PT Here!, Here!, To Grievous!!!!!!.

CIS Droid
Boba Fett is a stop-gap character, acting merely as a conduit between Vader and Jabba. And his behaviour and the way he is presented indicates he is more of a threat. He's not first seen coughing.
GG may have kidnapped Palpatine, but that's character through exposition. I mentioned in an earlier post that from the way Grievous is presented it seems nearly absurd that he could have kidnapped the chancellor. So therein lies the difference. Fett is presented in a way that doesn't diminish his reputation while Grievous is.

 

So coughing = not a threat, or not cunning? How?

Whats shown on screen indicates he´s not a threat, seeing that he after tracking the falcon lets Vader do the dirty work of capturing them, then only stands around, points his gun, fires one shot at luke, then gets defeated by a blind man

 

CIS Droid. Damn you're quick.
Not when it's combined with his behaviour and impotent actions. He seems like a sickly old man. I'm more saying first impressions count.
When we first see Darth Vader he storms through the door, chokes somebody to death and starts shouting. This guy is mean and means business.
When we first see GG he is coughing and walking slowly in hunched posture with an undignified clanking. He doesn't come across as a dangerous villain.

Edit: I forgot to say that part of Fett's character is through his dialogue. He's needly but concise and doesn't come across as ridiculous. And I've seen many people say that his death in RotJ was ill-fitting for his character. Take from it what you will.

 

Thanks

I mean, fair enough, but how does that translate into being unable of launching an attack on Coruscant?

In my opinion having Grievous slowly walking and in a hunched position makes his four arm reveal on Utapau better

 

He never comes across as being intelligent and sly enough to perform such a feat. You'd think Palatine's guards and Jedi and whatever would rather notice a seven-foot tall asthmatic. There's too much unexplained in the film for the scenario to seem plausible, unless you watched CW (which would have been a minority of the audience).

 

He doesnt really come across as non intelligent either, we dont see much of his tactical mind in the movie. But when Grievous reveals his four arms, and shows that he´s more agile than whats lead to belive from the beginning on the invisible hand, it should be belivable enough for the audience

And going back to Boba Fett, having a cool voice and given good dialogue doesnt matter, what he does on screen doesnt make him out to be a threat.

 

What I've been saying. Where are his supposed qualities in the movie? You cannot make a character through a line in the opening crawl and a small amount of exposition.

I'd like to point out that I think these issues could have been solved with better writing and having Ep I start where Ep II does. There's more than three films worth of potential material in Ep II and III, and I don't think that TPM is essential to the succeeding two films.

 

Im really tired right now, so this is my last reply for the day.

If more time was available Grievous could have come across as more threatening, i agree. I personally think that because RotS focus on so many things giving Grievous more qualites wasnt something they had time for, and having Palpatine as the main villain makes this okay.

Having one more episode would be nice, but as a fan of TPM i would rather they make TPM episode 0, AotC episode 1 and so on.

 

CIS Droid Goodnight! I'm on the other side of the world so yeah, that makes things interesting.
I don't have a problem with you liking TPM, although I'm not a fan, but it's good to see we agree that lack of time didn't help the secondary characters.
I actually think the flatness of Dooku is worse, as his motives would be quite interesting to know (in the films).

I will take the opportunity to at last say something positive and point out the things I do like about GG from RotS.
I think that he is the best piece of design to come out of the Prequels. Most of the other non-human characters were like aliens or were in other ways humanoid. It was a bit of a risk creating a mechanical design but they really nailed. Every detail was really well done, and the end result looked very realistic, helped by RotS having the best effects of the prequels (the march of technology).
He was a really stunning design, who looked powerful (even if he wasn't) and had a real uniqueness to him. And his movements were very realistic even if not particularly dignified at point . It's very easy to imagine him being real. And I liked the way they gave him expression through his eyes. *They* say that the eyes are the windows to the soul and it's very true with Grievous. If you look in the film and on TCW there's been a lot of work put into where he is looking and how, and it gives really marked expressions. I also liked how his movements and gestures reflected his thoughts. There's a small moment on Utapau when Obi-wan is trying to tear open his armour. When GG realises he is doing this his eyes widen and he throws his ear-pieces back. It's a very human moment in a series of films full of people acting completely unnaturally. In some ways he seems more human than many of the human characters.

But I just love striking his design is, I would even go as far to say graceful at points. He's just such a great looking character, and instantly identifiable.

 

Oh, I do also like Grievous to the point where I will try avoid watching his death scene wherever possible, because I find it so depressing. It is also terribly undignified, and makes me dislike the Jedi in general and Obi-wan in particular even more than I may have already (which is why I do not mentally connect P.T. and O.T. Obi-wan, because I refuse to associate Alec Guinness' character with the [can't write this] I see in R.O.T.S.).

It is best described by Rifftrax:

As I said before, "he deserved better!"

 

Warren Moonwalker
Sorry for not bringing this up earlier, but I did notice your mention of how you would like a story in which Grievous finds out about the truth behind his transformation and defects. Well reading the 'What's GG's backstory? thread got me thinking.
Some time ago a read a story in which the first part of that happens. Or part of a story, which you may or may not have read. It's called 'The Essences of Life' on FanFiction.net and is a long and reasonably well written (although with many derived names) story detailing tenuous relationship between GG and a human physician who helps to recover his memories and eventually leads to him discovering the truth about what happened to him. Unfortunately the story was abandoned right on the main turning point, so we don't know how he reacts. But I think you may be interested it if you want that sort of story.
(I don't see how you can write 137,000 words and then give up on the main crisis point. C'mon, I want the rest!)

 

I liked Grievous. He's a good precursor to Vader. Some people could legitimately think Vader is a droid ala Grievous, given the two blur the boundaries between human and machine.

 

Ooh. Now not watching is going too far in fan-boyish, but that particular death scene does make me cringe. It's Star Wars, so we can't have much blood (even though he's been shot in the heart) so we need to make this as OTT as possible. Having him clutching himself and collapsing on the ground creaming would have been much better. And yes, I agree Obi-wan isn't a very likeable character in the PT. Has nothing of the warmth his original character had.

Speaking of dignity, it is one thing I have noticed about Grievous. He has almost none. In the film he gets walked over on his own ship, he gets his hands cut off and dies... weirdly. In TCW he is constantly berated by Dooku for things that aren't his fault, gets Jedi lead into his own residence by Dooku, gets his legs pulled off, and has a condescending doctor (who gets killed anyway). He seems impotent, although is a better fighter, and things never seem to go his way.
Even Jar Jar gets some redemption and dignity in the end, but Grievous never does.

Oh, and then there's 4/4 of TCW. This cartoon would be funny if it wasn't true. Getting captured by the most annoying race in Star Wars? ugh.
And it's the way it happens too. After getting spears stuck through all his joints (ah, how 200 B.C.) I'm surprised he wasn't screaming more, although his 'noes' are some of the more genuine sounding in the series. Oh, and good electricity ex machina. I suppose the episode was supposed to make us like the Gungans, but I only had sympathy for one character and it wasn't Tarpals. when he is shown in the thingumy (Gungan pillory, if you will) when they do the prisoner swap near the end, well that might be the least dignified moment in all of Star Wars.

His life seems so controlled and joyless that I think this picture and derived story bring a much more fitting closure to his character than what happened in Revenge of the Sith.

PS
Lastly, so much for my attempt above to bring a more positive spin to the thread
It's much easier being angry. If I had the force I'd probably be a Sith

PPS: It's 11:26 pm. Good Night

 

I think Grievous got stronger then Dooku during TCW. It was by ROTSA that he was almost as strong as Kenobi. Kenobi barely won. A few for seconds and he'd LOSE! And considering how Kenobi is much stronger then Anakin before his boost in ROTS, I'd bet money he'd wreck Anakin too. I think the only of the Jedi that can beat Grievous at his prime is Sidious. Grievous was really under powered and under used in TCW 3D TV show. I keep saying it, and I won't stop. Marvel needs to make a Grievous comic series. We keep hearing of all is kills, I want to SEE them. And good kills, not the stupid ones he got in TCW, I mean him legitimately winning, not using magna gaurds or a gun in a lightsaber fight with a barely knight level student of Fisto.

 

KaleeshEyes Its not your fault, Grievous threads does most of the time end up negative, its almost like its impossible to have a Grievous thread end up positive

 

They end up like his character depiction. One long slide...
I noticed there is no fan thread for him, because it was shut in 2014. It seems that things got out of hand.

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!
We want a character built through action, not exposition.
Not sure a comic series would sell these days though. It's been a decade since RotS, and TCW's also ended.

 

Thats a shame, Grievous deserves a fan thread of his own.

 

There´s still Star Wars comics getting released, for example when TCW got cancelled they turned a Darth Maul arc into a comic called Son of Dathomir. Grievous was in that and he was great.

 

But it didn't focus on him, and the timeline for Son of Dathomir already existed. You'd have to write a new story for Grievous. Of course there would be an inevitable argument over canonicity, not that it really would matter.

 

Yeah, I also think he's underrated, particularly by people who hate the relatively new version of TCW. I thought he was fantastic in ROTS, at least. There was no way he could've lived up to his appearance in the 2003 Clone Wars show, anyway.

 

I have thought about starting one, but it would more end up a discussion thread like this (hopefully a little more positive) and I don't know if I can do that.
Plus I couldn't come up with a good enough pun for the title.

 

Yeah, it would probably end up really negative. But if you do come up with a punny enough title then its atleast worth a shot to make a new Grievous fan thread

 

I suppose it depends on what kind of negative. A nuanced discussion about his character presentation like this thread would be alright, and it can be swung to being more positive, But I think the old thread was full of "Grievous sucks maaaan. He's the worst thing they ever did maaaan" sort of posts.

 

As long as the discussion is civilized its fine