Amph Hindsight is 20-20: Oscar Ceremonies of the Past (Disc. 1977)

Rogue, I'm so happy you have this thread. I was just thinking yesterday that discussing the snubs was fun, but they were all acting snubs and I wish we had a thread that was more broad. So yay This year is the first one I've really had anything to say in, so here goes:


BEST PICTURE

Becket
Dr. Strangelove: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Mary Poppins
My Fair Lady - WINNER
Zorba the Greek

No doubt for overall I'd go with Strangelove, even though My Fair Lady is very good and also one of my favourites. Well Strangelove's one of my favourites, too, but it's the more outstanding film overall.


BEST DIRECTOR

Michael Cacoyannis - Zorba the Greek
George Cukor - My Fair Lady - WINNER
Peter Glenville - Becket
Stanley Kubrick - Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Robert Stevenson - Mary Poppins

A lot of people are going to be tempted to say Kubrick just because he's Kubrick and no one remembers Cukor, but I actually would probably go with Cukor in this instance. My reasoning is that turning a stage play into a film is a really, really difficult thing to do without making it really awkward or just making it seem like a play being filmed. Kubrick's work here is great, of course, but I think Cukor had a particularly difficult task and pulled it off about as well as I've ever seen anyone do.


BEST ACTOR

Richard Burton - Becket
Rex Harrison - My Fair Lady - WINNER
Peter O'Toole - Becket
Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Anthony Quinn - Zorba the Greek

Sellers is absolutely hillarious, but let's be fair- creating three hillarious but flat characters is ultimately less noteworthy than creating one hillarious and complex character. Harrison had done it on stage, but was good enough to translate that to film. This included insisting on having his "talking on pitch" (not singing, but so much more appropriate for the character anyway) recorded live on set via a microphone attached to his clothing. This was a revolution at the time and thank goodness he did it... Anyway, Henry Higgins is just a delightful character and I can't imagine anyone but Harrison in the role.


BEST ACTRESS

Julie Andrews - Mary Poppins - WINNER
Anne Bancroft - The Pumpkin Eater
Sophia Loren - Marriage, Italian Style
Debbie Reynolds - The Unsinkable Molly Brown
Kim Stanley - Seance on a Wet Afternoon

I've only seen Mary Poppins, which Andrews is fun in, but it's not exactly what you'd call a complex character...


BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR

John Gielgud - Becket
Stanley Holloway - My Fair Lady
Edmond O'Brien - Seven Days in May
Lee Tracy - The Best Man
Peter Ustinov - Topkapi - WINNER

I agree with Rogue on this one- George C. Scott was snubbed, possibly due to his then recent public clashes with the Academy. Or the fact that they just missed how hillarious he was, which makes them fuddy duddies


BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS

Gladys Cooper - My Fair Lady
Edith Evans - The Chalk Garden
Grayson Hall - The Night of the Iguana
Lila Kedrova - Zorba the Greek - WINNER
Agnes Moorehead - Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte

Here again I've only seen My Fair Lady, and Gladys Cooper's role is fun but too small in my opinion to really count.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

YEAR: 1974 (and a great year it was)

BEST PICTURE

Chinatown
The Conversation
The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Lenny
The Towering Inferno

Chinatown? The Godfather, Part II? Flip a freaking coin; there is no other way to even begin to choose between these two. One wonders what The Towering Inferno is doing there . . .

BEST ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE

Art Carney - Harry and Tonto - WINNER
Albert Finney - Murder on the Orient Express
Dustin Hoffman - Lenny
Jack Nicholson - Chinatown
The Godfather, Part II - Al Pacino

In the old Oscar thread, Zaz, I think had it figured. Nicholson and Pacino split the vote, giving Carney the win. Again, flip a coin; it was over this year that Zaz said when Pacino and Nicholson are both nominated you could vote for either one and not be wrong. He's dead right there.

Seriously though, did anyone watch Murder on the Orient Express. Worst. Poirot. Ever.

BEST ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE

Ellen Burstyn - Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore - WINNER
Diahann Carroll - Claudine
Faye Dunaway - Chinatown
Valerie Perinne - Lenny
Gena Rowlands - A Woman Under the Influence

Okay, it's official . . . these guys were way big fans of Lenny Bruce. Only seen Chinatown.

BEST DIRECTOR

John Cassavetes - A Woman Under the Influence
Francis Ford Coppola - The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Bob Fosse - Lenny
Roman Polanksi - Chinatown
Francois Truffaut - La Nuit Americaine

Fosse is always interesting, as is Truffaut, but I think Polanski actually deserved this win. Though Coppola has the strength of not just Godfather II but also The Conversation.

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR

Fred Astaire - The Towering Inferno
Jeff Bridges - Thunderbolt and Lightfoot
Robert De Niro - The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Michael V. Gazzo - The Godfather, Part II
Lee Strasberg - The Godfather, Part II

Okay, we talked about this in the snubs thread, but John Cazale, one of the great unsung heros of seventies cinema was better than both Gazzo and Strasberg . . . probably should have won, though De Niro was a revelation as well. And it is rather sad that Harvey Korman didn't get a nod for Blazing Saddles; hell, he even referenced it in the movie! Also . . . uh, John Huston anyone?

Also, how about a stretch: Christopher Lee invigorated every frame he was in in Man with the Golden Gun and he was the first Bond villain to really resonate for years.

BEST ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE

Ingrid Bergman - Murder on the Orient Express - WINNER
Valentina Cortes - La Nuit Americaine
Madeline Kahn - Blazing Saddles
Diane Ladd - Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore
Talia Shire - The Godfather, Part II

Kahn deserved the award for Young Frankenstein, not this schtick. Likewise Bergman is a great actress, but no one had time to even begin to turn in what we could call a 'performance' in Murder on the Orient Express. Fact of the matter is, Kahn should have won for Young Frankenstein.


Other films of note:

Airport 1975
Black Christmas
Caged Heat
Dark Star
Death Wish
Earthquake
The Last Detail
The Longest Yard
The Man with the Golden Gun
Scenes from a Marriage
The Sugarland Express
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Young Frankenstein

 

YEAR: 1974 (and a great year it was) Yeah, it was. Tell me films haven't gotten worse with a straight face...try.

BEST PICTURE

Chinatown
The Conversation
The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Lenny
The Towering Inferno

"Chinatown" and "The Godfather, Part II" are both iconic movies. "The Conversation" is a very good movie. "Lenny" is a good movie. "The Towing Inferno" is trash.

BEST ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE

Art Carney - Harry and Tonto - WINNER
Albert Finney - Murder on the Orient Express
Dustin Hoffman - Lenny
Jack Nicholson - Chinatown
The Godfather, Part II - Al Pacino

I really think they ought to have given Pacino and Nicholson both an Oscar. Though Carney was good, he wasn't in the same league. Hoffman was also pretty good, and I agree, Finney did one of those Brit actor impersonation, and not a good one.

BEST ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE

Ellen Burstyn - Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore - WINNER
Diahann Carroll - Claudine
Faye Dunaway - Chinatown
Valerie Perinne - Lenny
Gena Rowlands - A Woman Under the Influence

I would have chosen Dunaway.

BEST DIRECTOR

John Cassavetes - A Woman Under the Influence
Francis Ford Coppola - The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Bob Fosse - Lenny
Roman Polanksi - Chinatown
Francois Truffaut - La Nuit Americaine

A very, very hard choice. I liked Cassavetes better as an actor, and Fosse, despite great talent, had an obviousness that used to set my teeth on edge. Either Polanski or Coppola.

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR

Fred Astaire - The Towering Inferno
Jeff Bridges - Thunderbolt and Lightfoot
Robert De Niro - The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Michael V. Gazzo - The Godfather, Part II
Lee Strasberg - The Godfather, Part II

Delete Astaire and Gazzo; but I believe that Strasberg actually won, Rogue.


BEST ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE

Ingrid Bergman - Murder on the Orient Express - WINNER
Valentina Cortes - La Nuit Americaine
Madeline Kahn - Blazing Saddles
Diane Ladd - Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore
Talia Shire - The Godfather, Part II

I agree Kahn should have won for "Young Frankenstein"

Other films of note:

Airport 1975
Black Christmas
Caged Heat
Dark Star
Death Wish
Earthquake
The Last Detail
The Longest Yard
The Man with the Golden Gun
Scenes from a Marriage
The Sugarland Express
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Young Frankenstein

What a year...

 

Its funny how Chinatown and Godfather II ripped that year to shreds. Burstyn deserved her Oscar, and in a good field, with Rowlands and Dunaway dialing in masterful performances as well. Art Carney obviously benefitted in a split vote scenario but he was a great actor none the less.

 

I was wrong re Strasberg; I checked it out. It was De Niro.

 

How exactly is 'The Man With The Golden Gun' notable?

 

Its the Mona Lisa compared to Airport 1975. They both made a bunch of money, though.

 

How could you make that mistake? If you've ever played a movie trivia game of any kind you know that the only two actors to win Oscars for playing the same character are De Niro and Brando for Vito

I don't have a whole lot to add that hasn't been said yet, except to say that I agree that The Conversation probably gave Coppola the extra edge he needed to win Best Director. And technically it's supposed to be every film on its individual merits, but I don't feel too badly about it given that it's not like The Godfather, Part II is a bunch of trash or anything Besides, I'm a big fan of The Conversation, and I think it's a pity it's kind of disappeared into relative obscurity. I think it deserves to still be around.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

I like "The Conversation", too. A very subtle film. Unfortunately, Coppola got director megalomania and stopped doing that sort of film.

 

Any movie with Christopher Lee in it is worth taking notice of.

 

I dunno, the Christopher Lee quality is sort of counterbalanced by the Roger Moore shlock.

 

Yeah, and he's in less than half of it and you've got the ever irritating J.W. Pepper, but still, it worth fast forwarding through, I think. The arena scene is absolutely hair raising, one of the best scenes of the entire Moore era.

 

...not that that is particularly difficult.


But yeah, I was being facetious before. Golden Gun does have redeeming points, and is certainly one of the best of the Moore era.

 

You do have Moonraker to contend with.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Moonraker as good or bad?

You never can tell around these parts.

 

BEST PICTURE

Chinatown
The Conversation
The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Lenny
The Towering Inferno

What I don't understand is why Cassavetes is nominating for his astonishing A Woman Under the Influence, but that same film is not nominated in the Best Picture category. Not only would it be among the best of the nominees (some might even say the best of the nominees), but that a miserable film like The Towering Inferno is even on that list is somewhat comical, if not a little sad.

BEST ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE

Art Carney - Harry and Tonto - WINNER
Albert Finney - Murder on the Orient Express
Dustin Hoffman - Lenny
Jack Nicholson - Chinatown
The Godfather, Part II - Al Pacino

Two questions: Where's Peter Falk? and Where is Gene Hackman?

BEST ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE

Ellen Burstyn - Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore -
WINNER
Diahann Carroll - Claudine
Faye Dunaway - Chinatown
Valerie Perinne - Lenny
Gena Rowlands - A Woman Under the Influence

There are three very good nominees here, Burstyn, Dunaway, and Rowlands. Personally, Rowlands delivers her career-best work in Cassavetes' film, even if Burstyn and Dunaway are equally wonderful in Alice and Chinatown.

John Cassavetes - A Woman Under the Influence
Francis Ford Coppola - The Godfather, Part II - WINNER
Bob Fosse - Lenny
Roman Polanksi - Chinatown
Francois Truffaut - La Nuit Americaine

They nominated (and awarded) Coppola for the wrong film. The Conversation is a vastly superior picture to the much-lauded, but oft overrated The Godfather, Part II. If as much attention to editing (particularly Walter Murch's wonderful sound work) had been paid to The Godfather, Part II as it was to The Conversation, I might actually
listen to people who say that the second Godfather picture is better than the first. With The Conversation, Coppola reached his apotheosis as a director, and while The Godfather, Part II and Apocalypse Now were much more grandiose and ambitious projects, they're both
ultimately very good, but not ultimately brilliant, films.

This is a very strong group though. Foreign language directors rarely, if ever, win in the Best Director category. Truffault's nomination is nothing more than a reward for his contribution to world cinema. However, La Nuit Americaine (known in the United States as Day for Night) is one of cinema's greatest homages to itself, right up there with Fellini's epic Otto e Mezzo. Likewise, Polanski and Cassavetes deliver what may be the best work of both their careers. I'll actually come right out and say that, next to Fosse, Coppola's work on The Godfather, Part II is the least deserving of the other nominees. Had he been nominated for The Conversation, as I alluded to above, it
would have been a very, very, very, very (that's four "verys," one for each excellent nominee) tough group to decide. As it is, it's just very, very, very tough.

Okay, we talked about this in the snubs thread, but John Cazale, one of the great unsung heros of seventies cinema was better than both Gazzo and Strasberg . . . probably should have won, though De Niro was a revelation as well. And it is rather sad that Harvey Korman didn't get a nod for Blazing
Saddles; hell, he even referenced it in the movie! Also . . . uh, John Huston anyone?

We are in total agreement. Three nominations for The Godfather, Part II (which is, I'm finding, a very annoying title to type )?

Besides, I'm a big fan of The Conversation, and I think it's a pity it's kind of disappeared into relative obscurity. I think it deserves to still be around.

While The Godfather and its sequel are still the big kids on the block, The Conversation has achieved increasingly significant critical praise in recent years, while Coppola's Apocalypse Now has ever-so-slowly begun its slide into obscurity.

Unfortunately, Coppola got direc

 

General_Dodonna: I want to know about [Coppola's] revolting efforts to halt the release of the best restoration of 1925's Napoleon, so I'm letting you know.

 

YEAR: 1985

BEST PICTURE:

The Color Purple
Kiss of the Spider Woman
Out of Africa - WINNER
Prizzi's Honor
Witness

This is a weak year for me; I've seen only Witness, though all the others are on my list.

BEST ACTOR:

Harrison Ford - Witness
James Garner - Murphy's Romance
William Hurt - Kiss of the Spider Woman - WINNER
Jack Nicholson - Prizzi's Honor
Jon Voight - Runaway Train

Again, all on my list, but Witness is the only one I've seen; but I think we all can agree that Ford is one of the most undernominated people in Hollywood and he was certainly brilliant in Witness.

BEST ACTRESS:

Anne Bancroft - Agnes of God
Whoopi Goldberg - The Color Purple
Jessica Lange - Sweet Dreams
Geraldine Page - The Trip to Bountiful
Meryl Streep - Out of Africa

Color Purple is on my list, as is Out of Africa. Page was good in Bountiful as Bancroft was in Agnes of God, but neither of the movies themselves are that good, if that has anything to do with this category.

BEST DIRECTOR

Hector Babenco - Kiss of the Spider Woman
John Huston - Prizzi's Honor
Akira Kurosawa - Ran
Sydney Pollack - Out of Africa - WINNER
Peter Weir - Witness

Only seen Witness and I can still say with some certainty that Pollack didn't deserve this award. Kurosawa on his worst day is better than Pollack on his best. Same could be said of Weir, perhaps.

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR:

Don Ameche - Cocoon - WINNER
Klaus Maria Brandauer - Out of Africa
William Hickey - Prizzi's Honor
Robert Loggia - Jagged Edge
Eric Roberts - Runaway Train

All on my list to see; seen absolutely none of them. Sad. I'm am a pitiful wreck. But you can't seriously be trying to say that Christopher Lloyd didn't deserve at least a nomination for Back to the Future! Crispin Glover probably as well.

And please . . . Silver Bullet is Gary Busey?s finest hour. Well, except for that Buddy Holly thing. It?s a weird movie, purposely, I think, awful for about three-fourths of its running time, but then it suddenly becomes absolutely unbearably terrifying for the climax and Busey is just knocking the walls out. Not the kind of movie that gets nominated, but still.

And, uh, Roddy McDowell in Fright Night, spoofing all the conventions mightily while still making the character his own.

BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS:

Margaret Avery - The Color Purple
Anjelica Huston - Prizzi's Honor - WINNER
Amy Madigan - Twice in a Lifetime
Meg Tilly - Agnes of God
Oprah Winfrey - The Color Purple

Tilly wasn't that great actually . . .

Other films of note:

After Hours
Back to the Future
The Black Cauldron
Brazil
The Breakfast Club
A Chorus Line
Clue
Code of Silence
Commando
Day of the Dead
Desperately Seeking Susan
Fletch
Friday the 13th: A New Beginning
Fright Night
King David
Legend
Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
My Beautiful Laundrette
Pale Rider
The Purple Rose of Cairo
Re-Animator
Return of the Living Dead
Return to Oz
Shoah
Silverado
The Jewel of the Nile
To Live and Die in L.A.
The Toxic Avenger
A View to a Kill

 

YEAR: 1985

BEST PICTURE:

The Color Purple
Kiss of the Spider Woman
Out of Africa - WINNER
Prizzi's Honor
Witness

"Witness" isn't bad. I liked "Prizzi's Honour", too. Haven't seen "Purple" or "Kiss" and didn't last through all of "Africa."

BEST ACTOR:

Harrison Ford - Witness
James Garner - Murphy's Romance
William Hurt - Kiss of the Spider Woman - WINNER
Jack Nicholson - Prizzi's Honor
Jon Voight - Runaway Train

I haven't seen the Hurt or Voight roles. Of the rest: Ford.

BEST ACTRESS:

Anne Bancroft - Agnes of God
Whoopi Goldberg - The Color Purple
Jessica Lange - Sweet Dreams
Geraldine Page - The Trip to Bountiful WINNER
Meryl Streep - Out of Africa

Bancroft was awful. I think Page was perhaps the best choice.

BEST DIRECTOR

Hector Babenco - Kiss of the Spider Woman
John Huston - Prizzi's Honor
Akira Kurosawa - Ran
Sydney Pollack - Out of Africa - WINNER
Peter Weir - Witness

Not sure here; of those I've seen, Huston.

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR:

Don Ameche - Cocoon - WINNER
Klaus Maria Brandauer - Out of Africa
William Hickey - Prizzi's Honor
Robert Loggia - Jagged Edge
Eric Roberts - Runaway Train

Yes, Christopher Lloyd would be a good candidate, IMO. None of these seem right.

Kind of a dreary year.

 

Andrei Konchalovsky's Runaway Train is sleeper. And I consider both Voight's and Robert's finest hour. It was based on an Akira Kurosawa screenplay and in brutal existential drama that starts in prison exposing viewers to unbearable inhuman conditions in a frozen penitentiary and ruthless inmate and prisonguard codes of survival. Voight's portrayal as the seasoned near celebrity prisoner is seering and frightening in his gift to dispense violent and establish authority. One scene in particular, stands out, when he retaliates against a rival prison gang. Roberts is his prison boxing underling/tagalong that looks up to him like a dog whom Voight protects. The best jailbird depiction I've seen on film. Voight is amazing.

Voight, the thinker, works out a scheme to escape with Roberts in tow. The remainder of the film is the escaped cons trapped upon a train without breaks racing to derailment through frozen snowbound passes of Northwestern Canada. Roberts waning faith in Voight's leadership driving Voight to another violent psychotic episode which includes losing his fingers attempting to free themselves from the locomotive engine is some of the most gripping drama I've ever seen.


SEE THIS MOVIE! IT IS A FANTASTIC SLEEPER!


Besides that I have seen about half these films yet not in many, many years.

 

1985 was a bit of an off year. I recall thinking that Ford and, to a lesser extent, Witness deserved to win.

Back To The Future, anyone?

 

YEAR: 1985

BEST PICTURE:

The Color Purple
Kiss of the Spider Woman
Out of Africa - WINNER
Prizzi's Honor
Witness

I've seen all of these. I would definitely pick The Color Purple, followed closely by Witness. Although Witness is on my top ten of all time, and Peter Weir is certainly a genuis--his films have so much humanity and heart--The Color Purple is certainly better made.

BEST ACTOR:

Harrison Ford - Witness
James Garner - Murphy's Romance
William Hurt - Kiss of the Spider Woman
Jack Nicholson - Prizzi's Honor
Jon Voight - Runaway Train

Harrison Ford for sure. His role as John Book is still talked about. This was the movie that kept him from being typecast as an action hero maverick. His two best acting jobs have been in Peter Weir movies--Witness and The Mosquito Coast. Also, Frantic and Regarding Henry are Oscar worthy performances.

BEST ACTRESS:

Anne Bancroft - Agnes of God
Whoopi Goldberg - The Color Purple
Jessica Lange - Sweet Dreams
Geraldine Page - The Trip to Bountiful
Meryl Streep - Out of Africa

Without a doubt, Whoopi Goldberg.


BEST DIRECTOR

Hector Babenco - Kiss of the Spider Woman
John Huston - Prizzi's Honor
Akira Kurosawa - Ran
Sydney Pollack - Out of Africa - WINNER
Peter Weir - Witness

This one is harder. It's a shame Spielberg wasn't nominated. I would go with Peter Weir. Witness is tonally perfect and an example of flawless direction.


BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR:

Don Ameche - Cocoon - WINNER
Klaus Maria Brandauer - Out of Africa
William Hickey - Prizzi's Honor
Robert Loggia - Jagged Edge
Eric Roberts - Runaway Train

I don't feel too strongly on this one, but I would also probably go with Don Ameche


BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS:

Margaret Avery - The Color Purple
Anjelica Huston - Prizzi's Honor - WINNER
Amy Madigan - Twice in a Lifetime
Meg Tilly - Agnes of God
Oprah Winfrey - The Color Purple

Oprah for this. And I hate Oprah usually.

 

I'm a huge fan of Weir, but I didn't really like Witness much, and I've seen it a few times.

 

I love Witness, but I haven't seen it in a while and need to see it again. As a huge Harrison Ford fan since birth, of course I'd be inclined to give him the award for his best work. But I haven't seen any of the other nominated films from this year so I couldn't really fairly make that judgement.

And Daniel, this is old news now, but the words Moonraker and "good" do NOT belong anywhere near each other



-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Excellent. I was just checking, of course. As I said, you never can tell in these parts.


NoI'mnotlookingatRogue.