:/ Hear me out.

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Indecent, Sep 11, 2002.

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  1. Indecent Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2002
    star 1
    "It is only when you have hit rock bottom...[/i] - Tyler Durden

    I know for a fact, that many people will jump the gun here. I know some people will holler at the top of thier virtual lungs, screaming 'DRAMA!'. I know some may consider this flaming. But hear me out...

    In the recent week, we have witnessed what could very well be one of the most public clashe's between the Administration and the posters. Another thread.... yes. Why? Because i'm going off on a tangeant here, and I prefer not to derail another topic with my own agenda. I owe that much to the other topics originator. My agenda, to answer the question most likely forming on your lips, is that of the administrations problem. We have reached an impass. And to be horribly honest, I think its time you guys had a shake up... a reform.

    Its been most recently highlighted by Lord Maully Malls incident. But lets be honest...we cannot focus the whole blame on one person. He is the more visible, and hence most obvious target of the failings that are appearing. Other moderators have commited similar crimes that have went unnoticed. It is high time the moderators acted much more closely with the general populace on these matters. It has cause to much paranoia and bitterness as it is.

    The ordinary posters must be giving more of an input than to feel like sheep, being mindlessly herding towards one descision, not thier own, but thrust on them. This is a community, and as such, that is how it must survive. And as a community, the administration must try and keep in closer contact with those it moderates, because a distance forms between the two generally, and this distance is often a wedge that drives any common ground away. No longer can we sit idly by and watch this place crumble, as the administration tries to keep a brave face. We know you are fallible, we accept that you are fallible, but lies and coverups lead minds to believe that conspiracies are in place, that plots are being formed.

    The administration needs a kick in the rear. The under the table politics need to go. Now. get this community in gear. Work
    together[/b]. bring back the greatness, instead of squabbling and in fighting. And a lot of that goes to the posters to. Both sides. The anit admins, and the admin supporters. We need to work together, this board needs a shake up, and we all need to regain trust in each other.
  2. Jobo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 5
    Eh, we've had worse conflicts. This is no biggie. Nice post, though.
    _jOBO
  3. citizen-tom Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    I was expecting Wattowatta to make a post like this :p.

    Anyways, I agree with some of that post. Anyways, I think the administrators need to stop being a government and start being regular members of a forum just here to keep the peace. :)

    EDIT--Fix up your code.

    Veers--For someone who's been here two years you seem to have trouble teeling a sock :p just kidding.
  4. MaxVeers TFN FanFilms Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    For someone who's only been here four days, you sure know a lot. :p :p
  5. AL Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    [image=http://www.dannyandkim.com/images/sock-puppet1.gif]
  6. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Many members and mods alike are willing to set their differences aside and would be more than happy to meet each other halfway, but the problem is that they rarely occur at the same time.

    Many of the elite members and moderators alike think of themselves as the microcosm of the JC, and the trust between the two groups (Administration and membership as a whole) has been only wearing more thin as time progresses. The members get the impression that decisions are made for them while the mods would chide us, the membership, for not throwing in our two cents.

    No, this board doesn't function as a democracy. But the members do have representation in the AC. While it hasn't been working as well as either side has hoped, it does help keep what ties the moderators and JC members have remaining intact.

    Many of the moderators I know are hard-working, honest people who have nothing but the best of intentions for the board. I'm talking about people like NathanDahlin, DarthSapient, and KnightWriter. They'll take the time to listen to the "little people" and always carry a professional attitude about them. I know I can place my trust into these people because they've proven that they're all for the betterment of this community. They're not Supermen, but they do whatever they can to the best of their abilities.

    GO 'CLONES!


  7. Just_A_Slacker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 4
    [SARCASM]
    The system is perfect. It never makes a mistake.
    [/SARCASM]
  8. Night4554 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    I agree with you, the adminitration needs a kick in the rear. I peronsally think a group or groups of people of completely different backgrounds: oldbies, midbies, newbies, even a mod here or there; should get together in a 2 or 3 hour long chat and duscuss what needs to be done and how to improve, and then submit that course of action to the administration.

    ¤Night
  9. AL Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I knew the day I made up the phrase midbie it would come back and bite me in the arse and get used in a serious context.

    This happens every single year, at least once, mostly every six months or so. In fact, I seem to remember Padme Bra's promotion to a mod came out of such a dispute where he spearheaded a movement against the admins: I am sure IronParrot, Vertical and Epic were involved in one way or another.

    Whatever we come up with, the same thing will happen again and again and again. Being respectful to others and using common sense in every sense is the only way to have a healthy board; tolerance is the key, while respecting the boundaries of others. The only reason we will make an issue out of this is because some people are bored at work or at home. This is not a great issue that needs a Yalta Conference like gathering. Listen to what Aretha Franklin once had to say and Bob's your uncle: it's a nice board.
  10. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    Sounds good to me Night.
  11. eclipseSD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    So we would have a JC Summit?
  12. citizen-tom Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    I have visited many other highly trafficed boards that have much much better administrator>member relationships. One difference that I see is that I see the JC mods as a government. I see the mods a the other boards as people who post intelligently, and are there to just help out deleting the common troll/spammer and settling any small disputes as a voice of reason. I also am starting to think I and other users reacted a small bit too harshly to the LMM situation. We here all seem to be very politically informed and politically driven people. I think the administration needs to stop using the JC-Modsquad to play out their dreams of political authourity and the Regs need to stop calling out impeachement and we all need to stop bickering over policy. Lets stop playing politics and go talk about Star Wars.
  13. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    There needs to be some major changes around the place. The current administration, I feel, are misguided. There have been a number of bad moves by the administration. The membership is losing faith in different ways, for different reasons.

    The members get the impression that decisions are made for them while the mods would chide us, the membership, for not throwing in our two cents.

    I couldnt agree more. Even with this JCC deal...how many mods discuss with us? Not many at all. Hell, after my ranting and raving, I had an administrator tell me that I should actually get in there and be a part of the discussion.

    I thought I already was in there and discussing? Most anyone in those discussions would tell you that I have been discussing.

    The fact is that the administration (on the whole...there are a few exceptions) are losing touch with the membership. They feel that their colours means that they no longer need to spend time with the peons. Policy discussion doesnt require interaction with regular members until the AC stage.

    Somethings gotta give.
  14. AL Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    This might not be the case with many of the people who have posted and who are doubtless to post in the following plethora of pages but I always get the feeling that most of the people who bring up such stuff as this essentially want to become moderators/managers themselves.

    Their attempts are such thinly veiled that if they were women in a Muslim fundamentalist society, they would be stoned in the town square.
  15. Just_A_Slacker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 4
    I think it's pretty telling that neither Natah or PadmeBra have shown their faces lately. One would think they heard the natives were restless and would have shown up, if for no other reason than to tell us they would look into things.
  16. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    Let me take this chance to say that if anyone has something to discuss or wants to be heard, simply PM me personally. I strongly dislike every admin being lumped into one faceless "administration," when in fact the administration is made up of individual people.

    I want to do my part to help, but I can only do that for myself if people want to drop the hostility and animosity. It's easy to maintain hard feelings and grudges, but it's hard to let go of that and see a person you've long disliked in a more positive light.
  17. Just_A_Slacker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 4
    I strongly dislike every admin being lumped into one faceless "administration," when in fact the administration is made up of individual people.

    Well when it is the system that is at fault, all who enforce the system are lumped together. Don't like it? Too bad.
  18. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 9
    It shouldn't be that way. It doesn't need to be that way, and the responsibility lies with each person who chooses to do that. Don't shift responsibility to others.

    If you or anyone chooses to see the administration as a faceless entity instead of individuals, that's your choice and your choice alone.

  19. citizen-tom Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    It shouldn't be that way. It doesn't need to be that way

    Stop there and you have pretty muched said what a lot of people feel about how the administration is run.
  20. AL Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    There are very clear lines of discipline that are avaiable to every single member on the boards and these apply to mods and managers too.

    Why do people get so uptight if a moderator bitchslaps them for no reason in particular? Surely, as adults, they have both the intellectual capability and the sense of decorum needed to handle such an issue as efficiently, effectively and diplomatically as possible. Any member (or mod) who cannot do such a thing should not look at others for faults as such glaring shortcomings lie with themselves in the first place.

    Treat people with the respect and tolerance they deserve.

    Try not to offend people but also have a sense of humour about things: not every slight comment or sarcastic remark is a flame.

    Don't swear or distribute illegal material.

    Obey the certain communal rules on particular boards; i.e. don't post the first line of Vader in Episode III in the NSA forum.

    It is this simple. Why are people making such a huge issue out of it?

    I don't want to patronise you, but I believe this will come across as just that. I have been here much longer than most of you and this kind of discussion is nothing new. There has not been a marked increase in supposed rifts between members and mods: it has always been there, either in reality or in people's heads.

    Chill Out.
  21. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    Outside of the LMM crisis, what are some of the gripes against the administration? Let's hear them in this thread.
  22. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    I agree, Carter. Guys, if you want us to take you seriously, you need to give us examples, not blanket statements. I see that in the first post, the administration as a whole is accused of "lies and coverups". WHEN???? When have we ever covered anything up? I'd love to go through this point by point with any of you, but none of us can respond intelligently if we don't know what we're being charged with.


    And as for us being a government, I don't think any of us sees ourselves that way. Hey, we're just volunteers trying to do the job that we were promoted for. If you see us doing something wrong, tell us. If you think something can be done better, tell us. Don't just start accusing us of furthering our own non-existant agendas. *What* agendas? This is an on-line message board, for goodness sakes!
  23. Night4554 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    "I think it's pretty telling that neither Natah or PadmeBra have shown their faces lately"

    I can't speak for PadmeBra, but let me post this I got from Nate a day ago or so regarding response times from admins:

    If I haven't responded within 24 hours, it's likely that I'm busy in RL that week and another admin should probably help. Incidentally, that's exactly why I didn't get your PM until now. We were hosting a Russian missionary at our house this weekend, I've been working, and I'm going to get my Driver's License on September 11th.

    And if anyone is interested in such a chat that I outlined in my first post, drop me a pm. My schedule can be hectic (and is of late) but I can find time sometime....

    ¤Night

  24. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    Let me take this chance to say that if anyone has something to discuss or wants to be heard, simply PM me personally. I strongly dislike every admin being lumped into one faceless "administration," when in fact the administration is made up of individual people.

    I want to do my part to help, but I can only do that for myself if people want to drop the hostility and animosity. It's easy to maintain hard feelings and grudges, but it's hard to let go of that and see a person you've long disliked in a more positive light.


    I know it's not difficult to tell my attitude's rather sour towards the JC Administration. But gross generalizations about either side certainly don't help the cause. I might say that the Administration is corrupt, but I don't mean that just because you're a part of the Mod Squad, you're automatically corrupt.

    Like I've said before, there's a lot of motivated souls in the Mod Squad. In fact, I'm pretty sure that most of them are at least decent. But unfortunately, just like in real life, the minority gives the majority a bad name. Why? Because the baddies are the ones people hear about or see (not that they'd want to), not the honest, cut-from-a-bolt-of-denim-cloth types.

    People would start thinking "If Mod So-and-so did this, then the rest of them must be real pieces of work!" which, of course, is pure bogus. One might wonder why such a person was even promoted. Well, they sure looked good on paper, but look at how they turned out! The mods didn't know. The members didn't know. It's a risk. A risk.

    The KnightWriters and NathanDahlins of the Mod Squad don't deserve these drivel missiles aimed at them. They're often taking the blunt of this crap. They need the members' approval and trust instead. I, for one, can easily give them both. I can't do the same for some of the other moderators, but as long as I can depend on someone, that's all I need.

    Which brings me to this problem: Part of the distrust between the two groups is due to ignorance. Neither side has taken great strides to know each other better. The AC and Mod Squad updates may be stepping stones to a final mutual agreement, but more is needed.

    The mods need to ask themselves, "What is my purpose? What can I do to become a better mod?" If they can't answer that themselves, they're more than welcome to ask here. In Communications. The members will tell them precisely what they expect of them. If they can't handle it, then they're not fit to be a mod. The mods are here for the members, not for themselves. They should be able to both maintain order and to help out.

    The members need to ask themselves, "What can I do to make this board better?" If they can't answer that themselves, they're more than welcome to ask any moderator. The mods should give them some suggestions on how to be a better poster and what they should and shouldn't do when trying to help maintain order.

    Maybe those suggestions are too Utopian, but any improvement in the Administration/member relations is better than nothing.

    GO 'CLONES!
  25. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6

    I peronsally think a group or groups of people of completely different backgrounds: oldbies, midbies, newbies, even a mod here or there; should get together in a 2 or 3 hour long chat and duscuss what needs to be done and how to improve, and then submit that course of action to the administration.

    Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't the AC be doing that?

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