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Heir to the Empire Trilogy is outdated. 16 years old. They need to be updated

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JediMasterKendo, Jan 12, 2009.

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  1. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    What king? Was the Burger King in the room somewhere? What HEALERS? If saving someone from death is such an easy thing why would Anakin need to go to the Sith to learn it? Finally, what lack of medical attention? The scene you're describing has no relation to the one in the film!
     
  2. JediMasterKendo

    JediMasterKendo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2000
    I dug out my my old paperback copy of Heir to the Empire and just read the chapter where Thrawn and Palleon go find the Coruus clone at that one planet.

    On page 54 Thrawn does mention the Outbound Flight project and that he was a commander at the time. Yeah maybe that one little reference to the Outbound Flight kind of sticks with continuity but still the Thrawn trilogy books are still 16 years old and some of the stuff contradict the recent stuff like Tatooine Ghost.
     
  3. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Yup. It is surely annoying that people don't seem to bother checking up on old stuff first. [face_plain]
     
  4. Stymi

    Stymi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    I think that's an unfair statement. Authors seem to do a heck of a lot of research for Star Wars novels, comics, etc.

    But the universe is so large now with so many events and nunaces concerning those events that to expect authors to get it all correct and consisitent is unrealistic.

    As I've said before, even with authors who are the sole aurhors for universes they have created (Asimov, Orson Scott Card, Frank Hebert, Stephen King, etc.) there are continuity errors.

    I never understood why people make such a big deal of it.
     
  5. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    So? If there's a contradiction between The Thrawn Triloogy and Tatooine Ghost then it's Denning's fault, and Tatooine Ghost would be to blame.

    Should we update Tatooine Ghost?

    No.

    It's bad enough George keeps messing with the Original Trilogy, that doesn't mean we have to start mucking about with the books.

     
  6. JediMasterKendo

    JediMasterKendo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Tatooine Ghost isnt the one along with other recent stuff from last year that need to be updated.

    It's the old Heir to the Empire Trilogy books that need updated. Period. Yeah the old Heir to the Empire book has a reference to Outbound Flight but that was written way back in 1992 for crying out loud.

    Stuff in continuity that I am talking about is Leia's decision to be forgiving at Anakin Skywalker for doing the things he did when he became Darth Vader.

    In Truce at Bakura and Tatooin Ghost she's like all moping and mas as hell against Anakin Sywaker the Friendly Ghost and then at the end of Tatooine Ghost she pretty much forgave him in a way.

    Then in the Heir to the Empire Trilogy she's still ranting and raving about Anakin Skywalker being a jerkwad and all that stuff. Like I said the three Heir to the Empire books need to be updated. They're ancient as hell too
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    And you fail to see the obvious connection between:

    Heir to the Empire (1992) mentioning the Outbound Flight and...

    Survivor's Quest (2004) and Outbound Flight (2006) giving the full story of that mission...

    When both are written by Timothy Zahn? o_O

    As to the forgiveness point, how many people do you know who have truly forgiven another person and never get hacked off with them ever again? That's Leia. She is convinced by Han to relent on her view of Anakin, then she finds he conned a race into enslavement for the Empire for 30 years, you bet she's going to be hacked off.

    [image=http://www.ota-jones.net/main/images/lamberter3.jpg]

    Where you see continuity chaos, I see connection; where you see disorder, I see character.
     
  8. vong333

    vong333 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2003
    NO!!! We are not changing or updating what I consider to be the granddaddy of the EU novels. And it ain't no LOE or ROTS or any prequel crap. Or those wierd Bantam Novels that were ridiculous like Children of the Jedi and A New Alliance. It's the Heir to the Empire Trilogy. Proably the best star wars writing ever........
     
  9. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Yeah. Decades-old stuff that gets contradicted by newer material is lame.

    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/2/21/Star_wars_old.jpg/383px-Star_wars_old.jpg]

    As the prequels show us, newer does not always mean better. There are any number of intellectual or artistic reason to not change around an older piece of material. Their covers and their prose are, of course, a product of their times. So what? There are plenty of more recent books whose covers are not as good, and the story told in the Thrawn Trilogy is among the most beloved in all of the EU. Any retconning needed to keep the books consistent with later continuity can be taken "behind the scenes" in reference books or directly in newer books. It would be criminal to meddle with the original works.
     
  10. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006

    It wasn't 30 years though. He was only 45 when he croaked.

    It's the only thing that bothered me about the series was the dating. They retconned by saying the Noghri year was six standard months. Yoda fought with a dark jedi 50 years ago, though with yoda it could have been 500 years earlier.
     
  11. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    To illustrate your point better, Terry Brooks actually has a continuity editor for his Shannara books. Not even he keeps things straight, and flubs get through.
     
  12. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Oh, soooooooooooo sorry! "Prince Consort/Planetary RULER". There, fixed.

    Padme didn't have any medical attention. She died on a cot. No one did a thing to help her or save her. Putting her in a night gown and patting her forehead with a damp cloth doesn't cut it.

    Bail is a planetary ruler (I guess sarcasm is lost on some.) Jedi are supposed to have extraordinary healing powers, esp Yoda. None of them did a thing to help her. She could have had a respirator, a heart monitor. She may have been laying on the floor in a grass hut, with holy men murmuring chants. Wear is her defilibrator? Oxygen? That's all a person needs to stay alive.

    I had an arythmia at work last month and I spent the day at the hospital hooked up to a monitor int he Er, and had EKG's and other stuff. The nurses came in ever few minutes. I still have the blemishes on my skin from the sticky stuff. I had better care than Padme.

     
  13. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Everytime I see you post you're harping on how bad the characters are. Sheesh.

    Perhaps not everything they tried to do for Padme was depicted. Ever think about that? What do you expect to happen? ROTS turns into ER for 20 minutes so that you can be satisfied?

     
  14. RebelJoseWales

    RebelJoseWales Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Dude: She lost. The will. To live? Does the entire fandome have to defend the hands-down dumbest moment in all SW (which is saying something, given KJA's involvement) so that you can be satisfied?
     
  15. Robal_Krahl

    Robal_Krahl Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2003
    I now have this strange desire to see a House/Star Wars crossover.
     
  16. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Actually, that isn't a dumb moment at all. In fact, it's a pretty valid reason. Besides, this is Star Wars, not the real world. It's campy, pretty much a fairy tale, things like that happen in fairy tales.
     
  17. Robal_Krahl

    Robal_Krahl Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2003

    It really is pretty dumb. I mean, I can understand losing the will to live after the love of your life strangles you... but c'mon, she just had two kids. One would think that a little bit of motherly instinct would kick in, especially with someone like Padme. "I had two babies just now, but I can't seem to find a reason to live" is pretty much one of the weakest moments in the entire saga. Character assassination + weaksauce excuse = dumb moment.
     
  18. T-boy-wan

    T-boy-wan Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Some women just don't survive child birth. Given what Padme had experienced emotionally, I'm not surprised she didn't have the strength to survive. Its not like she chose to die or anything. When Anakin told her about his dream she was more concerned about what happened to her child(ren) then to herself.
     
  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    That's irrelevant to what he did do though - which was enslave a race by a promise of restoring their planet, then go on to use them as personal assassins for years while poisoning the planet he had promised to restore. Was Leia ever going to take this well?
     
  20. Robal_Krahl

    Robal_Krahl Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2003
    Did you miss the "There is nothing medically wrong with her" part? Regardless of the EU trying to explain that scene in a plausible way, it's still one of the dumbest story elements in a Star Wars movie. "Lost the will to live," indeed. Lost the will to write is more like it.
     
  21. RebelJoseWales

    RebelJoseWales Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Pure. Total. Win.
     
  22. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    That is ludicrous.

    When did the films ever establish that Yoda or any other Jedi had "extraordinary healing powers"?

    An example of what the films establish is this scene you have a problem with. Just because it doesn't agree with the extremes of the EU doesn't make it stupid.

    I guess you missed it?
     
  23. ThrawnRocks

    ThrawnRocks Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2004
    What, like this?

    [image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ThrawnRocks/TholmeJM.jpg]

    :p
     
  24. RebelJoseWales

    RebelJoseWales Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2008

    She might as well have had a bunch of Ewoks taking care of her. Sure, they delivered the babies, but then had nothing to say except "She's lost the will to live." Who the hell certified those droids? Or their producer, or factory, or whatever.
    I don't recall for sure whether or not there was a heart monitor, but I sure didn't see a breath mask. And, as Robahl pointed out, "There's nothing medically wrong with her."
     
  25. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    I didn't miss pretty graphics. I did miss the part where it could do her any good. A sheet and a nightgown doesn't help. What did that thing over her belly do? Cut her in half to get the kids out?
    What good is oxygen if it's not in your NOSE, going to the LUNGS? She had hair pins in her hair or something, they did her hair but not put her on life support. I suppose they buffed her toenails as well, they looked quite manicured.

    BTW, thanks to all the people that agree with lousy plots. And to the one that says all he reads is me saying "bad things" about characters, yeah right, it's more like the "same" things.
     
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