"He has too much of his father in him."

What fascinates me is how much energy, thinking, writing and discussing it takes for us, starwars enthusiast to make these six movies one big story.

If Lucas wanted to change our point of view completely in the prequels let it be interesting at least.
What we get is basically a weaker story, weaker characters, which contradict or ignore totally what had been established in the OT.

If only that "rewriting" was creative ! But it's not. It's rushed and disjointed.

I can't see the point !

 

I think you have a point Stawars 1977-2005.

But he IS making it fit, even if its in the worst possible way.

I.e. Changing to OT to fit the PT. Normally you'd think of it the other way round, but he decided to go the Irish way.

(and I am Irish before anyone starts getting their handbags out)

 

How can you complain about this when you haven't even seen Episode III yet? IMO you don't need any further explanation beyond Anakin leaving to go rescue Obi-wan. But quite simply, Obi-wan and Owen could exchange words when he drops Luke off that would settle everything you are worried about.

Obi-wan: The boy must be protected. From this new Emperor, and... from his father.

Owen: Anakin?

Obi-wan: Anakin is lost to us. Power and vengeance are his only desires now. If he knew about Luke he would find him and subvert him to the Dark Side.

Owen: This never would have happened if you hadn't meddled into his life in the first place. Damned Jedi and your foolish ideals!

 

marky-wan :

Lucas is trying to make it all fit together. It is my opinion however that he concentrates on details more than anything else.
You have detail continuity throughout the saga, but the story itself and the character develoment are totally disjointed.

Lucas didn't know where he was going when he announced he started production of the prequel trilogy back in 1997


RolandOfGilead :

With fans like you, george Lucas shouldn't even bother writing a script !

First, I do not "complain". I give my opinion, I discuss. "Discuss" like in "Discussion" board ... you know ?

We already know TPM and AOTC by heart, so it is not too early to give an opinion on character develoment in the PT, or continuity with the OT, although we still miss a piece of the puzzle.


What Lucas failed to establish in TPM and AOTC, he won't have time to in EpIII. EpIII will focus on the clone wars, coruscant political crisis, Anakin, Padme, OB1 and Palpatine.

The characters and their relationships, motives, origins, should have been established by now. But it was so poorly done that not even a miracle could save the PT now.

Now back to Owen : When I watch ANH now, and I hear Owen mention Anakin's mysterious past, or OB1 say that Owen would have preferred Luke's father not to follow him on his jedi crusade, I do not see the prequels in my head. It's not the same movie. Not the same saga.

With the prequels as they are, the characters and dialogs of ANH are not just seen from a different point of view : they make no sense, have no depth. Owen is not touching. Neither is OB1. And why would they have any good memory of Anakin ? I don't know. But I am sure you'll come up with an imaginary explanation to make it all fit together ...

Owen and OB1 in ANH are telling us a whole different story than the one we're told in TPM and AOTC. It's not just a matter of point of view.
The legendary past mentionned at the beginning of ANH is what gives the saga its epic feel, its mythic stature.

I agree that Lucas had to surprise us, and not just tell the story that we expected him to tell.
But instead of adding depth to the saga, giving it a new meaning, he made it more cartoonish, thinner, dead, lifeless.
There is no artistic vision. No storytelling. No character development. Just one vague, descriptive storyline.

After two movies, I do not know, nor do I love Anakin, the hero of the sw saga !!!! And I am not the only one. I couldn't care less that he becomes Darth Vader. I couldn't care less OB1 ends up like an old hermit. I couldn't care less Owen gets fried.
I couldn't care less Luke redeems his father.

I use to think I loved these characters. I was wrong. I discovered, thanks to the prequels, they are not lovable. They have no believable past, no believable feelings, ... nothing ... human, really. They're not even characters. Just sketches at best. Clichés ...


The PT makes no sense.

In the light of the PT, the OT is soul less.

Good work George.

 

I just hope to see a conversation that coincides with that statement I still believe that at some point Anakin and Padme visit tatooine in Ep3.

 

Right or wrong this is my movie, this is my decision, and this is my creative vision, and if people don't like it, they don't have to see it."
--George Lucas

"The story hasn't changed. It's a story George set out to tell when he made Episode IV all those years ago, and now he's just telling it."
--Ian McDiarmid

 

Interesting.

 

Finally! Someone who has really dug into the guts of why Obiwan does NOT deliver Luke to Tatooine.

I agree 100% that Anakin SOMEHOW gets Luke to Tatooine. Via pregnant Padme or after the birth, he takes Luke there to hide him from Obiwan. To this day I'm not convinced that Obiwan takes Luke to the lars' homestead. And there are alot of one dimentional people out there that for some reason are following rank and file on a rumor that Obiwan drops Luke off.
There has never ever been any statement, anywhere by anyone in the Lucas film hiarchy, and most improtantly, George Lucas himself that has said that Obiwan is the delivery guy.

Story wise, it makes no sense whatsoever for Obiwan to go drop off Luke to someone he's never met. Just because Anakin knew they were good people, doesn't automatically give Obiwan good vibes. And to track those good vibes all the way to the Lars homestead? Remember that Obiwan was on Tatooine in TPM no where near Mos Eisley.


And most of all, Ewan McGregor was not in Tunisia during filming of AOTC (at any time) so when GL said on the DVD that he was shooting a SCENE ( not background shots) for Episode 3. He SAID he was doing so he would not have to to go back to Tunisia just for a quick 3 minute scene.

Remeber when Luke first mentions the name obiwan kenobi at the table with owen and beru?
Luke: "I came across an old recording with that R2 unit when i was cleaning him. It said he was the property of an Obiwan kenobi."

At that moment Owen and Beru share a look of " Ohhh ****."

Then Owen quickly dismiss the notion that old ben could be Obiwan.

I believe that Obiwan FINDS out where Luke is and escapes as a jedi Fugitive and hides on tatooine.

Keep this discussion going! I'm sure we can analyze the key lines of ANH and peice together the missing links.

Remember, George Lucas and Rick McCullum said that the ep3 ties into ANH seemlessly.
Obiwan delivering Luke to Tatooine would not br seemlessly. It would require a whole scene explaining way too much and would take up to much screen time.

 

Anakin never returns to Tattooine.

 

"There has never ever been any statement, anywhere by anyone in the Lucas film hiarchy, and most improtantly, George Lucas himself that has said that Obiwan is the delivery guy."

From the OS Databank:

"Obi-Wan was instrumental in hiding Anakin's offspring, so that neither the Dark Lord, nor his master, the Emperor Palpatine, knew of their whereabouts. He took the young boy, Luke, to live with Owen and Beru Lars, moisture farmers on Tatooine."

 

Where exactly would that quote be in the databanks of the OS ? Can you provide a link?

I'm VERY skeptical of that.

Use your common sense. Obi wan has YET to meet the Lars'. And since padme & Anakin's marriage is a secret how would obiwan know? That means Episode 3 would have to dedicate a scene or several scenes to set the whole thing up between Obiwan and the Lars'.
Have to because the movies must be seemless as STATED by RM.

Now it could be that Anakin and Padme use the lars homestead as a rendevous point. Maybe a summer home? Ha ha.

But seriously, I can see Padme & Anakin staying there on occassion, maybe as a backstory scene. The scene may be very simple, he and she talking about events and all. But it would set the tone that they have been hanging out there when they did want others to know.

 

I believe that the twins are born on Tatooine that explains it all.Which is why I started this post.Obi-wan is there at the birth along with Beru and Owen who help with the birth.And Padme could be buried there also.

 

"Where exactly would that quote be in the databanks of the OS ? Can you provide a link?"

Here you go: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/obiwankenobi/index.html

 

Can we be sure that the 3 min. scene on Tatooine is directly related to Luke being delivered to the Lars'? It is possible that Obi-Wan visits the Lars' sometime before his showdown with Anakin in an attempt to find out what really happened in AOTC because he thinks he can bring Anakin back from the darkside and what happened with Anakin/Shimi may give him greater insight into Anakin's psychosis. The root of Owen's attitude in ANH and the decision to send Luke to live there could easily be demonstrated in a short conversation between Owen and Obi-Wan. Luke's destination could simply be alluded to later on.

 

It's simple. Obi-wan knows that Anakin was on Tatooine, when he contacted him to relay his message to Courscant. Anakin and Padme tell him about the family that Anakin now has there. They didn't tell him how Padme died or about the Tusken Slaughter. Obi-wan takes Luke to them, because it's safer than staying on Naboo. Plus, they're family to Luke.


At the beginning of the film Anakin and Obi-Wan are still good friends and we will see they have grown even closer since battling in the clone wars together. But Anakin has been building another friendship too... -PH

Obi-Wan and Padme are close friends in Ep3. -PH


Ergo, they're more like our heroes in the OT. They're friends and are getting along pretty well. Obi-wan either knows on his own where to go, or Padme directs him there and he trusts her judgement.

 

Darth Sinister,

your GL and Mc Diarmid quotes make me laugh.

The prequels tell the story Lucas has always had in mind ? Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

"If you don't like it, don't see it"

Well. that's interesting coming from a mod of a *discussion* (what ?????) board.

Do not discuss GL's work. Worship it.

Amen.

 

Obviously Owen and Beru are in Ep3 for a reason!

 

Darth Sinister,

your GL and Mc Diarmid quotes make me laugh.

The prequels tell the story Lucas has always had in mind ? Yeah. Sure. Whatever.


The basic storyline is the same as it was years before. It's changed some and evolved as time has passed, but it's the same story as before. An evil tyrant takes control of the galaxy, and nearly wipes out the only hope of stopping him. A one great and nobel Jedi who became one of the most evil men in the galaxy, is saved by his son, whose only desire is to become a Jedi like his father. The plot is the same, only the details are being fleshed out now.

"If you don't like it, don't see it"

Well. that's interesting coming from a mod of a *discussion* (what ?????) board.


I quoted Lucas as many people think Lucas is insane and has no idea of what he's doing. I simple offered up Lucas' response on the issue. Not mine, though they do share a similarity.

 

Sinister,

your second quote was there to offer GL's point of view not yours. Excuse my somewhat agressive reaction.

About the story always being the same, I don't see things like you do.
You're right that it's basically the same storyline, rise and fall of Anakin, fall of the republic ... but that's really vague.
Anyone who's watched the OT once could tell you that.

Lucas is often using the "it's always the same story" thing to justify JarJar, bad acting, characterizations, prequel script writing ... anything.

Whenever someone criticizes Lucas' prequels he just says : "you can't criticize, it's the story".

I know that's not necessarily what *you* meant.

But Lucas, and many of his defenders, just mean it. With all due respect, it's the stupidest argument imaginable.
Lucas, like *any* other artist, is not above criticism.


Plus the problem is not the story itself. It has a great potential, most people will admit it.
The problem many fans, critics and movie goers have with the prequels is the way Lucas tells his story.
He keeps lessening its impact. I think the 6 movies saga could have been more powerful.

That's just an opinion of course.

 

yeah, but I would bet good money that you will STILL go and see episode III and buy all 6 movies once they are available.



just friendly banter, not an attack

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$That's what motivates King George this time around not the purity of the story.

 

Darth Tarantino,

of course I'll see EpIII and buy the DVD set !

I grew up with starwars. Even if I don't like the PT too much, EpIII is still the movie I've been waiting to see for 20+years !!!!
Believe me, even if there's only one good scene in it, one minute worth watching, I'll enjoy that !

My dispointment with Lucas' $artistic$ vision doesn't stop me from enjoying the few good moments left in the prequels.

I wouldn't post here if I didnt care at all ...

DarthVain,
you're right. What keeps surprising me is how obvious Lucas' greed is. I just can't believe it.

 

Seems like he stopped being original and wants the PT to resemble whatever movies are blockbusters or popular right now.But what gets me the most is with the PT he managed to turn Star Wars into Star Trek!

 

Sinister,

your second quote was there to offer GL's point of view not yours. Excuse my somewhat agressive reaction.

Ok

About the story always being the same, I don't see things like you do.
You're right that it's basically the same storyline, rise and fall of Anakin, fall of the republic ... but that's really vague.
Anyone who's watched the OT once could tell you that.

Lucas is often using the "it's always the same story" thing to justify JarJar, bad acting, characterizations, prequel script writing ... anything.

That's personal opinion if you don't like those things. There was nothing wrong with Jar Jar, other than fans who can't stand him or accuse racial undertones. The script writing is the same as before.

Whenever someone criticizes Lucas' prequels he just says : "you can't criticize, it's the story".

I know that's not necessarily what *you* meant.

But Lucas, and many of his defenders, just mean it. With all due respect, it's the stupidest argument imaginable.
Lucas, like *any* other artist, is not above criticism.


Never said that he wasn't.

Plus the problem is not the story itself. It has a great potential, most people will admit it.
The problem many fans, critics and movie goers have with the prequels is the way Lucas tells his story.
He keeps lessening its impact. I think the 6 movies saga could have been more powerful.

That's just an opinion of course.


The essential problem with fans is that they have a clear cut idea of what they think the films should be. Always have. It's the same with a number of other films. Or books. Or television shows. I've never had problems with the films, so it's surprising when people latch on to certain things, but forget the criticism from times past. The critics have always had issues with each film, even the classic ESB film. Lucas' is guilty of not following the normal storytelling style. Even before Lucas started Star Wars, he was considered by his fellow students to be a bit of a maverick. It carried over to when he did THX-1138 and American Graffitti. Many were disturbed by what he started with Star Wars in 1977 and the fact that his "big box office blockbuster" has become the standard ever since, critics will blame him for the change in Hollywood's standards & practices.

No, he's not above reproach. But my feelings are the same regarding any film that is good or bad, it doesn't matter what you say. Everyone has a different idea or vision of what something should be. But not everyone is right or wrong.

 

I hope GL has enough thread to sew up all of the plot holes he left open for Episode 3!