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Hidden meanings and messages in Palpatine lines throughout the Saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by mandragora, Nov 12, 2005.

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  1. xx_Anakin_xx

    xx_Anakin_xx Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 9, 2008
    Yes, that is a good line indicating his doubt - but also there is the line just before that where he reveals that he did not 'sense Luke'. Sidious had to wonder why that might be. Either he thought Vader was wrong (and thus he would doubt Vader) or he thought Vader was right - which could still lead to his doubting Vader because he would figure that Vader was sensing him due to some connection to the force that was not entirely at one with the dark side. That is, it was distinct with all of the dark side sensing that Sidious was using. Although, Sidious could have merely concluded that their father-son connection was the reason, having nothing to do with light/dark side at all. But I do think that Sidious was smart enough to realize that Vader had problems from the start right through the end in his ability to totally get rid of the Jedi inside. You have to imagine that if it really did exist - even a spark - there would be moments when Sidious would suspect it.

    You know in the movie, one would surmise that Vader found out about his son from Sidious. But in the novels, Vader already knows about Luke. The latter makes more sense because of course Vader would want to know who the force sensitive kid was who had taken out the death star. But I don't know if that is Lucas intended when it came to the movie because he has Vader say "but that is impossible!"
  2. mandragora

    mandragora Jedi Master star 4

    May 28, 2005
    One should think so. In that case, however, Sidious' actions only make sense if one assumes that he was completely convinced he'd be able to turn Luke to the dark side. Otherwise he'd be taking an awful risk, considering the possibility that Vader and Luke might team up against him.

    I've always thought that this was an attempt at tricking Sidious on the part of Vader - trying to conceal his connection with Luke. Futile, of course, since Sidious already knew,as we've seen.
  3. skgai1

    skgai1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Nov 1, 2005
    I'm bring this up from I think June because I've returned to The When MisterVader said "you mentioned WALKING," a light bulb went off inside my head. Cryogenic and others have routinely pointed out that Palpatine sits almost throughout the entire trilogy. He does this because I think Lucas finds it interesting that someone can have so much power from just a chair. I too find that interesting. But also he sits because he's confident. He knows what did happen, what's happening and what will happen. It's all been methodically thought out and planned. He also sits because he has power and power corrupts. "Why walk, I'll have a page bring it to me?" "Why go there, he'll come see me." Those aren't something Palpatine would say, but I think that's the message. Anyways, all this made me ask the question "what motivates him to walk in the select few scenes he does?

    For starters here are the scenes he does walk in.

    The ones mentioned, Talking to Anakin in his office in AOTC and ROTS.
    To fight Yoda in ROTS.
    To fight Mace and other Jedi in ROTS.
    To find Anakin on Mustafar.
    To walk Anakin to the medical facility after Mustafar.
    To be there when Anakin "awake's" in the medical chamber in ROTS.
    To congrulate the victory on Naboo in TPM.
    Does he walk in TPM when he's talking to Grievous on that walking machine or does he stand and the machine walks for him? I'll have to look again.
    None in ESB
    To discuss with Vader his plans on the Death Star in ROTJ.
    To kill Luke in ROTJ.

    So he actually walks quite a few times, but I think they're still all for a reason. He seems to only walk when the future is blurry. When perhaps things did not go as planned. And he certainly only walks when he's actively try to get things the way he wants. He usually only walks when something not going correctly. So what does that say? That you have to work hard to get what you want and that you can't become lazy and all-powerful. Because that's exactly what happens in the classic trilogy. In ESB he brings up Luke for the first time with Vader, confident that Vader and turn him to the Dark Side. In ROTJ he sits on his throne to talk to Vader only after he summoned him to meet him. "He will come to me." He is so confident that Luke will do just as Vader did. He walked in ROTJ when he arrived to the Death Star to get news from Vader, but it was good news. This one is an anomaly in my theory. But he does actually walk from a chair (spaceship) to chair (throne). I mean he has to get there somehow!

    But the telling one is when he gets up to kill Luke. Something's gone wrong. This wasn't plan. Luke was supposed to turn. But that didn't happen and Palpatine was forced to get up and deal with the situation. But it was too late. He had spent all his time being confident, but never actually actively getting things done, like he had done with Vader. He was also working on Vader, but then he stopped and Vader turned on him. He never worked on Luke (while walking) and he never turned him to the Dark Side. This is just interesting to me because yet again its a perfect visual representation of what's going on in someone's head. That's why I love these films because Lucas do
  4. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Jul 2, 2004
    Grievous is not in TPM. However, Palpatine does walk when he's talking to Maul on Coruscant.
  5. skgai1

    skgai1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Nov 1, 2005
    Grievous! I meant Gunray of course. Good addition though. Again Palpatine is actively trying to get his way when he talks to Maul.
  6. PalpatineAntikristos

    PalpatineAntikristos Jedi Youngling star 3

    Oct 6, 2002
    The Emperor walks towards Yoda in ROTS after he's electrocuted him, in a moment of glee. Rather than gloat, he could have obliterated him then. That's a moment of overconfidence, foreshadowing his similar encounter with Luke, when Luke is also seemingly weak.
  7. skgai1

    skgai1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Nov 1, 2005
    Good point and interesting name PalpatineAntikristos. Palpatine just reeks of overconfidence throughout the saga. It makes him a great villain. Really, what's a good villain if they're a coward?
  8. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Jul 20, 2005
    Specifically, he leaves his SEAT OF POWER to attack and gloat over Yoda, just like he leaves his seat of power to attack and gloat over Luke. In both instances, he's playing a dangerous game. Yoda even flings him backwards, implying that Palpatine can have his power, if he deserves it. That's what the ensuing fight is all about and that's why Yoda walks away. Palpatine's victory here could be one of the things that bolsters his confidence some 20+ years later against Luke.
  9. skgai1

    skgai1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Nov 1, 2005
    Well articulated Cryogenic. But why would Yoda feel like he couldn't have destroyed Palpatine's new power while he thought Luke could. He knew then and there that overconfidence was Palpatine's weakness. Did he just not know how to use that against him yet? I'm completely convinced that Yoda was quite confident himself when he walked into that chamber that Palpatine's "reign is at an end, and not soon enough it was." I don't think that he symbolically said that Palpatine could have his power. I think Yoda meant just what he said, "your reign is over." I think after he's electrocuted he's realized how powerful Palpatine has become and that he must be stopped. He doesn't want Palpatine to have his power. I do agree that Palpatine leaving his SEAT OF POWER helped Yoda understand his weakness and he exploited that with Luke in ROTJ.
  10. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 17, 2006
    Yes, but Yoda actually throws Palpatine INTO HIS CHAIR, knocking it over. So apt.=D=
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