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Saga Henchmen in the Saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Iron_lord, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Until ESB, when he's promoted to the level of Grand High Executioner, or some such.

    This still doesn't contradict my long-standing opinion of Vader's real position in the grand scheme of things - he was always Palps' #2, and between ROTS and SW/ANH he was a shadowy figure given free rein to do the Emperor's dirty work behind the scenes, but it wasn't until after DSI was destroyed and the minor conflicts with a rag-tag bunch of rebels escalated to full-blown civil war that Palpatine was prepared to unleash this monster upon the galaxy in full sight.
    Prior to that, and before the increasingly meaningless Imperial Senate was disbanded, the Empire was still keeping up the facade of being a legitimate government. It took twenty years and a 'crisis' to get rid of such trappings and consolidate Imperial power, then Palps didn't really care about image, hence why a Sith Lord in an iron mask, probably considered to be an urban myth until that point, was finally allowed to become the face of the Empire.

    So yes, in SW/ANH, he was a 'henchman' - but he was still the Big Bad of the film, like so many other memorable henchmen. Putting aside the larger, later picture, if you look at some pre-release posters, there's no doubt about who anyone thought would be the most memorable villain:

    1976 San Diego Comic-Con Howard Chaykin giveaway

    [​IMG]

    Ralph McQuarrie concept posters

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Cover of the 1976-released novelisation:

    [​IMG]

    Not to mention the more well-known posters, which were created before the film was a success.

    [​IMG]


    I've always found it irritating when Darth Vader is referred to as a 'mere henchman' in SW/ANH (particularly in TSHOSW), as if the public reaction to the character was what led to his later importance in the larger story yet to be created. He was always the Big Bad Guy, regardless of his actual ranking. The novel bears this out, as well.
    As far as Vader's superior officer is concerned - of the better known posters from the time, Tarkin only appears in this one, and he's thoroughly dwarfed by his 'henchman':

    [​IMG]

    If you rank the importance of characters to the storyline based upon their actual in-universe rankings, the main Good Guy of SW/ANH was General Dodonna, not some rookie pilot named Luke Skywalker.
     
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  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  3. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2014
    I agree with what you're saying, Darth Nub. However, I see Vader's position as the Emperor's henchman, and as the main villain in the story as two different things. Vader was the most important villain as a character. He became completely fleshed out and - in my opinion - an interesting and tragic character. But his JOB was to be the Emperor's Number Two.
     
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  4. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I'd argue Jabba was his own boss.
     
  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Ozzel, Piett, and Needa are definitely henchmen.
     
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  6. Rabs

    Rabs Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    True. I was thinking of the Empire when I made my post. I bet If Vader showed up and gave Jabba orders the old Hut would do it, though.
     
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  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Jabba, as a "point of honor" only speaks in Huttese (RoTJ novel), even if he's capable of understanding and speaking Basic - but when Prince Xizor demands he speak Basic in Shadows of the Empire, Jabba promptly complies.

    And in the Han Solo trilogy, Jabba is subordinate to his uncle/aunt.
     
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  8. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    For what it's worth, Vader was titled henchman in the recent Tarkin novel. But I think this whole discussion about naming conventions is a bit besides the point, personally.
     
  9. ATMachine

    ATMachine Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2007
    The question of "is Vader Tarkin's henchman or not?" really arises, I think, because in SW 1977 Tarkin is a stand-in of sorts for the off-screen Emperor, who was at that time conceived as a Nixonian bureaucrat, instead of a dark Force user.

    Tarkin and the bureaucrat-Emperor were both cogs in the mighty Imperial machine that was the true oppressor of planets. In fact, in the fourth-draft script, Tarkin openly states that his becoming Emperor himself is a legitimate possibility. This dovetails with the reference to "the later corrupt Emperors" in the SW 1977 novelization.

    Of course Vader was always meant to be the most memorable bad guy--he killed Luke's father, for Pete's sake. Tarkin, and even the Emperor as then conceived, could only pale in comparison. (Save for Peter Cushing's excellent acting.)

    Lucas must have sensed this problem, because when ESB rolled around ,he decided that the Emperor was a Sith sorcerer like Vader--an ancient man grown impossibly old through his mastery of the dark side. This new conception of the Emperor also harks back to the unseen character mentioned in the 1975 second draft: the Sith Master Prince Espaa Valorum, Vader's boss and implicitly the real power behind the Imperial throne.

    So the real change between films was not to Vader's own rank, but to rather the nature of the Empire itself and of its ruler(s).
     
  10. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Don't get me wrong, Vader's a henchman, or second-in-command, or whatever you want to call such a position - my point was that his importance to the narrative (usually in SW/ANH) is occasionally dismissed as result of his occupying this position, when his actual ranking is largely irrelevant, or deliberately contrary to his real importance in order to illustrate the folly and arrogance of the likes of Tarkin and Motti.

    In the case of the Imperial briefing, Vader's real power is emphasised in spite of his being regarded by the likes of Motti as little more than a hired gun. Yes, Tarkin orders Vader to release Motti and he does so, but there's always the lingering feeling that Vader wouldn't have done so if he actually wanted or needed Motti dead. He'd made his point well enough already.
     
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  11. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Exactly. I don't understand why fans are so hung-up about the in universe rank of someone. It doesn't really matter that much when you have a villain. Even small goons can be terribly frightening. Remember no country for old men? It doesn't matter who names himself boss of Chigurh. You give him a reason to kill you, he'll still blow your brains out.
     
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  12. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Henchmen would be all guys hanging around Jabbas Palace, i would say the Fetts were henchmen. Maul and Grevious may qualify as a henchmen.