"Hell" in Star Wars.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by FloppyMaN, Jun 7, 2006.

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  1. FloppyMaN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2005
    star 4
    I was finishing up Betrayal yesterday and it came to me when Wedge was confronted by Thrackan Solo about his daughter and he told Thrackan Solo to "Go To hell"

    And it came to me, after finishing the book, I noticed the term used several times.

    Hell is a figment of our creation. Something us Humans of Earth created. It is a mythological place for no gooders by any religion.


    I ve never seen religion used in any concept in Star Wars.

    This comment to me would be the same as someone saying "Jesus Christ" Hell does not exist in the Star Wars galaxy. Yes there may be something like it. But probably under a different name. Hell is part of religion.

    [/rant]

    Ok so did anyone else notice this, and think as I did. That the use of that term was out of context?
  2. Kaje Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Betrayal was hardly the first use of the word in SW. Go watch The Empire Strikes Back.

    Han: "Then I'll see you in hell!"
  3. XizorReincarnate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2003
    star 2
    I don't think I've ever heard a religious term like "go to hell" in star wars either. You'd think you would because religious phrases like that are common language devices. It's surprising there aren't more slip-ups like that.
  4. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    There are thousands of religions in Star Wars, most of them based on our own.

    And many of our world religions (even without contact with judeo-Christian) contain Hell variants for evil people.

    Plus, a Literal Hell exists in the Dark Side.
  5. FloppyMaN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2005
    star 4
    I am not saying there is no religion in Star Wars.

    But Hell is a creation of Man. A place that was created though our main religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
  6. 000 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2005
    star 4
    Corellian culture has a concept of nine Hells, so it was perfectly in character for Wedge to say that. It did bother me slightly when Nelani said it, though. Although there's not reason for her not to have.
  7. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    And Buddhism and Hindu (which have a LOT of hells) and Taoism (ditto).

    Didn't you see Big Trouble in Little China?

    "I'll send you to Hell of being SKINNED ALIVE!"

    I'm sorry, but you do realize that Hell is a translation for a LOT of places.

    Next you'll be saying Demons are a Judeo-Christian concept.

    If it makes you feel better, just assume that its referring to just "A place where bad people go when they die."

    If you assume that Judeo-Christianity is the only place with this concept, I'm sorry to say you're just wrong and its a fairly universal doctrine.
  8. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Hell is a religious creation... true... but I guess it's just entered into common speech enough that we're just meant to accept it as a generic expletive.

    Even the religious Hell in real life owes its name to a non-religious source, I believe it was named after the site outside Jerusalem where they burned rubbish which was called Hell. That was before Hell had come to be used by Christianity as a religious term. I think this did have some origins in Judaism but I believe they called it Hades before then and that the origins of the actual term Hell are somewhat blurred. Anyhow... long story short... it's been taken out of context in real life for various things so has, for all intents, entered into common, non-religious, use and meaning.

    I suppose another way of putting it is simply that the word "Hell" is the English translation for any religious place where the bad people go when they die. No doubt it was called something different in Hinduism before being translated into English, so it's the same concept, if Galactic Basic is English then Hell is just the Basic translation of the "bad people land" of any background, as the word "Hell" itself does not necessarily refer to any particular religion, its just an English translation of any religion's equivalent place.

    I have to admit I'm not a fan of it when I see them use the word Hell, as I prefer them to keep to their in-universe list of funny insults like frack and frell, otherwise there's an argument for why they don't just use other real terms like damn, etc. I can't say it really bothers me though.
  9. kever20 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2004
    star 1
    I can't remember which book... I think it was TRAITOR... Jacen talked about something from one of the Nine Corellian Hells... So there you go... It could be a Corellian thing!

    Kevin
  10. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Damn is technically a religious term too, and that's popped up a few times. Although off the top of my head, it's never been used in the semi-religious context, like "damn you", but always as an adjective, like "damn fool".
  11. Kidan TFN EU Staff

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    Jul 20, 2003
    star 5
    Hell was started in Judaism as a place in the desert outside Juersalem. It was a place of intense and miserable heat, and came to be used as a description of the pain and misery that those who die with Ywhw suffer. Through the two centuries of Christianity, it has become synonomous with the "Lake of fire" of Revelation fame.


    As a side note, Nordic myths have a Hell as well, though it is a place of frozen waste where women and the elderly go after death.



    Hades is a Greco-Roman concept for the underworld, and has none of the conotations of punishment like the Judaic-based concept of Hell.
  12. FloppyMaN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2005
    star 4
    ^ See that's what I was trying to say.

    I wasn't limiting it to a Judeo-Christianity.

    But I was saying that it is an our universe insult and reference.

    I would prefer if Star Wars stayed to using there own insults and references. Like SithSpawn.

    Charlemagne19, I am not trying to say that Hell is limited to Judeo-Christianity. Or that it doesn't exist in the SW universe. What I am trying to say is that it is a term/insult of OUR culture.
  13. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    The movies had "hell" and "damn", and none of these made-up words. Shadow Hunter also had "piss", which I think has been one of the few other real epithets used. Honestly, I like it better. It feels more real, like something the characters in question would say, rather than all that "Spast, you kriffing snarkster!" stuff.

    Betrayal was good at this. "Go to hell" has a certain impact that all of the kriffs in the world can't match. When characters say it, you know what they mean and the emotions they're presenting.
  14. 000 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2005
    star 4
    Like I've always said-- everything else is translated to English, so why isn't the swearing?
  15. LtNOWIS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 4
    I don't see how there's a problem, at least not one starting the EU.

    Han mentioned Hell in Episode V. Later it was explained as a part of Corellian mythology. (I think it was mentioned in the Episode III novel.)

    It's just like Anakin mentioning angels. The concepts are pretty universal, and it comes from Lucas.

  16. 000 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2005
    star 4
    Han wasn't referring to a mythologial or religious hell, anyway. Hell is actually a secret smugglers planet that rescued smugglers were brought to to get their bearings and get passage elsewhere. See, had Han's tauntaun died, he would have pressed his Smuggler Beacon and summoned a drone-piloted Smuggler Rescue Vehicle that would have brought him to Hell.

    You can read more about Hell in Galaxy Guide 23: Pirates Say the Darndest Things.
  17. DropkickJake Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 3
    I would just like to point out that Hell is not a "Creation of Man."

    But besides that, What Charlemenge was getting at (I beleive) is that if hell was a human creation, just about every society of humans have "created" one.

    Therefore it makes perfect sense that humans in Star Wars would have such a place.
  18. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    Um, that depends on one's personal theology.
  19. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    Hades is Greek (did the Romans keep it Hades, or did it change when they changed his name to Pluto)

    Before Christianity, the underworld of monotheists was known as Sheol.
  20. AlisonC Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2005
    star 4
    Because it makes censors itchy.
  21. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Yep, keep buying them hardcovers. That's right.
  22. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Hades was Greek as well, yes.

    However, if Wikipedia is anything to go by, Judaism originally called it Sheol which was translated into Hades in the early days of Christianity, presumably because they used the Greek term in the translations rather than use Sheol which would have been a new word for them to remember.

    My point was largely that Hades is basically the same as Hell: its a word and an English (or back then probably Latin or something) translation. The two are virtually inter-changable as none of us are speaking in Arabic and the true origins of most Christian, Islamic or Jewish terms. The only difference is the English translation when it comes to Christianity, Islam or Judaism is Hell, but when we're talking about ancient Greece is Hades.

    Pure cirumcstance more than anything, as there isn't much reason why the ancient scholars couldn't have chosen Hades instead or vice-versa when they were translating Sheol into modern English, which goes to highlight how Hell is just an English translation for all equivalent places, even if their "true" names are different, like Sheol.

    So if Corellia has a Hell-like place, then in English chances are it'd be called Hell.
  23. LastOneStanding Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 4
    Let's also keep in mind, how often do we see references to a "Hell" in fantasy-related media...which Star Wars is, whether you believe it or not, a part? Lots. The term "Hell" has gone far beyond the real-world religious context from which is was first derived. Therefore, this term being used in the Star Wars franchise is nothing to be shook-up about.
  24. Quinnocent-Till-Sith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2004
    star 3
    Wouldn't the same pedantry with words have to apply to things like "Knight" aswell?

    It's the concept of china plates in the Star Wars galaxy that should be creating more migranes. ;)
  25. DropkickJake Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 3
    "Um, that depends on one's personal theology."

    Conceeded, but it being a "Creation of Man" does as well.
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