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Lit "Her mother had been dead before Alderaan blew up, so wouldn't she be Queen already?"

Discussion in 'Literature' started by LelalMekha, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    I just thought that quote from Clerks: The Animated Series sums up my question pretty well. According to The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Queen Breha of Alderaan died at some point before Leia became a senator. By cross-checking various sources, it seems that she died at some point before 7 and 3 BBY. (The novel Scoundrels showed that Breha was still alive at the time of Leia's twelfth birthday, which occurred in 7 BBY, but she was absent from the events of Star Wars: Agent of the Empire: Hard Targets, the setting of which is 3 BBY. Therefore, Breha Organa must have died within the five-year period comprised between 7 and 3 BBY.)

    Still, the question is: if Breha had died prior to ANH, why isn't Leia the Queen of Alderaan? In my opinion, it was a bad idea, continuity-wise, to decree that Breha had passed away before the destruction of Alderaan. It creates a plot hole and directly contradicts a piece of early continuity (in the 53d issue of the Star Wars Marvel comics, Leia mused on Bail Organa's last moments: "It was night in our palace—were you awake or asleep, with Mother... or alone?")
     
  2. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 4, 2012
    Well if Bail was still king (or Viceroy, whatever) Leia wouldn't be called queen for a bunch of reasons. It might be seen as her encroaching on her fathers power, or might have a inadvertently... squicky connotation.
     
    TheRedBlade likes this.
  3. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Well no, If Leia was a queen she would have to act like it, and not go gallivanting around the galaxy with her hubby in a space caravan!
     
  4. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    Well, that would be fine if Bail Organa was indeed a King, but we still don't know what exactly a Viceroy is... Bail's father was a Viceroy too (per Dark Force Rising), his mother was a Queen, and yet... the ruler of Alderaan is his wife Breha, not him. Granted, in the old EU, it was pretty much established that the Viceroy was the leader of Alderaan, and thus a local word for "King." But then Episode III came out...
     
  5. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 5, 2004
    I've always thought Breha died before ANH, from when I first became a Star Wars fan in 1992. I don't know why, maybe because Leia never mentioned her mother in ANH, only her father, and that seemed weird to me?
     
  6. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    Well, it's true that Leia never mentioned her surrogate mother during the Galactic Civil War, not in the movies at least. But she still did once or twice in the EU, including a brief mention in James Kahn novelization of ROTJ: "She felt lonely here, in this forest of giants. All her life she’d lived among giants of her own people: her father, the great Senator Organa; her mother, then Minister of Education; her peers and friends, giants all..."
     
  7. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 5, 2004
    Isn't there also a mention in the EU about Leia being raised by her father and three aunts? I can't remember where that was from, but it must have colored my view of it.
     
  8. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    You are correct. Children of the Jedi firmly established that Leia was mainly reared by her father's sisters. But they may just have become much more involved in Leia's upbringing after Breha's passing, even though they were already there before.

    (BTW, the Alderaanians is one of my pet subjects, and I worked hard on making a featured article on Wookieepedia pertaining to one of Leia's aunts, Celly Organa.)
     
  9. krtmd

    krtmd Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 5, 2012
    Aren't they talked about in Children of the Jedi? I know they also appeared in a comic, because I've seen the picture of them fussing over Leia's hair, IIRC.

    ninja'd :p
     
  10. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Also she wasn’t of age yet, this isen't Naboo after all, Alderaani are somewhat more reasonable people.
     
  11. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    As noted in Rebel Dawn, the age of responsibility on both Corellia and Alderaan was set at 17. Leia was already an adult by 2 BBY.
     
  12. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    I still doubt it is old enough for her to be made head of state.
     
  13. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2012
    Well, even rela-life history has loads of young heads of state.
     
  14. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Also a question of how succession works with adoption, she might not actually be eligible to be made queen.
     
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Wasn't she still 18 in A New Hope? The novelization of ANH suggested Luke was 20 (therefore Leia would be as well) in that (and 23 in ESB) but later sources pushed it down to 21 in ESB and 18 in ANH.

    Revenge of the Sith was dated to 19 BBY- so Luke might have been a very old 18 in ANH- nearly 19.

    With her being 16, nearly 17, in 2 BBY.
     
  16. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 2, 2010
    Being the heir does not necessarily make you Queen. If TOR's description of Alderaanian politics still applies thousands of years in the future, than the Crown of Alderaan isn't bestowed directly, but is subject to a vaguely Holy Roman Empire style of voting to see who gets to be in charge.

    So it's possible that Breha dies in say 4 BBY and the noble houses simply haven't decided to bestow the crown on anybody yet, or that they gave it to Bail but simply kept referring to him by his previous title.
     
  17. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 5, 2004
    Isn't there a sufficiently convoluted backstory on the Alderaanian Royal Houses fighting each other over who gets to be King to explain a Viceroy-Queen couple with a child who would never inherit any title other than Princess?
     
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  18. King of Alsakan

    King of Alsakan Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 25, 2007
    Judging from the history laid out in the SWTOR, I would assume that Bail was the equivalent of the Prime Minister and that Breha was the Queen. After she died I would think the noble houses decided to give the crown to another Noble House. Princess Leia would then hold the noble title of Princess within the context of her own House. Just a guess.
     
    Starkeiller likes this.
  19. Darth Eddie

    Darth Eddie Jedi Master star 4

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    May 14, 2013
    The nature of royalties in the Star Wars universe are highly confusing and inconsistent and I kiiiiiinda sometimes ignore it.

    But I do think that "Leia, Queen of the Last Alderaanians" is one hell of a concept - in the sequel trilogy maybe?
     
  20. Starkeiller

    Starkeiller Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 5, 2004
    Perhaps as a result of the House of Organa's insurrectionist activities? [face_thinking] Ve-e-ery interesting.

    Do we know whether a significant number of Alderaanian royalty survived?

    It's a rather morbidly amusing notion to entertain, that Leia and 5 or 6 other people are the only ones who, by Alderaanian custom, are entitled to make decisions on matters of royal succession, and that they all stick to their titles. [face_laugh]
     
  21. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    The crown of Alderaan had changed from the time of the Galactic Great War and had passed into a hereditary mode of succession -- do recall the Alderaan Ascendency Contention. It established that the Viceroy was the constitutional monarch of Alderaan (recall that it was largely a symbolic position, as Alderaan was mainly a republic), and that the Viceroyship belonged to the House of Organa. However, to mend historical bruises, the Houses of Organa and Antilles were wed -- hence "Queen" Breha who had once merely been a teacher; she was queen consort to Bail Organa.

    Consequently, Her Royal Highness Leia Organa the Princess Royal would not be queen regnant until after her father passed. Since her father passed along with her realm, the title passed into abeyance and she took the role of a princess in pretence.
     
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  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Problem with that theory- Bail is always referred to as "Prince" not "King". The impression I got from that was that it was the other way round- Breha was the ruler and Bail the consort.

    If it was the Alderaan system, rather than just the planet, that they held sovereignty over- then it should be noted that Delaya was in the Alderaan system, and was not destroyed.

    It's also unclear as to when Breha got the job of Minister of Education.
     
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  23. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah, it's true that he never had the title of king -- but the whole ascendency contention only makes sense if the viceroy is the head of state, since Organa is the family which "won."
     
  24. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The Ascendency Contention was written about before the prequel movies came out though. Thus, Lucas's choice of Queen as Breha's title, might be because he doesn't know anything about it.
     
  25. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah, but this is Lit, we don't care about that. :p

    Not to mention that the contention had already been retconned after the prequels anyway, which is the only reason we know about the Antilles involvement.