Heaven & Hell: Views on paradise and punishment

you seem very pessimistic, fireman. or seem to have not much emphathy for the human race

everyone has good and bad in them, some people let either side show more than others

 

No, I'm not pessimistic, and I happen to love humans. I just think they're pretty evil at heart, espescially compared to God.

 

humans are evil? completly evil through and through?

no good in them at all?

i find your lack of faith distrurbing

 

Don't get me wrong, we have good in us. And I do recognize that there are some out there who are genuinely good people. It's just that these people are rare.

But yeah, most people have some amount of good in them, and in fact most people show this goodness for most of the time... But underneath lies filth. And don't think I'm just judging others, because I recognize that I myself am way off course.

 

could you be more optimistic? at all?

there are so many wonderful things about this world and stil many, many good people in it if we are only open to it

 

True, there are many wonderful things about this world, but in my opinion the only good comes from Above.

 

*looks up* i find your views a bit hard to comprehend as all i saw was the ceiling

but i'm a panthiest, and if that makes me have a better look on life then so be it

 

In retrospect, I believe the only bad things in this world come from above, too. Perhaps not always directly, but clearly nothing could happen that God did not allow to happen.

Anyhoo... Ooooh, ice cream! *wanders off*

 

The_Fireman: Um...are you essentially saying that human kind is sinful, flawed, etc. and can only be redeemed through Christianity?

Katana_Geldar: I believe hell is a place that you create for yourself by sinning. I believe in consequence...people are punished by their sins.

It sounds like you & I are in complete agreement.

 

The_Fireman: Um...are you essentially saying that human kind is sinful, flawed, etc. and can only be redeemed through Christianity?

Through Christianity? No. Through Jesus. One doesn't have to be baptized, attend a specific church, and practice the Lord's Supper to come to the saving knowledge of the Messiah.

However, those who truly give everything up to Jesus will most of the time be led by Him to obey His commandments, which include things like baptism, missionary work, etc.

 

The_Fireman: O.K. then. Once again, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Agreed.

 

Incidentally, for those of you with the History Channel, at around 9:00 P.M. CST, there's a special on heaven and hell.

I advise everyone to take it with a grain of salt, as these stereotypical intellectuals will most likely throw out their biased opinions as if they were facts, when they're probably quite a bit contradictory to the overall message of the Bible on the two places. So feel free to double check everything with a Bible...

 

I think Heaven and Hell are more of a mental state of being than a physical one.

 

I have had people tell me I'll burn in hell if I refuse to accept Jesus. That usually illicits the response, "It's your hell, you burn in it." God and I have a good yuck or two whenever that happens. Heaven and hell........please.

 

Why do you dismiss the idea so non-chalantly? Is it not possible, even in the slightest, that Jesus was right about heaven and hell?

 

No. God has already told me so.

 

This is a great discussion. I personally believe that we are God.THOU ART GOD. Everything that exists is God. Yes even Hitler and the worst of the worst are God along with Jesus, Ghandi and the best of humanity.

The reason why people do bad things to each other is the illusion that we are separate from eachother... an ancient concept that still persists... We are so addicted in these outmoded views of God that we refuse to admit that our present views don't work and have rarely if ever worked.

Besides if you are God, and you hurt someone else, you are really hurting yourself.
If everyone got that they were God (ie. everything in existance) there is no need to hurt ourselves or eachother or to HAVE to posses or steal. That would just occur as a silly thing to do, unless ofcourse we enjoyed pain in which case the pain would become pleasure and we would not suffer.

So it's possible to have pain be an experience distinct from suffering.

Lucas is really onto something when he teaches in his movies about one's connection to ALL OF IT (God). There is nothing that exists which is not God. Therefore it is impossible to die. Everything goes back to the source from whence it came. Which is the origin of the word "religion."

The paradox is is that there is no place to go but where you are. There is only now... and now... and now.
It's time for we as a species to create a new way of looking and experiencing God (ALL OF IT) and ourselves as ALL OF IT.

Also what is needed is a new definition of what it is to be perfect.
Perfection is something being exactly as it is and exactly as it isn't. Whole and complete with nothing left out.
It is time for us to mature as a spieces and embrace GOD and Ourselves. Heaven and hell would not be places to go but rather states of being.

I realize this may sound like I'm speaking in circles and I am. But that's ok.

Ultimately what we do and say has a direct effect on everything else. What we do to ourselves would be a function of what kind of world we want to live in.

And it doesn't require believing or not believing, 'cause everything works out in the end.

The GOD in me recognizes the GOD in you.

Jedi Snake Oil Jake

 

I think heaven is a real place and so is hell, a place you can go to. Not a state of mind, but be absent from the body to be in either or two places. But I do think there can be different locations of the two, different levels maybe. The highest level of heaven would be near the throne of Christ. And hell gets worse as separation from God's spirit increases. I do think that we can experience heaven or hell on earth, to some degree. But not totally. You have to be absent of the body, the flesh, to have the full experience. But if God, or spirit leaves your body bone dry, you will experience levels of hell on earth, and if God fills you with spirit, sometimes as a creative force, then you feel a glimpse of heaven.
All and all, they are both tangible places in the celestial realm.

 

I have had people tell me I'll burn in hell if I refuse to accept Jesus. That usually illicits the response, "It's your hell, you burn in it." God and I have a good yuck or two whenever that happens

yes it is unfortunate when people say things like this. This is why people are so turned off by religon, because they try and control throught fear of tourmnet, which is far from accurate!

I feel for those who really belive in these lies!

 

Jesus lied then?

 

Fireman, please.

He used illustrations to get points across.
He used metaphors to illustrate things.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth!

If you belive your god will throw you in a lake of fire for sinning and if it works for you then happy happy joy joy for you!

 

I didn't put words in your mouth. You said we're spreading lies. In truth, all we're doing is preaching the same message Jesus preached. Therefore, according to you, Jesus was spreading lies.

 

Wrong again! And yes you are putting words in my mouth!

Jesus never said to anyone thet they would be tortured in hell when then sin or denounce God. That is something Christendom teaches which are lies! He used illustrations of the lake of fire and Gehenna which mean destruction, not tourment.


I didn't put words in your mouth. You said we're spreading lies. In truth, all we're doing is preaching the same message Jesus preached. Therefore, according to you, Jesus was spreading lies

So if your teaching what Jesus taught you certainly wouldn't say that hell is a place of tourture because he didn't. Not to mention there is a distinction between hell and gehenna, but you should already know this That is if you teach what Jesus taught

 

Yes, I agree that it is destruction, but there is a period of torment. There is punishment for sin, and remember, when in a fire, you burn a while before being consumed. I agree that you don't burn for eternity, however, that doesn't mean hell and the lake of fire aren't real places where you are punished for your sins before eventually being consumed.

Jesus preached that unless you have been born again, you will go there (John 3:1-21), and that the punishment is eternal (Matthew 25:46). I suspect the first part is some kind of literal torment, and then comes the death, which is eternal.