Oregon Here goes nothing, *hesitantly types* religion.

Discussion in 'Pacific Regional Discussion' started by Larena_Jade, Sep 24, 2003.

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  1. Larena_Jade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 4
  2. Angel5000 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Hey guys. So I'm from Oreogn but rarely post here and thought maybe i'd stop by.

    I haven't read this whole thread but I just wanted to throw in that I'm a Christian, I was raised in the denomination of Seventh-Day Adventist (if you konw what that is - I applaud you - many don't )and while I still hold some of our fundamental beliefs, I have basically broken off of the conservativeness of it all and am primarily non-denominational except of course for the few SDA beliefs. :)

  3. brook_33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 4
    i was raised catholic, but i'm now athiest.
  4. Atticus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    I'm a non-denominational Christian. I used to go to a Baptist church but then moved to Salem Alliance with my dad after my parents split-up. I then stopped going there because I had a hard time making friends at the youth groups. My only friend that went there was gone half the time and the other half he was hanging with his other friends that had nothing in common with me. They are into sports and I'm into useless pop-culture movie and Star Wars facts. They were jumping in line to hang out with me.

    Right now, I'm just a confused human being struggling through life and faith.
  5. crashdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    Continuing the topic from the other thread:

    I am a big supporter of missions. My wife?s family were missionaries in China and Africa. But I'm not sure if sending mission groups to Russia is a good thing or bad thing.

    Most Russians are already Christian. Even in the Soviet days many (if not most) Russians were still faithfull (although they were not able to worship in the open). Since the fall of the Soviet Block the Russian people have swarmed back to the Russian Orthodox Church.

    However, many Protestant (and Catholic) groups have sent missionaries to Russia to specifically convert Russians away from the Orthodox Church. Many Protestants believe that the Orthodox faith is not Christian. And because many Russians are in Awh of the West, they are easily tempted away from the Orthodox Church, thinking that everything Western is better.

    It is general well known that there is a much higher percentage of Russians who consider themselves Christian than Americans who consider themselves Christian. Why then are groups sending missionaries to Russia? I can only assume that it is to weaken the Orthodox Church in Russia.
  6. Larena_Jade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 4
    The truth is, we need God all over the world. Even right here in our home towns. Most people think they need to go to the other side of the world to the mission field, maybe because it's more exciting or maybe because they are more comfortable witnessing were nobody knows them. To some it just doesn't sink in that America is one of the biggest and most convieniant mission field, right in our backyard! I went to Russia for an internship, I am called anywhere God leads me. Through responce AND responcability. Responce to what He did on the cross for us, though no matter how much He loved us people still rejected Him. (who has seen The Passion? that movie rocks!*random)

    Everday we step out our front doors we are called to evangelize. Sadly most christians don't, they go through life not DOING anything. "Freely we have recieved, freely we must give." Some don't ever feel what it's like to be on fire for the Lord, or their fire dies. When we realize just a small fraction of how much God is passionately in love with us it just hits us up side the head one day and we are blown away.
    Christianity is not a religion or a "denomination", it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And we could never come to full knowledge just how crazy he is about us! When your in love you can't help but tell everyone, right? So THAT is why I cannot stand by and watch everyone miss out, go through their lives without knowing GOD LOVES THEM! God loves YOU! But there is a difference between knowing in your head and knowing in your heart.

    For me, I was in Russia because that's just where God called me for that time in my life. Now I'm back, I will contenue to be a light to those around me. Here in the USA. And THAT is true christianity, not that fake stuff that sadly sometimes even drives people away from God to seek devine reason somewhere else.

    P.S. Jesus is my homeboy, yeah.
  7. crashdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    Man.......Are you a Jesus Freak or what?

    You get right out there and walk the walk, and talk the talk.

    Sadly, for me, I tend to be very quite or neutral when it comes to talking about Jesus in public (other than on the Internet). I think most Christians are, which is even sadder.

    I give you credit for your fervor. And although (like the hidden politician you are) you did not really discuss the main point of my post, you made up for it through your "Faithful" response.

    I will now drop the subject.

    Cheers.

  8. Larena_Jade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 4
    Didn't you ask why teams are going to Russia? I told you why some are and then I told you why I was.
  9. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    Sorry but your post makes me rather nauseated, Larena. It's not you personally, it's your religion. You are, I am sure, a very nice girl. At least you seem very nice from what you post around here.

    I am not just atheist, I actively oppose Christianity. I believe it is the worst influence on humankind in the history of mistakes that we've had. I think that a certain type of person, a weaker type of person, needs religion to get through their daily lives. This is not an attack on people who do rely on this crutch, as it's very, in a way, intelligent of them to come up with a means to make their lives more enjoyable and more tolerable.

    However, the higher type of person, the more fully realized, well-constituted person, has no need for these external value-positing devices. The higher type of person defines his own values and his own morality in accordance with his goals [excuse the use of him, it's our English language that makes that happen].

    It isn't a sign of strength that you feel the need to believe that a deceased person really loves you, and that you are loved by some invisible, completely impossible to detect entity. Strength comes from someone who has no need for that type of crutch, who has a superabundance of power and energy, an aura about him that is beyond praise or blame.

    If you take offense to anything I say, well, I was going to write "I apologize," but I don't. If you have the right to express your religious views here on Christianity, I have just as much of a right to express my view that Christianity should be destroyed from this earth as quickly and as violently as possible so that this silly, dangerous, unbelievable hypocrisy finally stops its reign of terror over mankind.

    For more about what I think of Christianity, and the way I came to a lot of my conclusions and re-inforced my values, read Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche's books, especially The Anti-Christ, Beyond Good and Evil, and On the Genealogy of Morals.

    Nietzsche writes, ?The man of faith, the ?believer? of any sort, is necessarily a dependent man ? such a man cannot posit himself as a goal, nor can he find goals within himself. The ?believer? does not belong to himself; he can only be a means to an end; he must be used up; he needs some one to use him up. His instinct gives the highest honors to an ethic of self-effacement; he is prompted to embrace it by everything: his prudence, his experience, his vanity. Every sort of faith is in itself an evidence of self-effacement, of self-estrangement.?

    You may indeed be a means to an end, a tool of a God. In your mind. I, however, am my own goal, self-mastery is my pursuit, and I am nobody's tool. My values are self-created, after examining those of society and those that make sense, every value is questioned, and every value should be created, not taken from a Bible, not taken from parents, not taken from society. Values should be your own.

    As for an absolute morality or a Truth? There is none. There is your truth, there is my truth, and there are our opinions. No more. Your interpretation of reality is at best just one view, and at worse dellusion on a mass scale that is preventing you from realizing your full will to power.
  10. Larena_Jade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 4
    That's ok, you do have the right to your oppinion!

    "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes." Matt 11:25

    Even if you don't believe, Jesus loves you! :D
  11. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    Oh great, a cooky, crazy bearded guy who claims he's the son of a non-existent entity loves me. I'm really excited.

    I think I'm going to vommit.
  12. Atticus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Hey Bowen, if you're gonna spew, spew into this. [takes out dixie cup from pocket to hold up for Bowen]
  13. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    Thanks Atticus, you are a life-saver! ;)
  14. jedi078 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 1
    Maybe we should lock this thread out or something.

    There is too much hate and conflict going on here, as well as the fact that it has no relevance to Star Wars.

    Just my two cents worth people.
  15. Larena_Jade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 4
    I don't hate anyone. I am probably hated, but I don't return the hate. oh man, I hope you didn't think I was being sarcastic in my last post, I'm sorry. That's just how I am, I'm a drama queen and so when I'm happy I'm like :D
    lol.


    So, I am willing to keep the calmness. I don't really think I went all out and was like "YOU IDIOT YOUR WRONG AND I'M RIGHT! THAT'S FINAL!"
    I just said he has the right to his oppinion, and he does! :)


    I realize I wont be liked, I'm mean, Jesus obviously wasn't. They were so sick of what he had to say they killed him like a criminal, because it was natural for them to hate him. lol. I'm not looking for acceptance. This may sound a little weird but I just care for you, that's all. So hate me for loving you. It's ok.


    So are we ok? *holds out a hand for a peace shake
  16. crashdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    Good Point Jedi078 - we need to make this thread relevant to Star Wars.

    Here goes nothing:
    So, is the Force real? And if so, could it originate from God? Maybe Lucus has some Force Sense in him and can sense the reality of the Force. Maybe the Force is actually the holly spirit/ghost, and therefore....God?

    May arms are also wide open (in peace). Waiting for the rocks to be thrown.

    Cheers
  17. Larena_Jade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 4
  18. Atticus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Well since Jedi078 mentioned it, I'll post it.

    Oh great, a cooky, crazy bearded guy who claims he's the son of a non-existent entity loves me. I'm really excited.

    I thought this sounded like a combination of Ben Kenobi and Anakin.
  19. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    Hate is a really strong word to use, and probably a bad emotion to feel towards too many things, I mean after all hate leads to the dark side! hehe.

    I'm completely indifferent to religious people in general, and by that I mean that I feel that they need their religion for their lives, and I don't need it in mine, and there is plenty of room (and even *necessity*!) for both types of people. If the world only had people like me, I fail to see how it could function. The world cannot, for instance, be full of only leaders and nobody who is able to obey. Nietzsche argues that people should be capable of both leading and at a moment's notice obeying, when the time is appropriate, and I like that thought...

    In any case, to Star Wars.

    I'm taking a class now you guys/gals might be interested in called Film and Religion, it's philosophy 499 (special topics in philosophy). The lady teaching it is actually considered one of the leading Matrix scholars in the country. I know that sounds funny, but it's a small niche, and there is this upcoming 10-DVD set for the three Matrix films. She is one of three people (along with two friends) who provide commentary and analysis for a section apparently titled "The Matrix and Religion." She said she hasn't studied Star Wars much as far as religion goes, but we had a discussion on the first day how Star Wars is by definition a religion. Not the actual movies or their content, the phenomenon itself IS religion.

    In fact there is a book I bought for class titled Film As Religion where the author argues that film itself, all of film, is a replacement for religion today for many people. It provides certain rituals (attending theater, going to get DVDs, connecting a community, etc.), it provides values, and serves a lot of the same purposes for people who are searching for alternatives to organized religion. It's a fascinating argument and seems to be quite a good book.

    Essentially any major film franchise is religion, like Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, The Matrix, and probably most of all Star Wars. I do not mean to suggest that Star Wars is automatically superior to those other franchises, but The Matrix is new, Lord of the Rings has its die-hard supporters but far less than Star Wars. Most people in general just love LOTR because it's so great (and it is!), they aren't quite like Star Wars or Star Trek fans, they haven't had that level of devotion. And, then, factually Star Wars fans just outnumber Star Trek fans, so I'd say Star Wars is probably the leading alternative religion as far as film goes.

    I am not so sure that it's a conflict to be religious in two senses, either, like being Christian and being a Star Wars fan, these don't have to be mutually exclusive. Star Wars doesn't contradict or counteract Christianity, so I would find it compatible to consider Star Wars religion and also be Christian.

    Basically there is a tendency (an understandable one) to look at religion only as something with a God, or with a beyond, but these are not requirements for religion. Religion is not defined clearly, but it is certainly possible to make some definitions. Taoism is a religion without any belief in God or an afterlife. It's a way of thinking, it's a philosophy of life. In the case of Star Wars, it is a way that people gather together (like this forum) and form a bond with other people, and we all do have certain rituals, like how many of us watch the OT on some regular basis, or how many of you watch the OT on certain days? I know that I try to watch Star Wars on May 25, its anniversary. It's not superstituous but it is ritualistic. Most of us have something like this we do, whether it's to collect toys, or to watch the films regularly. As my religion/film teacher was explaining, the films themselves serve as the canon text, it's just film instead of writing.

    So this brings up obvious questions like, "Well if Star Wars is a religion, then isn't sports a religion too?" The answer, of course, is that absolutely sports can fulfill a religious roll. I think it's harder to justify s
  20. jedi078 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 1
    In all honestly, I am glad Bowen was able to make this a thread more about how Star Wars is like a religion then a thread specifically about religion.
  21. Kurt_Wagner846 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2003
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  22. Rickthetamer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2002
    star 1
    Nietzche is dead!

    I'm Christian. I was raised Catholic... and well... I'm still being raised Catholic, I'm only 14... but our family has never been very pious. I've created my own personal sect of Christianity that I will never impose on anyone else and will probably never contain anyone more than me, and I call Realism. The gist of it is, we (and be we, I mean me) understand that so much of the Bible is metaphorical in nature. Dan Brown wrote, "the Bible did not arrive by fax from heaven." It was written by man in a time where God and Science could not peacefully co-exist in our simple minds.

    God did not create our earth in seven days, God is a fourth-dimensional being to whom time is meaningless. At the beginning of time, through the mystical workings of God knows what (assuming He knows), God was created. When the planets and suns and what not formed up (assuming he didn't form some of them/most of them/ all of them himself) he took the time to create oceans, mountains, and life. So much of our science is based on things we can't entirely explain. Contintental Drift has been all but proven. I believe it. But no one can explain exactly WHY the plates are moving. Is God moving them? Is evolution just Darwin's crazy theory? No it isn't. Dinosaurs are REAL, people! You can't ignore it! The fossil record is not just a bunch of pretty patterns set in rock! But some of it is in favor of God's existence, not against it. About 500 million years ago, the amount of life on earth EXPLODED. No one knows why. A flick of God's wrist?

    And what about us? If we evolved to be the greatest things on earth, the most intelligent, why are our bodies defenseless? Because we are creators. Just like God, who made us in his own image. Our vestigial hairs and nails link us to evolution, God's tremendous experiment in which He created the millions of other species over whom we must rule.

    There's so much more for me to talk about, but I don't think you all would really read it.

  23. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    This thread is an appropriate place to mention something else exciting... maybe.

    In that film and religion class I mentioned above, which has been going quite well by the way (tough class, but I think I have the high grade and defintely an A), the professor and I have talked outside of class about film issues and whatnot. She knows I wrote a book on Star Wars and that I'm quite interested in film. To make a long story short, she had a colleague of hers ask if she wanted to co-author a Star Wars and religion book, and she said no because she doesn't really know much about Star Wars. She asked me if I would be interested. I was pretty surprised, but I said yes, of course, for sure. She sent this colleague another e-mail mentioning that she found someone who would be interested in co-authoring the project, he said he would be interested, and as it stands right now he is trying to find a publisher before proceding.

    So, I'm hoping that I'll get a chance to co-write a book, my third book but it would be my first published, and if so maybe I could finally eventually get my first Star Wars book to market. In any case it would be an exciting opportunity.
  24. Larena_Jade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2002
    star 4
    That's cool Bowen, good for yoU!
    I wish I could at least FINISH my books,lol, I have so many unfinished books I've written.
  25. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    Yes, finishing a book is a great accomplishment in and of itself even if the book goes nowhere. I just mean from a personal perspective, it feels great.

    I technically was never able to finish my 2nd book, because it lacked some interviews I needed, but I finished it in rough draft form at least. It wasn't really that great of a product in my estimation, though. It didn't have the same energy and passion and intrigue that my first book had, mainly because I loved that first book and it was on Star Wars, so I really was able to live and breath that book for years, actually. From when I begun research through when I found my agent years later.

    I haven't heard back yet on this current book project, but I'm in touch with my professor about any developments. She will tell me when there is progress.

    I do have another film writing project that is kind of exciting, though. My philosophy of art/aesthetics/film professor is working on a paper next term on film criticism and how critics evaluate movies and has asked me to be a research assistant on the project. I will only be paid minimum wage basically, $7 an hour for 3 hours per week, but it'll be $210 total for helping with research. I don't obviously care about the money ($210 for me is insignificant; unlike most college students, I'm far from broke, haha). But I'm just excited because first off I think the project will be fun and second I can add this to my graduate film school applications and my resume. It helps me a good deal for relatively minimal time investment and the money is just icing on the cake. I would have done it for free just because I need as much as possible on my applications for grad school, but the money isn't bad. I can use it for something I suppose, maybe expanding my DVD collection. ;)
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