"He couldn't assassinate anyone. It's not in his character." His or yours??

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth_Pazuzu, Nov 26, 2005.

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  1. Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2005
    star 4
    I know that a lot of people who've seen ROTS have picked up on the similarity between Palpatine's claim to Anakin that Count Dooku was "too dangerous to be kept alive" and Mace Windu's insistence that Palpatine was "too dangerous to be left alive."
    Others have pointed out the similarities between the circumstances under which Anakin ultimately turns to the Dark Side (ROTS) and the circumstances under which he turns back to the Light (ROTJ), as well as the way in which Mace fits into this.
    (And, just for the record, I would like to add that I think Mace was justified, albeit barely, in trying to kill Palpatine, or at least he would have been if it hadn't set such a bad example for the already morally destabilized Anakin.)

    But, I have to wonder...How many people remember a certain statement of Mace's from AOTC? When Padme states her belief that Count Dooku was behind her attempted assassination, Mace counters with "You know, milady, Count Dooku used to be a Jedi. He couldn't assassinate anyone. It's not in his character."
    I was just wondering if anybody else had picked up on the irony of Mace making a statement like this and then ending up posthumously tarred with the label of "assassin" himself!
  2. Darth_Sidious- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2005
    star 2
    Yep, I remembered that after watching AOTC yesterday. Not Mace's fault. He just didn't know Dooku had turned to the dark side.
  3. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    i think he was being honest.mace didnt know that dooku had turned and there was no reason to believe that an ex jedi could murder someone unless he had turned(wich mace didnt know at the begining of AOTC)
  4. Cryogenic Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    LOL!

    What a brilliant irony you've found. Really great.

    Of course, in the same film, Mace slices off Jango's head - but that's not really tantamount to assassination.

    A very good find.
  5. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    You know, I had thought about this, but didn't bother mentioning it out of fear that people would think I was reaching for something bad to say about Mace :rolleyes: :)

    Cool thread
  6. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I didn't really read too much into it. Mace didn't know Dooku had turned to the dark side. On the flip side, Palpatine was lying when he told Anakin the Jedi were taking over. Had he not resorted to Force lightening, Mace would have let him live.
  7. AJSkywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 1
    I do not see any irony. Well kinda. But the line fits the movie so it works.
  8. Carnage04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 5
    It's USUALLY not an assassination when you kill someone that is shooting at you.

    Carnage
  9. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    Actually I'd posted that one in the "ironies of Star Wars thread" on the Saga board some months ago - with reference to Mace trying to assassinate the Chancellor. "couldn't assassinate anyone" - anyone's the important term here.
  10. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    I think the real irony is that Mace says "He couldn't assasinate anyone, It's not in his character." ,
    then later Anakin believes him to be an assassin, and it convinces him that this is the true character of all Jedi.

    Did that make sense?
  11. AJSkywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 1
    You said the same thing.
  12. Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2005
    star 4
    "i_do_know"'s interpretation is the correct one!:)
  13. AJSkywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 1
    unless you are being sarcastic it's i_dont_know [face_clown]
  14. Darth Sin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 5
    My problem with that whole scenario is Padme being so positive that Dooku was behind her assassination attempt. What evidence did she have to even think this? Of all the people she should have named, it should have been Nute Gunray who had a real motive for wanting her dead.

    In actuality, she should have been much like Mace, thinking that Count Dooku would not be behind this, in that he was a former Jedi, and obviously she knew the nature and philosophies of the Jedi. Again, what reason did she have to suspect Dooku?? And please do not say she was Force-sensitive.

    Lastly, I did not like them discussing a character's nature that had not yet appeared in the film. We had not even seen his face, nor learned why he even left the Jedi order and become the leader of the Separatist.


    Darth Sin! :cool:
  15. Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2005
    star 4
    Really?:confused:
    Well, he does know far too much for his name to be anything other than a complete misnomer! (And I mean that as a compliment to him, by the way...)
  16. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    lol
    Thankyou Darth_Pazuzu, you're too kind.

    Well, my name was kind of a reference to the fact that I try to answer stuff differently to the majority. So when it comes to the popular consensus on a subject, I don't know :p

    And then there's the fact that I couldn't think of a Jedi or Sith name that wouldn't sound pretentious ;)

    maybe I should change my name to i_kinda_know_a_bit

    doesn't have the same ring, does it?
  17. Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2005
    star 4
    Not really...:p
    Now that you've actually explained it, it certainly makes a little more sense!

    Okay...back on topic!
  18. ObiWanIsTheOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2005
    star 2
    *sigh* Why is it people keep claiming that what Mace was about to do a bad thing? "Hes an assasin! Its not the Jedi way!" Um...he wasn't killing some corrupt offical, a spice smuggler, slave owner. He was killing the Master Sith. Jedi hold no rules with that. When it comes to Sith Lords, they must die. They're too dangerous. Especially Palpatine who was pretty much in control of both the Seperatists and the Republic. Killing a Sith does not equal a bad thing.

    Thus, it is not in a Jedi's character to be an assasin.
  19. Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2005
    star 4
    I would agree with that assessment whole-heartedly, ObiWanIsTheOne, except for the fact that it set a bad example for Anakin. At that point, Anakin's loyalties were hanging dangerously in the balance and he needed a reason to side with the Jedi against the Sith. When Mace says of Palpatine, "He's too dangerous to be left alive!" it's a direct echo of when Palpatine said that Dooku was "too dangerous to be kept alive!" What kind of a moral example does it set when a Sith and a Jedi are saying basically the same thing?! ("The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way...including their quest for greater power!")
    And it's not like Mace never gave Palpatine a chance to surrender. He attempts to arrest him twice (before and after the duel)! It's only when Palpatine starts throwing lightning around that Mace realizes that he can't be taken alive, and then he attempts to strike him down.
    Also, consider that Anakin didn't arrive on the scene until after the duel was over. The first thing he saw was an apparently helpless Palpatine with Mace pointing his saber at him. So it was easy for Anakin to convince himself (after the fact) that Mace was an assassin, and that the Jedi were attempting to take over the Republic. If he actually had been present for the attempted arrest, he might have had a better perspective. (And this, I believe, is why George Lucas re-shot the scene so that Anakin is not present and arrives later.)
    Ultimately, it just wasn't in the cards for Mace to kill Palpatine (or it wasn't the Will of the Force). That was meant to be Anakin's task!
  20. ObiWanIsTheOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2005
    star 2
    I see where you're coming from Darth_Pazuzu, but it still doesn't make what Mace did wrong. I understand that Palpatine was saying the same thing, but Mace or any Jedi for that matter, could not have known that Palpatine was saying the same thing. Not to mention, both said it for different reasons.
    I understand how it looked when Anakin ran into the room. Makes that scene even more tragic too. Although, it may have looked bad, I noticed Anakin had NOTHING to say about the dead Jedi in the room...
  21. Vaeron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2005
    star 1
    It's slightly ironic, in that from Anakin's view he really did seem to be trying to assassinate Palpatine. That and the Jedi really were talking about removing Palpatine from office and taking control of the Senate (the "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi" scene).

    But we know Mace wasn't really trying to assassinate the Chancellor. He went there to arrest him, and still only tried to arrest him even after he killed the other 3 Jedi. It wasn't until Palpatine put on his little light show that Mace decided he'd had enough. Since Palpatine knew Anakin had ratted him, he knew Anakin wouldn't have a problem with him being arrested. But once Mace said he had to kill him, he proved to Anakin more effectively than Palpatine ever could have that the Jedi really were hypocrits trying to take over.

    So yeah, ironic in that people "perceive" Mace as a would-be assassin.

    On the other hand, at the end of Sith, Yoda and Obi-wan really did go out with the intent of being assassins. Wasn't Yoda supposed to be "rejoicing for those who transformed into the Force?" So yeah, Mace wasn't the only one talking out of both sides of his mouth.
  22. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    This is because the dead Jedi were in the other room; he couldn't see them. The initial entry of Mace and posse was in the Chancellor's private office, and that's where Fisto, Kolar and Saesee were killed. Then the fight went down the corridor to the main office. The door to the main office was the one through which Anakin came in.
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