[HCSF] The Sifo Dyas debate......why Sifo Dyas is probably Qui Gon Jinn

Furthermore, Obi-Wan would refer to any Jedi Master as "my Master", because they're all his Masters.
I also agree strongly that Dooku just used the name of Sifo-Dyas. I believe he did it to A: protect himself and to B: frame the Jedi without them being able to deny anything, since the Jedi who did it is dead.



Star Wars is confusing to some
Not to me
/LM

 

I used to love this conversation.

 

Really? I hated this coversation. Glad it's over.





LOL, 'cept for you fine folks.

 

Obi-Wan refers to him as "my master" because the person he was talking to him thought Sipho-Dias was his master. Obi-Wan is just going along with this because he wants some imformation.

 

If you remember, back in the Old Republic days, the Jedi changed they're names to sound more Archaic. Qui-Gon's name before that could have been Sifo-Dyas.

But, Dooku seemed surprised about the army. He didn't know about it, I think.

 

He was pretending to be surprised(to fool the other Separatists). Remember, he was the one who recruited Jango to the Kamino job.



Dooku is an illusionist
/LM

 

RIGHT on, lars Muul...

 

I cant look away.

Qui-Gon had no reason to order an army. He wasnt even aware that the TF posed a serious threat until the events of TPM.
We followed him through that whole sequence, and he never ordered an army, nor did he ever mention it, or indicate any need or desire to do so.

(("...an invasion army."))
"This is an odd play for the Trade Federation."

He was surprised at the boldness of the TF because he didnt think they were that aggresive.

Why prepare for battle against someone who you didnt know was threatening you?


Supposedly, BEFORE TPM, there had been peace for centuries.

But one day, some well known, well respected Jedi just got a wild hair and ordered an army, ten years before they were needed, to fight a new army noone (including Qui-Gon) was even aware of when the clone army was created.
But he didnt tell anyone about this possible new enemy, and he used a different name to order the clones, even though the army was for them, the jedi, the good guys.

And oh yeah, now 'Sith Master' Count Dooku ("recruited by Tyranus...) found the template for the clones. (So... he must have been working with Qui-Gon....?)
And now he leads the opposition.




"Curious."
To say the least.


Qui-Gon Jinn is not Sifo-Dyas.

 

That's the best point anyone has ever made in this discussion. Congratulations



Qui-Gon Jinn is Qui-Gon Jinn
/LM

 

Sifo Dyas was a jedi council member that was killed around the same time as Qui-Gon. You use the word "Master" not only from Padawan to Teacher, but from Teacher to jedi Council member whenever you reffer to him/her.

 

I think Captain Typho's theory is mostly solid, but there's one MAJOR point of counter-evidence... Qui-Gon yelling "No, Anakin, no!" while Anakin's murdering the Sand People. I don't think there's nearly enough evidence to think Qui-Gon wasn't fully devoted to using the light side of the force. He used it so well. Remember his last solo fight with Maul. Calm, cool, collected. Not wrathful, like Obi-wan minutes later started being for a little. Since the clone army creation was masterminded by Dooku, and of course, Sidious, there'd be no motive for him to betray the Republic like Dooku was doing. Could Dooku have tricked Qui-Gon? I don't think so. That guy was on top of things. Had he been Anakin's master, things probably would've turned out much different for Anakin.

 

Unless I'm way off on my Star Wars knowledge (I haven't been on this board for about 2 years).. there's also the issue of Qui-Gon not disappearing. There's definately something about that, right? Or has that already been explained

 

This "disappearing" into the Force thing, or perserving your body in the Force, is a new technique... something that will supposedly be discovered and explained in ROTS. So no Jedi before Episode III could be expected to disappear upon death.

 

Hmmm, but still, not "disappearing" is a trait associated with the Sith in all cases as we know (except for Qui-Gon)...

It'll be interesting to find out why though.

 

so silvermark, I guess all of those Jedi that died in the arena of Geonosis are Sith?




Brilliant!

 

You got me there

I'm rusty on my knowledge, forgive me.

 

And that he did erase the files under Sid. The only question is how would he have access. By the time Sid recruits him, he has already left the Order. Now if he has left the Order, wouldn't it be suspicious if he was in the library? And how would be able to erase the files if he was gone?

Perhaps he had an accomplice, namely the librarian Jocasta Nu?

The fact remains, he knows exactly when Qui-Gon died. He wouldn't say "under the impression" if he knew that Sifo-Dyas was Qui-Gon.

OB1 certainly knew when QGJ died, but he wasn't sure exactly when the Clones were ordered. Lama Su himself never said when the order was placed; only that someone calling himself Sifo-Dyas ordered them. OB1 then told Lama Su that Sifo-Dyas was killed almost 10 years ago, to which Lama Su merely replied that Sifo would have been proud of the army that was created.

I don't think Sifo-Dyas was Qui-Gon Jinn. Obi-Wan definitely recognized the name, but not in connection with Qui-Gon, or it would have been a more shocked reaction, IMHO.

I rather thought OB1, Mace and Yoda all wore some pretty stunned expressions when they found out about Sifo and the ordering of the clones. Also, OB1 talked of Sifo to Lama Su as being his master. I don't think he would have done so if Sifo wasn't Qui-gon.

 

Arrowheadpodracer: Why do you and others who oppose the QGJ=Sifo-dyas idea so vehemently always state as your main objection that Qui-gon couldn't have/wouldn't have ordered the clones? No one said he did. No one has stated that Qui-gon/Sifo himself had anything to do with ordering the clones. Why do you keep bringing this up? I ask this last question because I've seen this objection on other threads.
It has been stated numerous times by Captain Typho and others in this thread that Dooku was probably the one who placed the order using Sifo's name. In other words, whoever ordered the clones did so by impersonating Sifo. So what has any of this to do with Sifo-Dyas not being QGJ?

 

I posted the following on another website. This is the my main reason for objecting to the idea that Sifo-Dyas might be a separate character or 'just another Jedi':


I still find it difficult to believe that such an important personage didn't merit any screen time in TPM or that no passing mention was made of him. After all, he was supposedly on the Jedi Council and there were Jedi Council scenes in TPM. Also, since Sifo was supposedly a leading member of the JC, he could have been shown in the JC scenes as being one of the 'Big 3', instead of just Yoda & Mace.

 

Who says Sifo was a leading member of the Jedi Council?

Lama Su. What does he know about the Council? Not a whole lot.

Dooku (or Sifo-Dyas, if he originally placed the order) could have told the Kaminoans anything.

"Greetings. I am Sifo-Dyas, a leading member of the Jedi Council. We urgently desire an army for the Republic, but its existence must be kept secret until we are ready to reveal it."

 

Aw, cheese 'n rice.

Why do you and others who oppose the QGJ=Sifo-dyas idea so vehemently always state as your main objection that Qui-gon couldn't have/wouldn't have ordered the clones? No one said he did. No one has stated that Qui-gon/Sifo himself had anything to do with ordering the clones.
....whoever ordered the clones did so by impersonating Sifo. So what has any of this to do with Sifo-Dyas not being QGJ?

Nothing.

If we're assuming someone used his name.
I dont think everyone in this thread assumed that. I never have. If everybody did know that, great. Then I was just re-stating the obvious. No harm done.


I always thought the real Sifo-Dyas actually ordered the clones... from a certain point of view.
I'm not so sure anymore, but I've decided to just wait and see what happens in E3.

 

Well, as we said before, this question probably won't be addressed in the movie. Lucas let it be explained in Labyrinth of Evil instead.

 

To me, it's simple. Having the knowledge of Episode II in pre-production in my brain, that is.

Sifo-Dyas' original name was Sido-Dyas. But then it was changed because it was too obvious whose name it belied. It would be like Superman naming his secret identity Soop R. Man.

It's possible that GL has decided to change who Sifo-Dyas was, but I'm betting not.

 

Qui-Gon Jinn is not Sifo-Dyas. Why?

Sifo-Dyas was a part of the Jedi Council, Qui-Gon was not. Plain and simple.



Sifo-Dyas is a dead man, probably killed by Tyrannus or Sidious. He never placed any order whatsoever. It was Darth Tyrannus who placed the order, under the guise of Sifo-Dyas.

 

I think Sifo Dyas is Sideous. I think Sifo is his real name.

My guess is we will find out he was a fallen Jedi Master, who was taken by the dark side.

This would tie up lots of loose ends. He ordered the army, converted Dooku, altered the Jedi records.

It will be interesting to see if he gets to fight with a lighsaber, because this will sho h is either an ex Jedi, or we have a continuity error, because in ROTJ he says "ah, the weapon of a Jedi Knight".

If I was to go out on a limb, I'd say that the Jedi expelled or even thought they'd killed him (hence the worried looks on their faces when his name is mentioned), and he is back to wipe them out in good old fashioned revenge.

The palpatine face is simply a dark force disguise.