ST to contend with.

    Here's the speculation part. We have no idea what the ST will do. For this threads purposes, though, let's assume the ST Kyle Katarn's the post-ROTJ EU. Maybe certain elements, characters and plotlines survive, but for the most part, it's destroyed. If I were running Del Ray, and had confirmation that the ST would be going in an entirely different direction, I'd commission an "ending" to this iteration of the post-ROTJ EU. For some, an ending would be everyone surviving, with the Big Three sitting on a beach somewhere sipping martinis. Of course, if for nothing else but shock value, it's entirely possible they might not make it there.

    Do you believe it will be possible for Luke, Han or Leia to be killed in this version of the EU? Do you think someone like Denning will positively leap at the opportunity, possibly even moving it up to Crucible? Given recent trends in Star Wars, do you believe they'll opt to kill one of the three, if not more? At this point, do you even care? Will Lucas care?

    I find it interesting that, after thirty years, it's possible that these untouchable characters are suddenly vulnerable. That does not mean, in my opinion, that writers should jump at the chance to kill them just to kill them. Frankly, I feel the EU would be better served with a happy ending, ala The Unifying Force. But given how faux grimdark LOTF and, to a lesser extent, FOTJ was, I'm not sure if I'd expect it.
  2. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    We already had the Legacy comics which are set in a period where they all have died and Luke shows up as a Force Ghost. So they already are dead, we just did not get to see them die, and I really don’t have that much of an interest in actually seeing it happen.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Feb 14, 2013
  3. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    As I said before, too many characters end up getting killed. Some of them should just die off-screen because of old age (such as Ackbar and Mon Mothma).
  4. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    Not even scratched, and the possibility won't even come up until after the ST is well and done. And even then probably not.

    Even Luke's appearance as a ghost in Legacy had to be qualified with the "well MAYBE Cade just imagined it". And I'd be willing to bet hard money that Ostrander had to include that due to Lucasfilm's insistence.
  5. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the NJO series I truly was worried that the big 3 would die. Since then I knew they have to die and I will take it badly but the writers aren't really making that worried for their deaths.
  6. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Breach the character shields of the Big Three?

    That would take a thousand ships with more firepower than...

    You get the picture. :p

    --Adm. Nick
    tjace, instantdeath, Jedi Ben and 6 others like this.
  7. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    If we're operating on the assumption that the ST will eliminate at least some of the extant post ROTJ EU, most likely the NJO onward, then yes, I think there would be some possibility for Del Rey to write an appropriate ending to what will effectively become an alternate Star Wars universe, and that killing one or potentially all big three members (or even a lesser shielded character like Wedge) would be very possible.

    However, I do not see any way this would happen until after the ST is finished, or at the very least one movie is out and it's clear that the timelines have been separated. 'Yuuzhan Vong Star Wars' deserves an appropriate conclusion.

    If we're getting really speculative, I agree that Denning would leap at this chance. I'd also suspect that Mortis would be involved and that not only would one of the big three die one of the others, probably Luke, would transcend his/her humanity and become a member of a new trinity of Ones (Denning has turned mortals into gods before).
  8. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    why is wedge character shielded?
  9. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    Because Wedge is awesome. No other reason needed. :cool:

    --Adm. Nick
    Jedi Ben and Havac like this.
  10. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    Because Blackmoon Eleven is the greatest pilot of all time.
  11. beccatoria Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2006
    star 4
    No, it's made their shields stronger, given the current rumours they're being approached to at least make cameo appearances in the ST. If they die, it'll be on the big screen. Or at least, the possibility of them dying in the EU will be tabled until well after Disney's finished the ST and is deep into its dozen spin-off movies.

    Sure, if they decide to totally split off the EU into some Ultimate Universe sort of thing, then all bets are off, but honestly, I don't believe they'll do that. It's the sort of meticulous attention to continuity and detail that would be appreciated by the hardcore fans, but also, that's the group of fans who would be most disappointed by the downgrading in status of their stories. And for the vast majority of readers, the ones who push the novels onto the NYT lists, the simple, uncomplicated connection to the franchise is more important. Of course, one could argue that therefore those readers wouldn't know or care if it was an "ultimate" universe and one might be right. Still I think we're gonna get what we got with the PT and then TCW. "We'll sort it out later, everything's still real," even if there's stuff that's blatantly impossible to reconcile.

    If the ST contradicts a lot of the EU, we're just going to be left with a giant mess and we'll keep wading through it. The EU won't respond by splintering off entirely.
    kataja likes this.
  12. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Why is there a need for the shields to go anyway? This notion that the possibility of death must be dangled in order to gain reader interest has never really flown for me. Probably because it's a very narrow notion.

    But then there's the other, weird chronological element - you have a book like Mindor, very acclaimed, but on this basis it'll be damned because nothing can really happen to the characters because they're alive at a later time. This is absurdly reductionist! What of experiences beyond merely surviving?
    ChildOfWinds and instantdeath like this.
  13. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I've all along had the impression the BIg Three were more saved than shielded. Saved for whatever climax or ending Lucas wanted to his triple-trilogy. Now, of course, if could be that they could be saved for a fourth trilogy, but all depend on what the ST will eventually be about. I don't see a point in killing characters - but I don't see a point in saving them for all costs either. Everything depends on the plot and exectution! If focus changes to a new generation, I can see Luke, Han and Leia die in fight rather than hang around until they can move only by repulsor chairs - then again, maybe killing off old characters is a cliché by now, I dunno.

    But when has SW ever shed clichés?

    This is very much how I see it too!
    Last edited by kataja, Feb 16, 2013
  14. Zorkel567 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2010
    star 3
    You never know, if the ST does wipe out the EU, then maybe Denning would mke the Big 3 become the new set of 'Ones." Farther than Father, Son, and Daughter, you could have Luke, Han, and Leia... Admit it, you know Denning would do it ifhe got the chance...
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  15. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Is it sad that I wouldn't be surprised if that happened?
  16. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Wedge doesn't need an author made character shield He makes his own :D

    Agreed. As I've said before, Shadows of Mindor is every bit as tense, and more so due to the quality of writing, than Apocalypse, where some truly seemed to believe that Luke was in danger.
    Last edited by instantdeath, Feb 16, 2013
  17. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    Just because he hasn't died doesn't make him "character shielded"
  18. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    I can't entirely agree. I really felt that Shadows of Mindor, and similar works, are colored by the static effects that afflict them. In Shadows of Mindor, I particularly recall the starfighter combat sequence with Hobbie, and how his injuries, which in other circumstances would be shockingly severe, could only be played for laughs, because we all know he's going to be fine.

    It's not a big deal with the Big Three, since the default assumption has always been that they will survive, but when everyone, even on both sides of the equation (such as in Choices of One) is protected by continuity, then it does matter. It changes a fundamental question of the tension, from 'will they get out of this' to 'how will they get out of this.'

    There's nothing wrong with that, and you can tell great stories that way, but the emphasis has to be put in different places, and some authors are not all that good at it.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  19. hawkeye forever Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Obviously they will have to die at some point, however personally I would prefer that they would go out a similar way to Ackbar and Mothma. They have devoted their lives to protecting the galaxy throughout numerous conflicts, I feel they deserve to leave peacefully. The main reason there are objections to a peaceful death due to old age is because fans don't want to see the big three as old and incapable (want to remember them as youthful and vibrant as seen in the movies). IMO its too cliche to kill them off in a big death where they choose to save others. Try something more unique (although there is an argument for a peaceful death not being unique in its own right). My personal hope is for them to go on a final journey and that's it or they are just slowly phased out.