:/ Hear me out.

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Indecent, Sep 11, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Just_A_Slacker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 4
    If not actively gotten involved, they should have at least come in after the fact and piped in their opinions.
  2. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    I think there has been good mod participation in the LMM case, but that is an arguable point since you think that hasn't been the case. It's not necessarily quantity but quality at issue here.

    And frankly, every mod doesn't have to respond to things previously said by other mods. That would only lead to redundancy.

    Look at the 500+ LMM posts in the different threads, it's the same thing rehashed over and over by different posters. The admins, i.e. Vert Epic, others have posted well thought out responses, but the answers are unacceptable to some users.

    And then some posters are intent on going through the same train of thought as to why it's unacceptable, and different users will add virtually the same comments, and it's a vicious circle of redundancy that doesn't seem to end.
  3. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Surely they are talking it over at Mod Squad; while members from the mod team and the AC with a more fervourous interest in the matter are talking about it here.

    Do you want a slew of posts from moderators saying "I agree with the administration on this issue" over and over again. They seem to have a united front, which I am not sure I agree with, and they are taking it further like that.
  4. JangoFettClone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 4
    "Well i'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill em all!"
  5. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    and it's a vicious circle of redundancy that doesn't seem to end.

    Surely that should be the tagline for the Communications forum.

    And don't call me Shirley.
  6. Just_A_Slacker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 4
    No, I want the mods and admins to come in here and tell us honestly what they think.

    It won't happen of course because God knows they have to show a "united front" since that is such a important thing to show in an internet message board.
  7. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Wouldn't you agree that public disagreement between numerous admins would increase the drama level even higher, and create other problems?
  8. Just_A_Slacker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 4
    No, I would not agree. What good is this message board except for the free exchange of ideas, even when it comes to this crap?

    Why is it a bad idea to have the mods come in here and publicly give their support or condemnation to whatever issue is at hand? I mean it just might stop some of this drama if all their discussions aren't held behind closed doors.
  9. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 6
    Public disagreement may be the catalyst needed for further discussion and exploration for a solution.

    Same thing happens in Congress all the time, yet despite the partisan bickering, they somehow manage to get some things done.
  10. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    It won't happen of course because God knows they have to show a "united front" since that is such a important thing to show in an internet message board.

    If the posters don't have some belief or faith in the mods as a "united" governing party, then they don't have confidence in the administration and that would only invite anarchy.

    FWIW, the mods have plenty of disagreements and many discussions as to what's right and what's wrong. But ultimately, we do decide collectively on the best interests of the board, and that's this "united front" that you see on the boards, so that the users can have confidence posting in the JC.
  11. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I think every single member should become a mod; let the lunatics run the asylum. Let anarchy take over. Let this get out of hand.

    Because, after all, we care so much for this and have zilch to do in the real world.
  12. Just_A_Slacker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 4
    If you say so Carter.

    But I think it's a copout so you guys don't have to discuss anything openly.

    Oops, I guess there goes the confidence that a united front is supposed to foster.
  13. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 6
    If the posters don't have some belief or faith in the mods as a "united" governing party, then they don't have confidence in the administration and that would only invite anarchy.

    You don't suppose it might re-affirm some people's faith in you guys if they at least saw some of the disagreements you guys have and how you resolve them?? It might actually make your jobs here easier in that regular users may see your civilized disagreements and see that it is possible to disagree on some issues without having to flame others about it and ultimately having to drag one of you into the thread to close it.


    *Edited for spelling*
  14. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    You don't suppose it might re-affirm some people's faith in you guys

    Why do some posters need to be reaffirmed, if they're already affirmed?
  15. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 6
    My point, was that there are plenty of people right now who once had faith in the majority of the admins here to run things fairly around here. This thread would seem to indicate that there are a good number of people here who no longer believe that to be true and would like to see something concrete rather than someone saying "We'll discuss it on the mod forum."

    Don't take me the wrong way. A lot of us posting in this thread simply want to help this place. Sure there's a few people here and there with somekind of hidden agenda, there always are, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who don't have a hidden agenda and simply want to make this little corner of the internet a better place.
  16. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I have no hidden agenda and I care. But how can I convince someone of that? I suppose it has to be from my actions and track record. And I'd like to think I've made this corner of the Internet a little better. I think all admins want what's best for the site. I think that too often true feelings and intent are lost in the lack of face-to-face contact. We can only express our feelings the best we can through our written words.
  17. Kyle Katarn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 6
    We can only express our feelings the best we can through our written words.

    Exactly, however when people don't see your words, they start to wonder just what the heck you guys are doing behind closed doors.
  18. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    This thread would seem to indicate that there are a good number of people here who no longer believe that to be true and would like to see something concrete rather than someone saying "We'll discuss it on the mod forum."

    That's bullcrap. There are four pages so far in this thread and I, myself, have posted abour four messages. There are two people that I can see voicing an opinon regarding their lack of confidence in the admins. This thread, more than anything, demonstrates that unhappiness in the forums is shared by only a handful of people and not the general forum public. You can't point to a measly fire in a trash can and declare that Rome is burning.

    I could not give a toss about the admins, 90% of whom I do not even know. I come here to discuss stuff with other fellow fans and what I can see is a complete apathy and disinterest in the way the place runs. For the general populace, a trivial spam discussion between BarryTheBambiTroll and CommanderTypho'sMantelpiece that leads to the demotion of LadyMaulyMouse and hence the happiness of DarthByeByeBaby means sod all.

    Hence try not to make a big issue out of it as it is not.

    And I am so very aware of the irony of my posting on these very arguments but then again hypocrisy is a way of life for me.

  19. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    My point, was that there are plenty of people right now who once had faith in the majority of the admins here to run things fairly around here.

    I disagree, I think there's a lot of faith in the current administration. This thread is a prime example of the strides we're making to improve the JC.

    This thread would seem to indicate that there are a good number of people here who no longer believe that to be true and would like to see something concrete rather than someone saying "We'll discuss it on the mod forum."

    Discussions in the mod forum are good cuz it shows we care. You see the results of that progress in the weekly mod squad updates.

    Don't take me the wrong way. A lot of us posting in this thread simply want to help this place.

    I agree with you, but it's not possible to please every single person 100% of the time.

    Sure there's a few people here and there with somekind of hidden agenda, there always are, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who don't have a hidden agenda and simply want to make this little corner of the internet a better place.

    The admins do have a hidden agenda, to make the JC enjoyable for the collective good.
  20. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Oftentimes, there are key users who post concerns in Communications. But at the heart of their posts is a desire to improve the site and a legitimacy in what they say. But what would you have us do? These differences between admins and regular users have always been there and will always be there.

    This is an issue that has been with mankind throughout the ages. When someone has power, either granted or perceived, there will always be those who doubt intent, goals, concern, and motives. That will never go away. But when I see few major issues in Communications and the same set of users bringing up discussion, I'm led to believe things, for the most part, are doing just fine.
  21. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    And then some posters are intent on going through the same train of thought as to why it's unacceptable, and different users will add virtually the same comments, and it's a vicious circle of redundancy that doesn't seem to end.

    Part of the reason it goes 'round and 'round and we have to keep making the same arguments in different ways over and over is because you don't read them. This is espcially true of you, Carter. You simply fail to acknowledge the majority of what we post, and continue to dwell on side points of the argument, failing to even try to acknowledge what we are saying. IMHO, the best damn mod that I have seen post so far is epic. He activily listened and replied to each point made by us in our many posts. Vertical did a pretty good job too, but seemed to get lost in the sheer volume of posts trying to get the mods to understand and respond.

    It would have been much better if every single mod would have posted in the LMM threads. Even if all they do is quote us and say I agree or disagree, it would have been valuable, it would have fostered better communications and feelings toward the mods, and it would have produced better arguments and viewpoints. How can we respond to disagreeing ideas when we can't see who disagrees with us or why because they only post in the modsquad.

    Communication is essential, and we have gotten precious little of it recently. Communication in the Comms forum needs to be frank, it needs to be to the point, and it needs to be active. Otherwise, nothing will ever get done. Threads on these boards are by their very nature different than a RL conversation. You have to keep many thoughts and ideas strung together in your head, and reply to them both as a whole and as individual ideas. You have to respond to lenghty posts in one post. And you have to keep referring back to previous posts and quotes (from different users, even) and string them together yourself to make a coherent discussion before you post. This isn't always easy to do, and frankly I feel some mods are quite poor at it. They don't see the picture, they don't "get it" and the never make the connection with "the point."

    If all the mods would post, even simple agree/disagree statements, it would allow us to see that we are being heard, where we are having troubles effectively communicating, and where people actually stand. We don't need to keep beating a dead horse if we get some feedback. And we need lots more feedback than we are getting.

    We need to see sometime how discussions are going in the mod squad. The way we do that is by having the mods actually tell us what they are thinking and feeling, not by having us actually read mod squad threads. That won't happen, and it doesn't need to happen. But a discussion is a two way street, and pretty much right now there is a lot of traffic going one way, and not much coming back.

    Yes, Carter, you have posted a lot in these threads, and most of the posters wish you would stop. You ignore the majority of our posts, fixate on one particular detail, and argue about that continuously. It appears to us that you are trying to skirt the issue, and that you don't want to deal with it, or you are trying to cover for someone.

    How many times over the past couple of days have you repeated your mantra that LMMs punishment was just about the spam, and that it was a harsh punishment. And how many times did we say that it wasn't just about the spam, that it shouldn't be just about the spam, and how we felt it was a very lax slap-on-the-wrist punishment for all of what he did. And you continually avoid the abuse of mod powers, where he unlocked a locked thread to get in the final word, flamed several of us, and then relocked it. How is that not abuse of mod powers? And why was he not punished for flaming? And what about his purposeful attempt to cause conflict? That isn't acceptable for a mod either.

    And yet you continued to mindlessly chant about the spam.

    Carter, there are lots of things for you to reply to in thi
  22. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    And I do apologize for the long post above. I have been extremely busy with school and work, and haven't had much time to devote to continuing to beat my head against the wall explaining my view point.

    And once again, I would like to personally thank epic for actually listening to everything we had to say, and for responding intelligently to all our concerns. I for one, greatly appreciated it.
  23. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    And I do apologize for the long post above.

    The post that starts with that particular line made the original all the longer, though.

    Sincerely,

    Mr Pedantic
  24. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    OK, I will stop trying to help you (watch the complaints come in that you are being ignored).

    Some of the other admins should chime in.
  25. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    [Leia] I'm here. [/Leia]
Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.