ST Here are the new Villains of Star Wars: Episode VII (Spoiler)

It seems pretty obvious to me there's a huge difference between Force users calling attention to themselves and Force users hiding in exile. I'm not sure why it's a question. Do people think the Inquisitors have telepathic powers stronger than Palpatine? Why?

 

Well, possibly. I still think the Inquisitor will have no part to play in VII. The kid Ezra on the other hand? That's a possibility.

 

See, there's a hole there. Neither is Luke when Vader first senses the force is strong with him. He's just flying a starship down a trench in the Death Star. He doesn't start using the force until Ben tells him to. By all rights he either shouldn't have sensed Luke, or he should have sensed Leia.

Unless I'm remembering it out of order.

 

I don't think the Inquisitor will show up. I think the reason for his creation is a) Rebels needs a villain of the week that isn't Vader. b) They want to set up the idea of a new group of Imperials that didn't exist before but might now be playing a big part of the threat in the ST.

Vader says the force is strong with this one after Luke hears Ben for the first time.

 

Revisiting Palpatines scene in ESB, it's possible a 'Plan B' was created - if he foresaw Luke destroying both him and Vader.

 

Palps did like to cover all his bases. And who's to say Vader didn't too? If the PT (and TCW) taught us nothing else, it's that Sith like apprentices and even apprentices have their own endgame.

What I don't understand, and it's probably out there already - what is the difference between a Sith, and someone who uses the Dark Side. Is Ventress a Sith? She isn't is she?

 

The only difference between a Sith and a Dark Force user is the teachings they follow. A Dark Sider would use the dark side but not follow the teachings of the Sith. It's like the difference between religions. They all believe in a God, but everything else about their beliefs are different. It would be the same with someone that used the light side but wasn't a Jedi.

 

Ventress is an interesting case. Her main role was an assassin; a Dark Acolyte. Dooku might have viewed her as a potential apprentice, but there is no indication she was secretly being trained as a Sith. After all, she wasn't Darth Ventress. Therefore, IMO, Ventress is not a Sith.

Palpatine, Dooku and Maul were the only official Sith Lords during TCW

 

Thanks, Rabs. So once Palps and Vader are dead, Dark Siders wouldn't have to stick strictly to their teachings and MO unless they chose to (kind of in the way Krayt acts in Legacy I presume)?

Re Ventress. OK. So we have precedent of saber-wielding force-users who can match the Jedi toe to toe, but who aren't officially Sith (and yet who we never see in the PT films either yet no one seems to be complaining about this). Where would Savage Opress fit in to all this (bearing in mind all these elements are canon)?

 

That's my take on it. They could create an entirely different Dark Order or restructure the Sith Order. I'm hoping it's one of these two things that's happened.

 

I don't see a hole at all. Luke is using the Force intuitively as he's flying and keeping his ship from being shot down. Vader senses his ability to stay out of firing range. Hole???

In comparison, Leia never fights on the scale that Luke is when Vader confronts her. So no, why would Vader sense anything about Leia?

But I have to say that I find this kind of scrutiny of films made so long ago to be counterproductive and irrelevant. We already know Lucas wrote things as he went and changed things. Why would we expect absolute consistency with the old films?

Moving forward we should expect consistency. But that's because the Story Group is trying to be consistent now.

 

I believe it was director Kyle Newman who came up with the name - it isn't an official name.

I was wondering why EHT dragged me into the "Ham Solo" thing

 

I've always seen it like this: The difference between a Sith and a Dark Jedi is that a Sith is trained in the Darkside, and uses it like a Sith. They can Hate at will, for instance. Focus those particular emotions (the bad kind of Anger, Lust, Obsession, etc...) and achieve the result they want through training specifically in the Dark Side of the Force. A Dark Jedi just fell to the Darkside. They use it the same way a normal Jedi uses the force. Thus, a Sith will always be more dangerous.

 

I think what looking back at Ventress and Oppress shows is that the canon holds examples of non-Sith who are worthy foes for the most powerful Jedi and Sith in the galaxy. There is no real reason why any Jedi Hunters cannot be a similar match and indeed have become even more powerful after the death of the Emperor. If Luke has become so powerful (forget his midichlorian count), what's to stop others becoming powerful as well?

TBH I suspect that if the design, characterisation and performances of any new villains are great, no one will give a fig about their wookipedia backstory. They will just fill in the gaps and work out that sometime in the 30 years since ROTJ, some new bad guys have come on the scene.

 

Maybe Ezra survives beyond Rebels and becomes a Dark Sider? Maybe he's spent a lot of time on Moriband away from the rest of the conflict studying the Sith and the Dark Side all these years? And having learnt of the Emperor/Vader's demise has now appeared to play a central villainous part of the ST's story? Played by Max Von Sydow perhaps? A load of rubbish perhaps but you never know..

 

I don't think that's a complete impossibility. As you say, we never know!

 

Inquisitors were, in the EU, very powerful Force users - in terms of knowledge and usage.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitorius

Thanks. Yes, if the story group has drawn from this, I wouldn't be surprised at all. What's interesting is the idea that some Inquisitors are former Jedi that turned rather than face execution. Again, something that makes total sense to me.

Also good to see Inquisitor Jerec (go ret-con!) proving my point about design. My God he was a terrible character. Also note: ultra chrome armour http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ultrachrome

I'm curious - if it had been leaked months ago that the villains would be drawn from that concept as outlined in the Wook, would anyone be objecting too much? It seems fairly logical to me.

It seems as if the idea of the Inquisitor from Rebels showing up in VII has thrown people off on this one.

 

I've always speculated he might become Vader's apprentice. The whole inspiration for TFU series was a "what if?" Luke accepted Vader's offer at the end of ESB (the idea behind TFU is a very interesting read)

I don't think Ezra will be a Luke 2.0. Genuinely believe he will take an alternative path.

 

Almost got lost down the various rabbit holes on that Wook Inquisitors entry.

I do love the idea of Imperials excavating ancient Sith ruins (Moraband? Lost Valley of the Souls - sounds perfect for Kasdan) to uncover/ unleash some kind of ancient super weapon.

Kinberg has said they will draw from anywhere if they like the concept. I wonder which areas they might have drawn from.

I mean, it seems to me that if the Empire is still around, the logical inspiration for the "Jedi Hunters" might be a combination of the Inquisitors and the Emprerors Hands:

An Emperor's Hand, or Hand of the Emperor, was a Force-sensitiveoperative recruited, trained, and employed by Emperor Palpatine to perform missions that were impossible, secret, or both.

 

I agree, but I could also see it as different denominations of the same religion. The dark side is their god, but each denonmination has a different set of rules for practicing the religion.

 

Alright well, to be honest the only thing I'm not very happy with is these mentions of flashbacks. It's not a storytelling element that is part of the SW tradition - but then again, we're supposed to break new ground here, are we not? It may turn out very well. Still undecided about that.

The Inquisitor sounds alright and I don't think it waters down Vader's role or anything like that. First off, it's a huge galaxy and while Vader did hunt down most of the Jedi, it stands to reason that he would have additional agents to take care of some cases. For example, Vader could be tasked with hunting down Masters of higher rank and skill and not be bothered about lowly apprentices or such. The Inquisitor comes in here quite nicely. He can also be the guy who sniffs out random non-Jedi Force sensitives and brings them to Palpatine for training or just straight up murders them. The reason that no Inquisitors were involved in the search for Luke is quite obvious - Vader wanted to find him personally. Anyway, I think it's a cool idea.

 

No, Luke was using the Force when he was flying in the trench, whether it was consciously or not. And I also think that once you are made aware of the fact that you are Force sensitive, that is when you begin to look to it to help perform these kinds of feats. Flying a ship in hostile conditions would be such a feat. Once you open your heart to the Force and start believing in it, that's when it starts getting more involved in your life. So in other words, it does, whether you want to or not. Well, at least if you're a Force sensitive, that is.

At least that's how I see it, anyway.

 

Based on the description of Sith Jr (Cyborg lower jaw) Darth Malak is a good bet. And he was a way better character than Jerec

(Jerec was groanworthy, but not as bad as Tavion, loved the gameplay in Jedi Academy but the story was lousy)

To both of you: Fair enough.

But Ben had already started in on luke by the time Vader noticed the force in him anyway (As relayed by satipo, above), so the disagreement is moot. I just remembered it out of order.

 

HH - how would you feel about a Dagobah cave style vision featuring Vader?

I suspect that's more likely and LR linked "appearance of Vader" to "flashback to explain Inquisitor back-story" but didn't make that clear.

Oh, God yeah - Tavion. Yikes. Malak/ Malgus... sure, I can see that being a jumping off point even if I suspect they will go in a different direction if there is a cyborg ( I think there is but it's a different character to Driver's non-cyborg villain). TBH, Vader's agendas and rule of two/ apprentice angle from TFU might be reworkable as well. It makes sense to me that Vader would try and train an apprentice to help him take down Palpatine. Of course I would fully expect Vader to switch all focus onto Luke the second he knows of his existence. What I didn't like about TFU was how over-powered he was and the key role he played in founding the rebellion.