ST Anakin Skywalker in the New Films

My opinion is the same as this article: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/07/hayden-christensen-star-wars-episode-vii
Meaning I'm really, really hoping it would happen, at least that they would show some "nod" to his existance, but I don't have great hopes.
So far the ST seems to be mostly ass-kissing the OT-purists and shows no signs of even acknowledging the PT, they know "everyone" hates the PT and Anakin and Hayden so, like I said, I have no huge hopes.

 

Obi Wan's entire confrontation with Anakin in RotS was pretty epic from the moment that he stepped out of hiding on Padme's ship till he left Anakin on the bank of that lava river. Dude was pretty heartbroken.

 

In term of performances, I think Ian McDiarmid, Sir Alec Guiness and Frank Oz (CT Yoda, the guy was pupetteering and doing the voice) are by far the greatest of the saga. Ewan is a great actor but he doesn't come close to those three IMO, mostly because of his dialogue and exposition.

 

Totally agree. The one thing TheBBP failed to mention, is that no matter how much you think Ewan managed to deliver a commendable performance out of an inexplicable mess of a script (for which he was rightfully lauded) the actors around him may have well been cardboard cut outs for what it was worth. And the OTT dual then descended into a computer game cut scene. Sorry Ewan.

 

No problem in the least.

We got just as good acting performances in EVERY SINGLE FILM. It's just that you didn't like them as much.

As I said before people seem to combine the actual acting and performance of the material and what is being asked as the same thing.

"HC's acting is bad because he is so whiny!!"

Wrong his acting is right on because he is supposed to be whiny. If you find him so annoying then he's done exactly what he was supposed to do and what the character is. Vader is a whiner. Anakin is Vader. That is a part of the character.

I think as someone else pointed out that this tag of "mature, adult and sophisticated" has been tagged to ESB and has been reinforced over the years. The thing is this idea is that it permeates the entire film when much of that is a tonal thing and much of it really centred on Luke, Vader and Yoda not the rest of the cast.

The thematic weight and acting performance of ROTS is one that I find far stronger because it is around Anakin and Padme and Palpatine and Obi-Wan and Yoda.

 

Mature, adult and sophisticated? Certainly not. Well written dialogue? Solid, believable performances? Yes on both counts. Oscar winning stuff? I don't think so. The burgeoning romance is played and acted perfectly. Luke's journey is played perfectly. When the end comes? you've completely bought into it. Everything fits. And that's because the human, emotional core of the film worked, but wasn't overly heavy. It just had enough.

 

I am a fan of the prequels but one of the things I'm hearing throughout this discussion when it comes to Anakin comes down to this.

Some people hate the prequels and Anakin and Hayden because they didn't get the story, Anakin or Vader they wanted.

Imagine you favored actor for the role of Anakin saying the same dialogue.
Dialogue is part of the story and a lot of people hated it. Okay fair enough. So why actively hate any of the actors, Hayden included because some people didn't like the script, dialogue, character, movie etc. as it was out of their control to change any of it. Some fans have led a decade long plus campaign against Hayden's career because of it. It's time to give it a rest.

No one, nobody, not any actor anywhere in the world would have ever been good enough for this role for some fans.

Why?

Because for some fans, they were never going to get the Vader or story they wanted. It was always going to be this sympathetic portrayal of Anakin becoming Vader as Lucas envisioned in his original backstory. No doubt, if the prequels had one more movie it would have shown a hardened Vader completely taken over by the Dark Side but the prequels ended with only his conversion and submission to the Emperor.

I could be wrong (and wish I were) but I don't think Hayden will be in the new movies. I still think that there could be a chance with Abrams to somewhat redeem the prequels in the minds of the disgruntled fans, if Hayden did come back in some way as Anakin/Vader.

 

Although I'm not a fan of the PT, I certainly don't hate the actors in it. The best actors on the planet would sound like morons reciting some of that dialogue.

If anything, I feel sorry for the actors for trusting George and then getting slapped with that crap. It wasn't all bad, but some parts were truly cringe-worthy.

As far as the story of Vader goes, I didn't really have my own ideas for how it should play out. I perhaps thought it would be a seduction of power that turned him toward the dark side, not the fear of losing his wife. I dunno, being a good guy and then giving in to dark side power just seems so much more tragic to me than what we got in the movies. It's hard to see someone go down the wrong path in life. I guess making into a love story was sort of disappointing to a lot of fans.

My resentment towards Anakin started when George stuck him in ROTJ. That's when I felt the line had been crossed and George had no idea what he was doing anymore.

 

Listen again to the last few conversations Anakin has with Padme. First, just before he leaves to negotiate with the separatists (and kills them). Second, talking to Padme and Obi Wan on the landing platform on Mustafar.
He was self-deluded. He was believing his own lies about being well intentioned but he was nothing more than obsessed with the power to have things his way. It's the most devious and subtle form of seduction to cross the line to evil.

He thought in the end he could obtain the power he needed to overthrow the Emperor and he and Padme (trying to seduce her too) could rule the universe and make it what they wanted it to be even if he had to massacre people to do it. He thought he could turn back from all he had done when he got what he wanted and change everything back. He was truly lost and I found it very tragic.

That got an emotional response from me in the theater. I don't know about anyone else. I thought it was perfectly played out.

 

Jedi-princess-barbie, nice. IMO, you get it, while it seems to me too many don't.

 

Tread carefully on the judgement please. We "get it" we just aren't moved by it like some of you.

 

Well then clearly I'm not talking about you and, honestly, it's not a passive-aggressive shot at anyone who doesn't like the PT or was unsatisfied by the way Anakin's character handled or anything like that. I'm literally referring to the people who say "I don't understand Anakin's turn" or "Anakin turned because (insert reasons which ignore the narrative)." It's an observation, not personal judgment.

 

It's not that difficult to figure out. Maybe some people are a little unsure about it, but whatever. The movie explained pretty clearly why Anakin turned. He was suckered by Palpatine with a lie that Anakin wanted to hear. Then the power overtook him and he went goofy. Intellectually, I understand it all. Emotionally, it left me high and dry. I didn't care for any of the characters in the PT. What I mean by care is that I had no emotional attachment to them. I felt like an outsider watching these movies. Your results may vary.

 

I find many or most people who are critical of the PT here on the JC forums have actual, well thought-out reasons. But most of my time has been spent reading such discussions off-site, and those are often disappointingly obtuse.

 

And this will be the exact reason why a good deal of people will hate the ST and the SW fanbase will become more divided than ever

 

Yes but not you are missing the full point.

"Quention Tarantino" style acting and dialogue from 20 years ago is starting to get cliche if it isn't already. Everything dates and becomes cliche. That is part of the process of how these things work. The forms in art evolve. As I said the OT was not so far out at the time it came out and it was a more "modern" style at the time. Now compare that to the PT which was already using something that was years out of date anyway and as I said Lucas made it even more dated therefore "cliche"

"No, let's just all marvel at the visuals and listen to the music."

Sounds a lot like a movie trilogy from the late 70's and early 80's that I could name. Again you talk about "solid" acting performances but what you mean is performances you like because of the style being employed.

The performances in all the movies are pretty solid throughout but they aren't being asked to do the same kind of performance in each film. The visuals you talk about INCLUDE the performances. They are part of the visuals. I just saw AOTC again and more than ever paid attention to this style. It's there in spades.

People have to realize that the acting style and performances are choices that Lucas made. He always wanted Star Wars to be silent movies. Silent movies do have dialogue from ones I've seen. You can't hear it of course but the actors needed a guide to their performance.

The PT visual style was based on Lucas' desire to outdo the OT in every way but not tell the same story and he did. They are far better silent movies ie no dialogue required just the visuals and audio (music and effects). They are also Star Wars as myth. The history channel Star Wars The Legacy Revealed is very revealing



In that Lucas really wants to tie the entire saga into world myths. This is largely the truth for the PT but far less so for the OT which really was about SF serials, movies (SF, war, westerns) comics and SF books but they don't go into that in this special. The true aspect of the legacy is that Lucas as a visual film-maker was inspired by visual things not simply text books. Myths he was inspired by would have been from seeing Jason and the Argonauts not reading about them first.

As I said the forms in art evolve but that doesn't mean they get left behind but they do get compartmentalized. If you went to a Shakespeare play you would expect certain visuals and a certain dialogue style. If you then went in and Romeo and Juliet was played in 1930's Brooklyn complete with accents but the same dialogue you might get into it or laugh yourself silly. The Maltese Falcon is one of the great dialogue movies of all time. Try the exact same style now and people would be rolling their eyes. It's great in a B&W film from 70 years ago but imagine if you did it now in a SF film?

I use that as an example because obviously AOTC and TMF are not going for the same thing dialogue wise.

Do people really believe that if Lucas had wanted totally modern up to date dialogue and performance in the PT that he wouldn't have written it that way or got someone to do it for him? Of course he would.

That wasn't what he wanted.

The style of ESB is excellent. Of course it has "bad" cliche lines and performances like any of the other films but what works there wouldn't work for the other films the same way.

It'd be wrong to have ANH or TPM use that style and playing ESB or ROTS with the style in those movies would hurt them and be tonally wrong on so many levels.

 

Agreed but I'd add Liam Neeson and Peter Cushing tothe list on the next rung down on the greatness ladder but still above Ewan.

 

That reminds me of something I read a while back. A theorist (I can't remember who) noted it would be impossible to make a Hitchcockian thriller today exceptas a aprody, for those very reasons you outline above.

 

I don't find that blog post to be compelling at all.

How would Anakin's presence legitimize the PT? Shouldn't that trilogy be able to stand on its own? And given the reaction to the HC Force ghost in the newer versions of RotJ, why would anyone think that adding him to Episode VII would be the way to go? It's not like cramming HC in the middle of one of the new movies will make the PT better retroactively.

Moreover, what could Anakin possibly tell Luke? The blog post states that it would be cool to see Anakin and Luke talking, but I don't buy it. Luke is a better Jedi than Anakin ever was. He might not be as powerful in terms of raw ability, but he is a far better person, and passed the tests that Anakin failed until the end.

I just don't see it. We've already gone down the 'sins of the fathers' route. Why do it again a generation removed?

 

Dangers of attachment and the dark side. The closest Luke came to the dark side was with the threat of turning Leia, and the familial love Luke had for her. Anakin's fall was due to the deep romantic love for Padme and the risk of her death. Their circumstances were completely different, so no, Luke did not pass EVERY test his father had faced

 

I absolutely hate all this "It's gonna be the OT again", "What? What's the PT?" when it comes to Ep. VII. I was a teen when the PT was coming out and adored it just like the OT. The PT is Star Wars to me and so is the OT.

 

I just thought of something horrible... what if... WHAT IF THE ST TURNS OUT LIKE STAR WARS?!

 

A lot of people hate the PT and that's fine. A lot of people love it as well and for them it is an important part of the saga and that's fine as well. The issue here is not about the ST resembling either trilogy, it's about the baffling inclusion of Hayden Christensen as Anakin in Return of the Jedi.

Every bit of resistance to the notion of this guy having anything to do with the ST is because of the nature of his involvement in Jedi and how baffling it was. Lucas can make any number of excuses but in the end he wanted to tie both trilogies together anyway he could, making decisions that most people (casual and hardcore fans) think it's not OK at all. Some voice their opinions louder, and an apparent minority is OK with it. I have yet to see people supporting it with enthusiasm. Hell, I've seen a better reception to Jar Jar than to this.

In the end, it doesn't matter what opinion we have of Christensen's performance in the PT, it's about the coherence of his involvement in the OT. If that mess leads to him being involved somehow with the ST, I think backlash is inevitable (and probably deserved).

I'm confident this will not happen. If I was JJ I would stay the hell away from Christensen as possible.

 

I hope ROTJ was Anakin's last appearance in the movie saga itself but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. The Anakin Force Ghost should be the age Anakin/Vader was in ROTJ. No cop out to make him the age he was in ROTS. I sort of want them to give us another version of ROTJ where we see Hayden in his 40's.