:/ Hear me out.

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Indecent, Sep 11, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "It shouldn't be that way."

    Of course it shouldn't. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that it should. However, since decisions are handed down as being from the Administration, and since we are almost always kept from knowing who feels what on each subject that comes up, there's little choice. If the administration acts as a collective, it's going to be treated as such, fair or not.

    Amazing.
  2. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    Well, Firstly I said chat, real time, AC uses a forum

    Secondly, you mods are looking over their shoulders. They know who said what when. This would be more anonymous (assuming no mod was in there) and the plan be submitted as a whole of all the people.

    Yes, the AC could be doing that, but I'm not an AC memeber and most aren't and perhaps we'd like to do that as well.

    ¤Night
  3. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I seem to have missed this all too blatant civil strife that seems to be plaguing the boards. Where exactly has there been a great drama to incite such sanctimonius reflection from members and mods alike?

    Apart from the LMM issue, where I believe people are treating him way too harshly and should return as a mod or at least a VIP, I have not seen anything to warrant this overhaul of ponderousness. Things are going fine: drama exists on messge boards and thanks to our being geeks, and Star Wars geeks at that, drama is even higher than it is at other boards. It always has been though and it is not even a distraction in the way 99% of the people enjoy themselves here. It is always the same discussions, held by the same groups of people over the same issues.

    It's pointless; so, so pointless.

  4. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    Yes, it's pointless, but if people choose to waste their time doing something, who are you to say they have no right to waste their time as they please?

    ¤Night
  5. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Every decision made and every policy implemented by the administration is done so in the belief that it will improve these boards. That's not to say poor decisions never get ratified. They do. But as you will have seen since the political sig incident, big steps have been taken to prevent a reoccurence.

    I get the feeling, when I hear the words "corruption" and "agendas" that there is a belief that decisions made in the modsquad are done so for the benefit of the administration and not the general members.

    We are all volunteers on a messageboard. What pray tell could possibly be done by the moderators that is "corrupt" or to fulfil an agenda?

    We don't get money. We don't actually get "power" of any real-world description. The further up the ladder we climb the more (unpaid) work we give to ourselves.

    What the administration work towards is making this board an enjoyable experience for as many people as possible. And for many (dare I say most) people it must be being run reasonably well, or else people would find alternative hangouts on the web.

    I'm not saying we're perfect and above improvement by any means, but by-and-large this place ticks over well, has a lot of returning visitors and the administration have nothing to gain by being corrupt or whatever.

    Again, even though it doesn't always work out that way practically, the impetus for every decision made in the modsquad is to improve this messageboard.


  6. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    I have to agree with JP-30. There is no corrupt agenda within the administration. We do a thankless job to make the JC an enjoyable experience for everyone. However, in this effort, it is not possible to appease the desires of every individual. We try to make decisions based on how it would affect the collective good of the JC.

    That is the agenda of the administration.
  7. DarthDarkDart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2000
    star 1
    "The impetus for every decision made in the modsquad is to improve this messageboard."

    I don't doubt that's true. However, some of those who have posted in this thread are giving good suggestions which do not deserve to be dismissed so quickly for how you could do more to improve this messageboard.
  8. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    from now on when i see the name AL i will think "comic genius"

    anyway, part of the fun about these boards is seeing reds under the beds......and plots from on high......i for one know that a certain Auckland moderator has ties with Terry and the Gunrunners.......and that both scares and excites me.......if things were peaceful and we all knew each other's hidden agendas this place would be a ghost town
  9. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Terry Teo, eh?

    Anyway;
    However, some of those who have posted in this thread are giving good suggestions which do not deserve to be dismissed so quickly for how you could do more to improve this messageboard.

    Could you be so kind as to show me exactly where a good idea on improving this messageboard raised in this thread has been quickly dismissed by a member of the moderating team?
  10. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    Look, all this strife starts from one thing;

    Lack of communication!

    To me it seems as if the mods make their rulings and leave. Only a hand few of mods come in and explain their decisions. The rest seem not to care to explain themselves, their opinions. I remember when mods would come into Comms and explain themselves on certain decisions. It doesn't seem to be that way anymore. It's "wait for the ModSquad update." or "the decision was unanimous."

    So then, we're left to ourselves to feed into the drama. And I know this is petty, I'm watching a documentary on 9-11 right now, but to us these boards are an escape. We take pride in these boards, wew love them. And if we feel the people on top don't feel the same as us, we're gonna be mad. (Note I said "feel", not "knoww")
  11. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    I think "dismissed" should be replaced with "not furthered in this thread."

    The Administration has many good points about it. I can probably go on about that, jumping up and down excitedly, exclaiming "Their response time is incredible!" or what-not.

    Maybe I was a little liberal with the word "corrupt". Maybe "egotistical" is a better word. Some of the mods simply let those colors and that darn ban button get to their head, as we all know a good example which can be found on the front page of the Communications forum, but I don't want to go there, not here, not now.

    I cannot provide a good example of admin corruption, but I'll tread a little more carefully and say that some of the moderators' attitudes and actions are at times questionable in the past. And I won't be pointing fingers, unless you really think I should.

    I still think that moderator/member action is pathetic. I see very few moderators interacting with the members in the YJCC forum. It's not so bad in NSA, but I think that a dedicated mod should at least spend some time with the regulars in their particular forums. Back in UBB, the mods and members generally got along great and thought nothing of it when they interacted. Now I often sense fear or resentment. Sad, really.

    GO 'CLONES!
  12. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    It's "wait for the ModSquad update." or "the decision was unanimous."

    But things ARE explained in the modsquad update, and mods discuss all aspects of things in there. We can't all be online all the time, it's good to know that on a set day every week the update is coming through and we can try harder to be online to partake in the ensuing discussion.

    As for "the decision was unanimous."; an obvious reference to the political sig fiasco, which resulted in HUGE amounts of discussion, Vert stepping in, the policy being suspended and an entirely new way of ratifying ALL policy proposals in conjunction with the AC. It's not like the policy was implemented, and no further discussion took place.

    While communication can always be improved, I believe good effort is made in this forum between the administration and members. It's not often a topic goes unchecked or is ignored by the mods, in this place.

  13. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    I still think that moderator/member action is pathetic. I see very few moderators interacting with the members in the YJCC forum. It's not so bad in NSA, but I think that a dedicated mod should at least spend some time with the regulars in their particular forums.

    You mention just two forums, one where you don't feel the Mods are "in amongst" the regulars, contributing to threads, and one where they are.

    How many boards are there here? Two-hundred and something.

    To level that accusation as a fault of administration, the least you could do is look around some more boards & check the recent posts of the moderators for those boards and cite your findings.

    I see by your recent posts you spend almost all your time in YJCC and Comms, with occasional forays into 3NSA, Games & the Senate.

    What I see is an issue you have with YJCC and its moderators. And as you know much is being done to discuss the suggested improvements to that forum at present.

    Back in UBB, the mods and members generally got along great and thought nothing of it when they interacted. Now I often sense fear or resentment. Sad, really.

    Fear and resentment. Of who? Where?

    Regulars fearing mods when they post? Regulars resenting mods when they post? Mods fearing regulars when they post? Mods resenting regulars when they post?

    I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say in that last paragrah.
  14. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    No one is asking that the mods be online at all times, but there's some mods who just won't post in Comms at all.

    When something happens on a Thurs/Fri and it's "wait for MS update", fine. But then, don't get mad when people get all ancy and drama-filled for the wait.
  15. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    Comms is like any other forum in that there are mods assigned to it. We're the ones you'll find posting the most in here. Other mods may not have anything to do with Comms and so only come in when there's an issue directly related to their forum.
  16. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    What I see is an issue you have with YJCC and its moderators. And as you know much is being done to discuss the suggested improvements to that forum at present.

    But why cant we get the JCC mods to discuss things with us, JP? There have been numerous JCC threads, and scant mod input. That little mod input that there is mostly comes from non-JCC mods. The only JCC mods that have had anything to say are Liz, Griff, and KnightWriter (and the last two are only part time JCC mod).

    Why do the mods think that its fair to not talk to us?
  17. KitFist0 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    I still think that moderator/member action is pathetic. I see very few moderators interacting with the members in the YJCC forum. It's not so bad in NSA, but I think that a dedicated mod should at least spend some time with the regulars in their particular forums.

    You mention just two forums, one where you don't feel the Mods are "in amongst" the regulars, contributing to threads, and one where they are.


    Check out the Montreal FF Boards Uilmutiez is one of us ;)
  18. MrEmh Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 2
    "this board needs a shake up,"

    No, it needs a shake down of all the trouble users, slacking mods and feeble staff members.

    "and we all need to regain trust in each other."

    Trust must come with respect and I think working to gain the latter will give you the former. What can you do to help bring more respect to the boards?

  19. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    Comms is like any other forum in that there are mods assigned to it. We're the ones you'll find posting the most in here. Other mods may not have anything to do with Comms and so only come in when there's an issue directly related to their forum.

    But Comms isn't like 3SA or Lit or even JCC. We discuss numerous forum wide policies here. So you're telling me that the mods not assigned to Comms won't post here becuase it's no their forum?

    Even if it isn't their forum, the mods still should have an opinion on some matters. For example, GriffZ isn't a JCC mod. Does he got there often? Yes, but he's still a 3SA and AOTC mod. But I still see his opinion on the JCC matter. Same with Sapient.

    And one more question; what's up with Bra? I haven't seen him post here in a while. I know he said he was going to ba online less, but that was before he got promoted to admin. Is he still gonna be online less? Does he just not post in Comms anymore?
  20. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    So you're telling me that the mods not assigned to Comms won't post here becuase it's no their forum?

    no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that they might not post in every thread or be as visible as the mods who's primary or secondary forum is Comms. (see the listing for a listing of these mods; I don't keep a listing in my head)
  21. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Yodave27;
    No one is asking that the mods be online at all times, but there's some mods who just won't post in Comms at all.

    Some mods choose to simply moderate their assigned forums. Some like to be involved in more than that and will participate here actively.

    My forum is my prime concern. If a comms thread springs up about the games forum, you bet I'll be here discussing the issue.

    For other threads, such as this one, I'll only participate if I feel I have something to contribute and it interests me AND I have enough time to stick around and discuss reaction to what I post.

    You should not expect all moderators to partake in comms. It's not compulsory - and many mods are turned off from contributing here by the drama-queens. They just don't have the energy to deal with the same old calls for lynching over what they perceive to be trivial issues.

    There are times when I won't look in here for a week or so, simply because my time is at a premium and I concentrate my efforts on my assigned forum.

    Dagsy;
    But why cant we get the JCC mods to discuss things with us, JP?

    Not being a YJCC mod, I am in no position to answer on their behalf.

    There have been numerous JCC threads, and scant mod input. That little mod input that there is mostly comes from non-JCC mods. The only JCC mods that have had anything to say are Liz, Griff, and KnightWriter (and the last two are only part time JCC mod).

    You have made your thoughts on the YJCC VERY clear. There have been many discussions in many threads. Except much like a religious "debate" each side is entrenched in their beliefs, and nothing is going to sway the other's opinion.

    You may find that conversation about the YJCC has faltered because we've heard all your points a dozen times before. And every time the YJCC is mentioned in a modsquad or AC update, there you are making a fuss and insulting the admins. After all the ranting upon a recent YJCC mod's promotion, are you surprised if she hasn't got the energy to discus YJCC matters with you personally, and prefers to concentrate on working through the guidelines with the AC & other mods?

    Anyway, there's not much more to discuss - you've laid out your ideas. We've taken them to the modsquad and AC and have been working through them point-by-point for some time.

    While your ideas are sound, there are plenty of very good arguments to counter them.

    As Carter has said earlier in this thread the moderators are here to try and make this place enjoyable for the majority of users. We have a fine line to walk when it comes to a YJCC reform because believe me, there are a lot of people who don't want more rules, and who don't want to be told what they can and cannot discuss in an "open" forum.

    Anyway, please, there are quite enough YJCC reform threads, I really don't wish for this to also become one...
  22. That_Flashing Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
  23. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Thank you for your helpful contribution to this thread.
  24. That_Flashing Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
  25. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    You have made your thoughts on the YJCC VERY clear. There have been many discussions in many threads. Except much like a religious "debate" each side is entrenched in their beliefs, and nothing is going to sway the other's opinion.

    You give people too little credit, jp. For one, I have a strong opinion against social threads. However, if you have been following my posting, you would see that I have incorporated the existance of social threads and social groups into my views of the JCC. I dont think that I am the only one to try and find ways to compromise.

    You may find that conversation about the YJCC has faltered because we've heard all your points a dozen times before. And every time the YJCC is mentioned in a modsquad or AC update, there you are making a fuss and insulting the admins. After all the ranting upon a recent YJCC mod's promotion, are you surprised if she hasn't got the energy to discus YJCC matters with you personally, and prefers to concentrate on working through the guidelines with the AC & other mods?

    Hmmm, last I heard there was more than one JCC mod, more than one that wasnt taking part in the discussion. And last I heard, there were more people in the JCC discussions than just me.

    This isnt simply me trying to discuss things with the mods. This is a whole lot of people trying to discuss things, and the mods not bothering with it.
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