He could be a powerful ally.

This is a question regarding Dark Side organizational structure and how Luke would have fit in, all couched in the context of the "no more, no less [than two sith]" statement Yoda made in TPM.

What were Vader and Palpatine thinking when Vader initially approached Palpatine about turning Luke? This is the only thing I can think of, and bear with me on this as there are a lot of embedded thought processes here.

Vader thought he could trick Palpatine into thinking he (Palpatine) could trick Vader into thinking they could form a 3-way alliance. Palpatine's intention (in Vader's mind) would have to be to replace Vader, while Vader would have his own reasons (not discussed here).

I can't think what Palpatine must have thought. It seems like he would know that Vader was aware of the 2-Sith limit, so barring a suicidal Vader, I don't see how Palpatine would have been on board with it.

Can anyone offer something better than this weak a$$ explanation?

 

My only conclusion can be that Palpatine was playing dumb, and went along with Vader's game of 3-way dark side-usage.


EDIT: Maybe Palpatine just never tells Anakin of the "2 Sith" rule...

 

I think it was a posturing on both sides. There seems to be a "survival of the fittest" mentality in the sith. They were going to see which one could get Luke. The one that did would kill the other, leaving either the Emporer and Luke or Vader and Luke. It was never either of their intention for there to be the 3 of them. They knew that if Luke turned, it would mean one of their deaths. They were just banking, for different reasons, that they would be the one to control Luke and kill the other.

 

Well, by the time ESB was made, there was no "only two" rule, that came with the PT, but following the topic, I think Jedi_Masterd 201 is rigth, perhaps The Emperor didn't told Anakin the rule.
Perhaps Palpatine saw the future by the time he turned Anakin to the darkside. He then forsaw that Anakin's son will prove to be "a powerfull ally". It would be easier to replace Vader with Luke, by letting Vader think his squeme was headed in the rigth direction. It was a matter of letting Luke destroy Vader and then he could claim him.

 

See, the Rule of Two was created so that the Sith order would be small enough to remain unntoiced. With the rise of the Sith to power, the Emperor could basically have as many Sith servants as he wanted, seeing as how there was no more reason to hide, what with the Sith controlling the galaxy and all.

 

Exactly. Once the Sith didn't need to be so secretive, the Rule of Two became obsolete.

EDIT: Of course, it could also be an indication of the power-hungry, get rid of your competition mentality the Sith are known to exhibit. Vader could have been ready to get out of the Emperor's grip, and Palps may have been sick of Vader.
It's possible.

 

To Dark Lord Rising, you listen.

According to the EU, Palpatine disregarded the Rule after rising to power; and trained a number of elite Dark Jedi like C'Baoths clone, Jerec, etc.

 

Lucas had originally envisioned there being multiple Sith serving under Palpatine during the OT- he changed this when he made up the rule of two in TPM.

Sorry, what's going on int he OT fits in very well with the Rule of Two. There would never have been three siths for any signifcant amount of time had Luke turned. Never. The only time would have been how long it took Vader and Luke to get to the Emperor, so they could kill him. In ESB, when Palpatine and Vader talk about turning Luke, they don't want an army of three. Vader wants to bring his son, to help him kill Palpatine and rule the galaxy. Palpatine wants to turn Luke, and have him and Vader fight, with the winner staying on as his apprentice. They're not saying that to one another, simply because you tell the other person that. Vader isn't going to tell Palpatine he wants to kill him and take over. He's going to play along. They both know what the other is doing though. They just both think they can win.

 

Trust me, Darth Dark Helmet, the Rule of Two would no longer be required of Palpatine to follow once Emperor.

 

It sure would have. The rule of two exists not because of some legalisms established to keep the Sith from making too many waves in the Force when they were laying low but rather because of the very practical problem that more than two Sith can't coexist without killing one another. Force-users become Sith because they want power, and that characteristic lust doesn't just disappear the moment they join the order.

Look at Vader and Palpy in the OT. They both explicitly tell Luke they want him so he can kill the other one. It doesn't matter if they're obeying a written rule or not, since their behaviors dictate the structure the Sith order will take.

 

No, Mara, you're wrong. First of all, the Rule of Two is only described in depth in EU, therefore all other things EU apply to it; and from the EU we know Palpatine took other apprentices.

Despite what many people think, the Phantom Menace novelization clearly describes the reason the Rule of Two was created was to let the Sith continue in secrecy. After becoming Emperor and ridding the galaxy of all enemies of the Order, he clearly could {and did, going by EU} create a New Sith Order.

 

"Always two there are, no more, no less." - Yoda

The two-Sith rule is not EU. It's entirely possible for someone to accept it without accepting any EU at all, but since you mentioned Palpatine training other apprentices in the EU, I'll address that point as well. There is a difference between a Sith lord and a dark-sider. Mara Jade had some rudimentary knowledge of the dark side so she could complete missions for the Emperor, but she was never a Sith, not even after Palpy died and openings were available in the hierarchy (although I wish she had been one). Since the Sith are a specific cult of dark-siders, one doesn't automatically receive that title when they start using the dark side unless they are actually inducted into the order. Did you notice that Yoda accused Dooku of using the dark side, but did not conclude by induction that Dooku was necessarily a Sith?

 

Well Rules are made to be broken
Like others have said the rule of 2 was a creation of Darth Bane during the time of great conflict between Jedi and Sith to keep the Sith alive and in secret. Once the Jedi are all but destroyed(in the films we only see 2 Jedi still alive) there would be no need to be secretive with a rule of 2. So by expanding the Sith again this would allow a great reign of terror by the Sith on the GFFA.

 

Well since I love EU stuff about this Ill jump in. Jerec, C'Boath, etc were Dark Jedi not Sith. There is actually a big difference. Dark Jedi are only Jedi who have fallen to the darkside. A Sith is a darkside user but doesnt neccesarily have to be a Dark Jedi to be a Sith. Dark Jedi are between the Jedi and the Sith on thescale of galatic evilness. Jedi-Dark Jedi- Sith. Dark Jedi while evil are not as powerful as a Sith Lord.

The Sith Order was once a cult of many members. There were great wars between Jedi and Sith. Two of the Wars are chronicled in a comic book series, the Tales of the Jedi. Well I could go on here for hours but just check this site

OT I think both Vader and Sidious knew that at least one of them would die. Vader wanted to kill Sidious to take control and Sidious wanted Luke to kill Vader to turn him to the darkside. Killing your own father in anger shows the darkside has taken over.

 

Yeah I was about to say, I thought that the rule of two would not matter any more for the Sith at that particular time are the most powerful rulers about. atleast till after the death of the Empire and the rise once more of the Jedi Order.

 

The idea of having only 2 Sith at once isn't a rule, it's an insurance policy. A third Dark Lord of the Sith is never accepted not because of a rule that forbids it but because having more than two could mean their downfall. The Emperor knew this...I don't know if Vader did.

 

Palpatine must've told him, if he was willing to take him on as a new pupil. To let him know how things were gonna work.

 

The idea of having only 2 Sith at once isn't a rule, it's an insurance policy.

Yes. Screw all this Palaptine is the emporer crap, if he took on two apprentioces at the same time, they would join together and kill him. Its that simple. Palpatine was trong, but he wouldn't be stronger then two working against him. ALL Sith want power. All of them. During the time of ANH, I will garuntee you that Vader was plotting ways to kill Palpatine and take over his position. He just didn't have an opportunity till Luke came along.