Hiding Evidence, or Thin-Skinned Administrators

Kyle said:

"or are you trying to conform to the popular opinion of whatever group or clique you and others consider yourselves a part of???"

Sorry, Kyle. Go back and look at YTAP's list of people who have spoken out for an administrative solution. There's 46 of them when I reposted it a page or two back. Go read it carefully, and then I challenge you to pick out one single group or clique.

 

Darth Ludicrous: Your attempt to sum up over 700 posts, including many with very intelligent and well-reasoned discussion, into a mob of vengeful wannabe admins screaming for Lord Chewy's blood is simply not going to work. All anyone need do is read. I see no one using incendiary or spiteful language except those trying to stagnate or dismiss the issue.

And what now? If we cannot blame an issue on a clique, we will blame it on ALL the cliques?! This is ridiculous. If this were about inter-clique politics, well, I'd be doing whatever I could to distance my point of view from Darth Eric, Vertical, Senator D.A., etc. Au contraire, I am almost in total agreement with everything they've said.

How many posts, how many pages, how many more names (that list, JMA, hasn't been updated for at least fifteen pages) must be added before you admins will acknowledge that THERE IS AN ISSUE HERE?

 

What they both said. On the list posted, there are: Slackers, bashers, gushers, rebellioners, Bar and Grillers, and that's just the one's I know. I said it before, to make statments like that can almost prove that you DID NOT read the entire thread. There people on this side of the issue who normally would never agree with a thing the other says. People who know who I am on EZbaords, no that I have never agreed with Shar Kida, but here I am, agreeing with him, and saying: "What Shar Kida" said. This is not a popularity thing, or an got passed over for admin thing. This is a lot of people who are disapointed in the way that a couple of administrators have treated the members of this forum.

 

Here's what I think about the various issues mentioned here:

1) Non-admins using an administrator's account to perform admin duties.

The members should be at the very least informed prior to this in any case, if not consulted. Sometimes this IS necessary - not as much now that we have a far larger admin team. But no, there shouldn't be any coverups.

2) The deletion of epic's thread.

I don't think there's a point in bringing about any conspiracy theories here. Sure, with many of them you can neither prove nor disprove them - but with the evidence I'VE accumulated, I can say it's pretty damn certain that it was indeed a miscommunication between DL and LC, and that LC got the wrong idea re: which thread DL wanted deleted.

"I want proof, not leads." And that applies to both sides of the argument. So far, "proof" is in favor of what appears to be the truth - as in, what DL has said about this.

3) Whether or not LC should remain in power.

Yes, she should. Why am I saying this? Well, it's because... we need all the hands we can get. LC is particularly quick with the troll cleanups every now and then when called for. And with this "vacation" of hers - I say she should hold to it, but if there's a troll problem and no other admin is taking care of it, she has every right to breach the vacation to take care of the troll in question. But otherwise, yes, she should continue what she's doing now, with posting under an unrelated non-admin alias.

If there was a massive anti-LC upheaval, let's say, a mass petition or something - would I actively DEFEND LC? Probably not, if the members causing the said upheaval were convincing enough - especially because many of the points are indeed justified. However, the magnitude isn't great enough to call for demotion or whatnot.

Right now I don't see any reason to demote LC, and nothing that has been presented on this thread justifies it. I think this vacation thing is working out okay, and we'll see what happens when she returns.

4) Whether or not this thread should continue.

Damn right it should. This IS an issue and must be resolved in one way or another. The worst thing we can do is ignore this and let it sink with the loose ends still untied.

 

Okay. I have been requested by others, YET AGAIN, to clarify my opinion here and respond to piles of PMs and ICQ messages regarding my previous posts.

1) Froggy's unbanning.

LC, PB and DL did NOT unban him. No conspiracy theories there, please.

2) Why I'm posting in this thread.

It's in response to the request for more admin involvement around here - well, it was more of a suspicious "notice the lack of admins posting here" kind of statement.

Now that I've posted on this thread, both sides are nagging at me to take a definite side. Well, I'll say right now, for clarity, that I posted here because I wanted you all to know I'm not ignoring the issue. That is it.

Would you rather have me ignore it?

3) Which "side" I'm taking.

Neutral. Sheesh, people. Just because I posted here, period, I have people from both sides of the argument saying I "secretly" support the other side, or something along those lines. Both "sides" of this argument are saying I'm posting to appease to them, while leaving a hole open for me to bash them from the P.O.V. of the other side.

I'll say it again. NEUTRAL. I am not "vaguely" on either side of this. I'm only here so you guys who keep contacting me about this know I'm reading this and not ignoring it. Perhaps that wasn't the wisest decision, then, because of my lack of information going into this issue.

And furthermore, I haven't seen this yet but I don't want ANYBODY on this thread to quote anything I say around here and say, "see? an ADMIN said that!" or something like that. Right now I'm in the process of finding as many FACTS (note, FACTS, NOT theories) as I can from either side of the argument. But the way it looks, because I missed this issue, I may end up ignoring this thread (or just abstain from participating) after all.

Now I shall return to maintaining order back in the Star Wars-related forums, which are really the reason why we're all here in the first place. If anyone wants me to even take a passing glance at this thread again, you'll have to contact me separately.

 

If nothing else, this issue has brought people together. Look at me for example.

I always thought Shar Kida was somewhat pompous. Turns out he's a thoughtful poster, with a carefully worded style of writing.

I looked at epic as a sort of a goody-two-shoes. But he spoke out for himself with honesty and diplomacy and I consider him a friend now.

I didn't know much about Iron Parrot and Vertical. I assumed they were chosen to be admins because it was thought that they wouldn't make waves. They proved me way wrong. In two weeks Vertical showed me that he's the best admin in the JC. And Iron Parrot showed me a couple brass ones with that above post.

Crystena77....I still don't care for her very much.

Many others who I didn't know or didn't have an opinion on have gained my respect with the style and tenacity in which they presented their arguements.

In the last incident I was made to look like the lone troublemaker for speaking out. This time I'm a mere bit player, as the number of members and admins who decided to speak for themselves has grown exponentially. You all have my respect, and to paraphrase Kirk from ST3, I hope to hang out with you in the future, in whatever board we end up posting.

 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

That's absolutely right Froggy. We are fighting for the needs of the many, all the members of this board, and that certainly outweighs the needs of the few, the administration. Most of us weren't directly involved in the incident and it really had no effect on us, but we realize that if it continues it will have an effect on all of us. If you are protecting the needs of the admins, Froggy, then you are protecting the needs of the few.

 

He's not really dead. As long as we remember him.

 

I agree with Iron Parrot in this case. I agree wholeheartedly that there is a problem. And sweeping it under the rug will only abate it til it happens again.

I think it possible that there was a miscommunication when it came to the deletion of epic's thread. Something similar happened to me,with me being in LC's position. And if I told you the whole story, you would probably be like, "Yeah right," and dismiss me as a liar too. So having been in that position I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

Does LC deserve to be demoted? I don't think that's the answer. That is curing a symptom not a problem.

The overall attitude that we are all whiners who are part of cliques that want to make names for ourselves. Nope, sorry I don't buy that.

And I am SURE that this will have to happen again with a much LOUDER outcry by the members before someone sees that it is not a fluke reaction to a situation. That members do not appreciate being told that they are children, that they are brats, that they needs higher IQs, that they are stupid, that it does not matter if THEIR feelings are hurt; but do not hurt MINE as an admin, that our opinions do not matter.

Until you see that its the ATTITUDE and not necessarily the deletion of a thread that is the problem, nothing is going to change.

Oh and Padme Bra- I don't care for you either.

 

Ah Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb that tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It is very cold in space.

 

And your point is....

 

Khan... Khan, you've got Genesis, but you don't have me. You were going to kill me, Khan. You're gonna have to come down here. You're gonna have to come down here.

 

No more Star Trek please - it's making me feel ill

 

This is a Star Trek board, that's what we're here to discuss. I think sometimes people forget that.

 

Oh, in that case...

[logs off permanently]

 

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't "Froggy's" posts be considered spam?

 

Legal's posts are designed to throw this thread off track.

 

None of the people complaining in this thread seem to have genuinely expressed their true motivations for posting here. Just what do you all want to come about from this thread, do you want this to become a campaign for you to be an admin like some of you already have tried to do here? Try to bring down someone you don't particularly care for?? Or are you truly concerned with these perceived "injustices" which have been blown out of proportion???

 

'None of the people complaining in this thread seem to have genuinely expressed their true motivations for posting here'

Have you actually read any of these posts? Try it.

 

I've read the whole thread in it's entirety and most of it is people who want LC demoted, banned, or to just make her look bad. Few have any idea of just what exactly went on here and how small it was.

 

Kyle there's only one person here who appears to be campaigning for admin.

 

Look deeper

 

Actually, Padme Bra, there appear to be several people who are using this thread to campaign for themselves.

I know for a fact that one person who has posted frequently in this thread and elsewhere has campaigned directly to several members of the TFN staff via email to make him/herself an admin.

I also know that someone else who was under consideration to be an admin has really done themself a disservice by dragging themself and others into this mess when they didn't already need to become involved.

I could go on, but I feel that I've sufficiently made my point.

 

I didn't realize the reason for Preacherboy's demotion was a big secret. I was involved in that 'fateful' thread, and to tell you the truth, it wasn't that big of a deal.

In brief, Admiral Maciejewski posted a thread in August, '99, in which he complained that Preacherboy was ignoring him and hadn't forgiven him. The thread goes along normally, but then, after a few replies, Admiral Maciejewski posts a couple of his own private ICQ discussions, the jist of which make Admiral Maciejewski himself look bad. But then it turns out it wasn't the real Admiral Maciejewski who posted those messages, but an imposter with a user name that looks identical to that of the Admiral's. The real Admiral Maciejewski freaks out, and begins complaining that someone is posting with the same alias as him, all hell breaks loose, and Preacherboy eventually locks the thread. But Preacherboy should have deleted it, because it turns out that it was Preacherboy himself (and Son of a Hutt, I think) who did a little hacking and computer wizardy to get an alias identical to that of Admiral Maciejewski's so he could post those ICQ messages to make the Admiral look bad. And that, as far as I know, was why Preacherboy was demoted.


And if I do start a thread entitled "The Second Annual Jedi Council Conference", the first invited speaker would be Preacherboy. His topic?

"Being Admiral Maciejewski."
-- Preacherboy