San Joaquin, CA Hello

I have nothing to say, but hello. I was told I should join this thing, and here I am. Haha, I loved The Shadows of the Empire video game. I am currently playing Republic Commando, for X-Box. I rented Battlefront last month, and played it quite a bit. That game is great. Anyways, I am wanting to read Star Wars Books, and I was wondering who is the best author? I want to read a book about Master Yoda, could anyone tell me if and which book talks about him?
-Dash

 

I asked about the books recently too, and they told me that the best place to start would be the "Jedi Apprentice" series by Judith W., I believe her name was. Master Kenobi said that the whole series goes from when Qui Gon was teaching Obi-Wan, up until Obi-Wan's exile after the lava fight in EPIII. Target has the newest one for a good price, as does Border's. As far as Yoda, you might want to read "Yoda - Dark Rendezvous (Star Wars: Clone Wars Novel)" by Sean Stewart. It's about Yoda trying to get through to Count Dooku one last time before having to encounter him. It takes place around the clone wars timeframe.

I have "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" by Michael Reaves if you want to borrow it. So far it's a good book, but I was never really interested in Maul's story so I'm looking for something new as well. I would also recommend picking up the "New Essential Guide to Characters: Star Wars", which from the looks of it is very imformative on all of the characters. You can get it new at any book stores for roughly around $25, or on online auctions like ebay for around $14. Lastly, on www.starwars.com , there is an link called "Expanded Universe" I believe, that you can click on that tells the stories of every character, from Anakin and Luke Skywalker, to Han and Anakin Solo, to Yoda and Yaddle and everything in between. Hope that helps you, and yes, Shadows Of The Empire is a great game and a great book as well. -Jerry

 

damn, jerry. you're the guy i'm going to talk to if i ever (get the time to) start reading star wars books again...

i fizzled out with the reading a long time ago, as there were starting to be too many books & comics to keep up with... not disinterested, exactly, just never enough time for all the things i want to do.

and actually i would be interested in maul's story- he just sort of shows up, looks bad-ass and dies. i'd be curious to know what motivated him, and how he became involved with sidious.

 

hahahaha. I just like star wars a lot. I haven't read all of them, in fact I've read very little, I just read up on a lot. I like to know what's happening. Speaking of what's happening, has anyone read the new issue of rolling stone, with darth vader on the cover? At Goodwill(where I work) if anyone donates magazines we have to throw them away and that one came today so I kept it. GREAT articles/interviews. Mr. Lucas(hahaha) hints at something that Liz and I were curious about which is if the Sith Lord that Sidious spoke to Anakin about(the one who could change midichloriens(not spelled right I'm sure) was responsible for Anakin's birth. Good stuff. -Jerry

 

It wasn't the Sith Lord that Palpatine spoke of who created Anankin, it was his apprentince who learned all those secrets before "killing him in his sleep", hmm wonder who the apprentice was...

The first three Timothy Zahn novels are really good, right up to the end of the last one, which isn't bad, just abrupt. Worth a look-see.

 

Crazy. We got the impression that it was The Master who did it, but now that you say that, it makes much more sense. Thanks for the info.

 

In the movie Palpatine says that the Sith Load had this knowledge and passed it on to his apprentice who then killed him. What is in the novel but not in the movie is Palpatine telling Anakin later that he was the apprentice.
It is hinted at by George and by Ian McDiarmond(I think the speeling is off on that) that is was Palpatine that causes Anakin's conception.


This means that I have a grandson. I'm so happy.

 

I remember Sidious saying that in the movie, and I figured out that he was the apprentice, but for some odd reason I thought at first that the master did it, when Sidious said the stuff about the Sith Lord being able to bring life and such and that he passed it onto his apprentice(Sidious). It makes me a lot more excited knowing that it was possibly Sidious though.

 

what the heck was sidious doing on tatooine?

 

For what it's worth, I vaguely recall reading an article (won't swear to it, as I can't produce the reference immediately) in which Lucas effectively said, "Nonono! It WAS the Will of the Force and not SIDIOUS manipulating the Force which created Anakin."

Personally, I kinda liked the idea that Sidious manipulated the Force to "create" his ideal apprentice...and ended up with Anakin, who eventually destroyed him and fulfilled a prophecy against the Sith instead. I thought it was clever and ironic and a way to show the the Force eventually does what the Force does and nobody, not even a Sith Lord, can truly bend it to their will in the end.

But from what I read in this nebulous article I can't dredge up was Lucas saying, "Nope. Will of the Force. Period. Why on earth would anybody think it was Sidious?"

*sigh* I hate it when we're more imaginative than George.

 

personally, i didn't think it was sidious or his master who created anakin. first of all, why would either of them randomly be out on tatooine just checking out some slave-women or something, and happen to decide to impregnate one of them at will (by way of the force)? secondly, if they did actually do that, wouldn't which ever one of them who did it have kept anakin under tighter wraps and not left it up to some straggling JEDI (gasp!) to find him? and train him?

i just thought palpatine added that little verbage simply to get a leg up on what he was best at - manipulating others, particularly unsuspecting force-drenched little anakin. i figured it was it all part of the whole "darth vader was seduced by the dark side of the force" thing.

 

oops, that ^^^ was me. this is getting a little annoying. and confusing.

 

Tatooine is in the outlying regions of the Republic and under control of the Huts. If you are going to create a chosen one that would be the place to go since the Jedi are not likely to show up too often. The Jedi look for infants that are strong with the Force to bring into the order. Anakin would have gone unnoticed until Palpatine was ready for him. There may have also been others but Anakin is the only one to survive.

I have a grandchild, so stop trying to ruin it for me.

Golda

 

I wasn't saying that it was either for sure, I just mentioned that in the new issue of Rolling Stone, Lucas says that it hints that one of the two Siths might have created Anakin. He also then said that he's leaving it up to the viewer to decide for themselves. I think this idea works differently for each person. Personally, I think a young, kind boy who made incredibly bad decisions which led to the demise of most loved ones, loss of friendships, and ultimately his redemption is what I'd like to think about. That story is so much more interesting in my opinion. The whole idea of redemption and turning your mistakes into lessons learned is something I enjoy. The whole "Sith created him for this or that" is kind of lame, but hey that's subjective I guess. -Jerry

 

Just because Sid is responsible for Anakin's conception does not mean that he would be automatically Sith. But by choosing a slave he made sure that the boys life would be hard. It is Anakin's love that is his downfall. His love for his mother led him to kill the Sand People. His love for Padame led him to help kill Mace. Sid was his only hope of saving Padame, or so he believed. Anakin would do whatever he had to do to keep her from dying. After helping to kill Mace he is no longer Anakin Skywalker but Darth Vader. It is Vader that goes to the Jedi Temple. Anakin is gone. But it is this love that brings about the end of both Sid and Vader in Return of the Jedi. Anakin returns to save those he could not save before.

I think that is a great story.

Golda

 

<The whole "Sith created him for this or that" is kind of lame, but hey that's subjective I guess.>

well, i'm pretty sure most of us thought the whole midichlorian thing was a brimming crock of B.S. in the first place (LAME!) much less the thought of someone manipulating them in some sort of bizarre breeding program... what happened to the "force that flows through us and binds us?" maybe sidious just made it up to manipulate anakin further, figuring his mother probably told him he had no natural father? (reminds me of a prayer for owen meany all of a sudden...) i find it easier to believe that someone slipped her some ruffies in mos eisley than the immaculate conception cliche. but then, i'm funny about religion.

half of what comes out of sidious' mouth is dull repetition- use your anger, give in to the dark side, it is your destiny, blah blah blah- and the other half is whatever oily crap he comes up with to manipulate- gee what a pity no-one will stand up for you, elect me instead, isn't it a swell idea to give me complete power so i can protect you, do what i say because only i can save your loved one, whoops, did i say that? i meant *maybe* we can figure it out together once you help me kill all these pesky jedi (for which i would have 'sabered the lying git right then and there)

just another rambling, poorly-punctuated tangent.

 

Yeah I agree with all of that.

 

********personally, i didn't think it was sidious or his master who created anakin. first of all, why would either of them randomly be out on tatooine just checking out some slave-women or something, and happen to decide to impregnate one of them at will (by way of the force)? **********

Well, if I decided to go with the "Sidious started it" theory of Anakin-conception, I'd say that he willed a life to be created, and the Force decided where and when...meaning that Anakin WAS born of the Force, had free will, made bad decisions, and fell because of them, ultimately, not because Sidious might have willed the production of a new apprentice.

Because, really, I think the thing with the Sith is they believe they "control" the Force, rather than working with it, but it's sort of like a fish saying it "controls" the river because when it beats its tail, water moves in response. If that river decides to sweep the fish away, that fish is gone, baby.

Hence, Sidious "forced" the Force to create his apprentice, but the Force is greater by far, and instead the prophecy that the Jedi sensed was instead fulfilled. And since the Jedi, as well, don't control the Force in any meaningful way, that prophecy came about in a way they couldn't possibly predict.

Now, all that being said, I dunno if I believe what I just spouted, but if I was going to--say--write a fic about the concept, that's the way I'd go.

 

****It is Anakin's love that is his downfall. His love for his mother led him to kill the Sand People. His love for Padame led him to help kill Mace.****

I respectfully disagree. It's not Anakin's love that is his downfall. FEAR is Anakin's downfall. Anakin left his mother at an early age. He wanted and needed a loving connection that he lost at that point. He tried to connect that way with Qui Gonn, but Qui Gonn died far too early to satisfy his orphaned need for parenting. He inherited Obi-Wan, who had good intentions, but--as we could see from AOTC--he's no great ace at parenting in a loving manner either, no matter that he clearly DOES love Anakin. Not great at showing it constructively. Probably most Jedi aren't, considering they aren't raised with that sort of connection to others.

Anakin grows up lonely and out of his element, out of the family he knew--trying to impress Obi-Wan and bond with him, and only getting criticism and veiled caring that isn't enough to satisfy his loss. Fear of further loss develops because of this, and grows out of control when he tries to save his mother and his mother dies in his arms. In spite of all his power, in spite of being "The Chosen One"...when it comes to getting the love he needs from his friend/mentor/father figure Obi-Wan, or saving the person he loves the most, Prophecy-Fulfilling Anakin is a Big Fat Failure. How terrifying is that? Everybody is counting on you to save the universe, and you can't even save the one you love.

As he grows older and transfers that need to be loved to Padme, he transfers his fear of loss and failure to that relationship as well. When his dreams of loss and death begin, he goes nuts with that fear, and instead of dealing with it in a mature way, he falls back into being that scared child who has lost all the support he's ever known. Fear leads to holding too tight, holding too tight leads him to violence, violence leads him to the point Padme and Kenobi turn from him (the ultimate withholding of love and incidentally his greatest fear), and that leads him straight over the edge into terrified, seething rage and he lashes out at her and Kenobi and his fall to the Dark Side is complete.

That's not love. That's fear. Love with out of control fear=controlling and abusive behavior. Love without fear, love that can risk loss--that's the hard part.

Eh. The input from the domestic violence worker. I've seen stuff like that--far less fictionalized, of course--in real life. I give Lucas credit for taking Anakin down a path that makes a lot of psychological sense.

 

well spoken, kai. as a diagnosis, i like it. you can dance to it, i give it an 85! i wish lucas could have presented a little more of that depth, instead of just making ani seem like a whiny angsty teen. which, it is easy to forget, what with him being the chosen one and all, that he actually is- a boy struggling toward maturity, burdened with all the usual angsty teen stuff AND this incredible natural talent and ability AND everyone's expectations... hmm, doesn't sound like anybody i know... it was a real treat in episode three to see him really making an effort to be more mature about things. you can see him visibly fighting to be less resentful and more appreciative of obi-wan, and it pleased me no end that he did the right thing and actually ratted out sidious- i had really expected him to keep it a secret. he was trying so hard to control his feelings and be an adult, and it all fell through anyway.
the great tragedy (as seems to me) is that at every turn, the wrong choices were made. he should have been placed with a more mature jedi master if he was going to be trained; obi-wan meant well, but lacked experience and wisdom himself. he shouldn't have been placed in the oh-so-tempting position of padme's bodyguard, especially not after fawning over her charms to obi-wan: that smacks of danger with a hormone-addled teenage boy, chosen one or not. he shouldn't have been allowed such proximity to the chancellor, and then placed in the dilemma of spying on him. it didn't take the wisdom of master yoda to see that there was disaster building but everybody missed it, what with all their navel-gazing and the distraction of the war. they all agreed he seemed to be extraordinary, but no special care was taken to guide him on the path, EVEN THOUGH HIS WEAKNESSES WERE POINTED OUT WHEN HE WAS A SMALL BOY. great potential, for good and for evil. and everyone blew it.

two cents more.

 

I agree with all your points. Kenobi tried his best, but he was never portrayed (even with the limited portrayal Lucas allowed Ewan) as a terribly empathetic person, early on. He was very concerned with "right" and "wrong" and concerned with teaching Anakin how to "be a good Jedi" and how to "fulfill his responsibilities" but not as good at understanding the human fears and frailties that drove his apprentice's behavior. And the Masters weren't much better--perhaps because they never had dealt with a Padawan who had not been raised "in the system" from infancy and who had the Jedi values and lack of real personal bonding indoctrinated into him at an early age.

Basically, they fell down on the job. They were so concerned with propriety and tradition, they missed most of their chances to deal with Anakin as a person, and inadvertantly aggravated the very personality traits in him that would take him over the edge later.

It wouldn't have made a great plot, maybe, but how much might have changed if Kenobi had been more open to talking with, rather than talking TO, Anakin? If, rather than tearing him down in public, he might have instead stopped and just taken him aside to talk to him about "proper" behavior instead of doing it in front of witnesses? Just little things...

Kenobi wasn't "responsible" for the choices Anakin made as an adult, but he likely (were he a real person) would have to shoulder a tremendous burden of guilt, not for what he failed to TELL Anakin, but for what he failed to ask and listen to.

 

I think you both have good pionts and opinions on this subject. I still choose to believe tht Sid was responsible for Anakin's conception. It makes for a better story then the "virgin birth" idea. It also plays right into the Mary Shelly morality tale of the 'monster' that destorys his 'creater.'

Golda

 

What I like about my personal theory is you can have your cake and eat it, too. Sidious "forces" the Force to create life, trying to make the ideal apprentice. He succeeds, and yet the Force manifests this child and fulfills the prophecy the Jedi foresaw about balance being restored...all at the same time!

Voila!

Prophecy fulfilled! Sidious does the "creating" thus avoiding to a degree the annoying "Virgin Mary" aspect of the plot, and Anakin still has total free will!

 

Well put.

 

*takes a bow*