Hip-hop music: are there artists that can stand the test of time?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by DUSHONI, Jun 19, 2002.

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  1. DUSHONI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 4
    I hate most hip-hop...and the sad thing is..I love hip-hop music.

    I'm constantly seeking artists that will inspire me and feel confident in the art form. Unfortunately, all I see are these guys talking about diamonds and expensive cars and big butts.

    I found refuge in the underground for a short period of time, but the underground has been tainted with talent-less artists...

    The Freestyle Fellowship (a pillar of the underground) recently release a truly sub-standard album and the Pharcyde broke up. The only group outside of the underground that impresses me is Outkast.

    These are reccomended listening:

    P.A.I.N.T.(2001) -Abstract Tribe Unique

    Innercity Griots(1992)-Freestyle Fellowship

    B-Boys In Occupied Mexico(2002) -2Mex

  2. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    "hip hop is dead".

    Sometimes I believe it.

    They already stood the test of time (I'd say 15+ years is alot of time.)

  3. deltron_zero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    hip hop is more alive than it ever has been. you have people now in every city making hip hop where it used to be only new york than only new york and l.a., even people in small rural communities are trying to expand the genre and create something new. i could list off hundreds of new underground bands that should be listened to. but let me just refer you to [link=http://www.undergroundhiphop.com]undergroundhiphop.com[/link]. check out the hundreds of new singles that they have, or check out their top 40. it's not all the best stuff you've ever heard or anything, but there is a ton of really good hip hop out there, and i would bet that for every single that actually gets put out there are 50 more bands just doing their thing.
  4. Vaderbait Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    While there's always room for new music, I hate hip hop. All the songs are about the same stuff, which I don't care about. And it's really stereotypical, like basketball is.

    Personally, I don't think the artists of any music now adays can stand the test of time, unless they recorded over 10 years ago.
  5. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Vaiderbait, please educate yourself on hip hop, there are many different subjects. You're confusing Hip hop with Gangsta Rap.
  6. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    I just dusted off It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back by Public Enemy.

  7. Vaderbait Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    No, I'm not confusing hip hop with gangsta rap. All rap/hip hop I hear is about 1) how great the artist is 2) how many "B*tches" they get. or 3) shooting cops and breaking laws.

    I'm not trying to preach, because I like Slipknot and groups like that, who dont' exactly sing about "good" stuff, but rappers really need to get some fresh material.

    Just a side note, I know there are a few rappers out there who sing about other stuff, but they hardly get publicity, because the MTV generation doesn't want that.
  8. GasCabbie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 4
    "No, I'm not confusing hip hop with gangsta rap. All rap/hip hop I hear is about 1) how great the artist is 2) how many "*******" they get. or 3) shooting cops and breaking laws."

    That is gansta rap. Listen to a few of the following groups:

    Run DMC
    Public Enemy
    A Tribe Called Quest
    Beastie Boys
    Sugar Hill Gang

    These are some of my favorite groups, and they convey positive messages on the whole. You even said yourself that there are artists nowadays (Outkast comes to mind immediately, because someone already mentioned them) who don't fit the stereotype you've placed on hip-hop.
  9. deltron_zero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    No, I'm not confusing hip hop with gangsta rap. All rap/hip hop I hear is about 1) how great the artist is 2) how many "B*tches" they get. or 3) shooting cops and breaking laws.

    a few groups you might want to check out (and who cares if they get publicity, the best groups rarely do in this backstreet boys era):

    souls of mischief
    foreign legion
    jurassic 5
    dilated peoples
    roots manuva
    celph titled
    beastie boys (one group which i would say has stood the test of time)
    swollen members
    non phixion
    jedi mind tricks
    the pharcyde
    a tribe called quest
    de la soul
    organized konfusion
    mr. lif
    unknown prophets
    public enemy
    last emperor
    boogie down productions
    living legends
    digable planets
    mars ill
    animal farm
    dead prez
    styles of beyond
    beat junkies
    dj shadow
    dj vadim
    dr. octagon
    the ancients...

    i really could go on and on. there really is way more good hip hop out there than what you described, which basically is gangsta rap, it's just that (like you said) most 12 year olds would rather hear about b*tches and killing people than anything with actual substance. so stop watching mtv and go pick up some records.

  10. LemmeSeeYaIYiYi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I like all kind of rap really. Underground is hard to get your hands on, even nowadays with things like Kazaa. There are KRS-One or PRT songs I want to download but are never available, and I simply do not buy CDs under any circumstances anymore. I don't know that many groups on your lists, the ones I do, De La soul, J5, BDP, Dilated People's, etc. I like everything I hear from.

    But I also like what you describe as gangsta rap, it can still be progressive, even though its sometimes garbage. And even pop rap I'll listen to over any other kind of non-rap music, even if its lyrics are stupid.

    The artist who has stood the test of time above all others is Tupac. His lyrics are as meaningful and inventive as any underground artist, but he's so versatile that he can be commercial at the same time. Some of his songs make you want to cry(Keep Ya Head Up, Dear Mama), some plain make you depressed(Hail Mary, Brenda's Got a Baby), some make clubs bounce (How Do You Want It? Cali Love), some make you laugh in amusement(Hit Em Up) Even after his death, he's still strong.
  11. deltron_zero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    you can find songs from every group i listed on audiogalaxy. and that really is just the tip of the iceberg, even for me and i don't know nearly as much about the underground scene as some of my friends do.

    as for tupac, i've never really been much of a fan, at least not enough to buy one of his records or anything. one thing about him that has always impressed me though is his voice, there's just something really honest and sincere about his voice which can be rare especially in commercial rap.
  12. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Vaderbait, as others have said that IS gangsta rap, MTV is not a good place to look for hip hop. Do you look for Rock on MTV? no because MTV does not play any good rock (with a few exeptions), same with Rap, they play the really sh***y kind but not the good kind, try listening to some Political Rap.

    there's a whole list with artists above there, Dilated Peoples, Boogie Down Productions, Poor Righteous Teachers, Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, I could go on and on.

    Listen to it first, then judge.

    deltron, audiogalaxy is dead, RIAA made it put a filter on the songs, and you can't get around this one. =(

    meh, anyway, to reinforce my point about rap having good lyrics, here's an example,

    A Tribe Called Quest - The Infamous Date Rape.

    Classic, classic...
    Classic example of a...a date rape(4X)

    Listen to the rhyme, it's a black date fact
    Percentile rate of date rape is fat
    This is all true to the reason of the skeezin
    You got the right pickin but you're in the wrong season
    If you're in the wrong season, that means you gotta break
    Especially if a squad tries to cry out rape
    You be all vexed cuz she got it goin on
    You don't wanna fight cuz you know that you're wrong
    So instead you rest your head on the arm of the couch
    Envision in your head of a great sex bout
    Worthy opponent, all you wanna do is bone it
    You ask can you kick it, she says you can't stick
    This is the case, the situation is sticky
    Should you try to kiss or head for a hickey
    Not even, you can ask Steven
    If the vibe ain't right, huh, ya leavin
    Hit the road Jack and all of that
    But if she offers her abode, to drop ya load
    Right smack dab in the middle
    Get the kitten, I got crazy tender vittles

    Uh huh, you know science, you get buckwild
    Runnin mad games as if your name was Scott Skiles
    Or better yet Magic or even Karl Malone
    Regardless who it is, your aim is to bone
    If she tries to front, then you start to dis her
    If she's with the program, that's when you start to kiss her
    Might as well get to the point, no time to waste
    Might as well break the ice, then set the pace
    You start to talk nasty, now she's ready to bone
    Step out of the shower, throw on cologne
    All of a sudden, her sugarwalls tumble down like Jericho
    She's hotter than Meshach, Shadrach and Abendego
    You listen to After 7, break fool after 10
    Do your thing at 12 o'clock and when you go again
    There goes round 1, ding, there goes round two
    Now tell me what the (****) are you supposed to do
    What do you know, when the meow is completed
    Girly girl cried rape, yo, I didn't really need it

    Sweetheart, we ain't goin out like that(2X)
    Sweetheart, we ain't goin out like that(zulu)
    We ain't goin out like that(zulu)
    We ain't goin out like that

    Now baby bust it, if you wanna groove
    Me and you can do it, it will be the move
    I won't cry over spilled milk
    If you won't let me take you to the Hilt
    I don't wanna bone you that much
    That I would go for the unforbidden touch
    I'm not the type that would go for that
    I'll have to fetch a brand new cat
    Baby, baby, baby I don't wanna be rude
    I know because of your bloody attitude
    I know why you act that way
    It usually happens on the 28th day
    I respect that crazily
    When you're done with the past can you come check me
    This ain't a joint to disrespect you
    Because one head ain't better than two
    Check it out

    It's a classic example of a...a date...

  13. DUSHONI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 4
    I'm from LA and we have a tremendous underground scene....I'm very well versed with the underground
  14. deltron_zero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    so DUSHONI, are you familiar with slug and his group atmosphere?

    here are the lyrics from his song "scapegoat", this guy is truly an amazing lyricist.

    It's the caffeine, the nicotine, the miligrams of tar
    It's my habitat, it needs to be clean, it's my car
    It's the fast talk they use to abuse and feed my brain
    It's the cat box it needs to be changed, it's the pain
    It's women, it's the plight for power it's government
    The way your giving knowledge slow and throwing in subtle hints
    It's rubbing it, It's itching it, It's applying cream
    It's the foreigners sight seeing with high beams, It's in my dreams
    It's the monsters that I conjure, It's the marijuana
    It's embarassment, displacement, It's where I wander
    It's my genre, It's Madonna's videos
    It's game shows,cheap liquor,blunts, and bumper stickers with rainbows
    It's angels, demons, gods, it's the white devils
    It's the monitors, the soundman, it's the ****ing mic levels
    It's gas fumes, fast food, Tommy Hil, the date rape pill
    Columbia House music club, designer drugs and rhyming thugs
    It's bloods and crips, five and six,
    It's stick up kids, It's christian conservative terrorists, it's porno flicks
    It's the east coast, no it's the west coast
    It's public schools, it's asbestos
    It's mentholated, It's techno
    It's sleep, life, and death
    It's speed, coke, and meth
    It's hay fever, pain relievers, oral sex, and smokers breath
    It stretches for as far as the eye can see
    It's reality, **** it , it's everything but me
    On and on and on and on
    The list goes on and on and on and on
    It's in the air, in the water, it's in the meat
    It's indirect, indiscrete, inconsistent, and incomplete
    It's on the street, every city and everywhere you go
    In every man it's the insanity, the fantasy, the casualties
    It's the health care system, it's welfare victims
    It's assault weapons, it's television religion, and it's false lessons
    It's cops, pigs with badges guns and sticks
    It's harassment and a complex you carry when you're running ****
    It's wondering if you get to eat
    It's the winter , the weather
    It's herpes, and it's forever
    It's the virus that takes the lives of the weak and the strong
    It's the drama that keeps on between me and my seed's mom
    It's that need to speek long, It's my hunger for attention
    It's the wack , who attack songs of redemption
    It's prevention, It's the first solution
    It's loosing the retribution, it's mental pollution, and public execution
    It's the nails that keep my hands and feet to these boards
    It's the part time job that governs what you can afford
    It's the fear, It's the fake
    It's clear it can make time stop and leave you stranded in the year of the snake
    It's the dollar, yen, pound, it's all denomination
    It's hourly wages for your professional observations
    It's on your face and it's in your eyes
    It's everything you be
    But it ain't me mother ****er, it ain't me
    On and on and on and on
    the list goes on and on and on and on

  15. DUSHONI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 4
    slug sole..I've seen those guys at project blowed..they're pretty cool...Abstract Rude's my favorite rapper..
  16. deltron_zero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    atmosphere is just slug and his producer ant, they have a spankin new album out called "god loves ugly". it's excellent!
  17. DUSHONI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 4
    he also does music with sole sometimes....they're part of some crew whose name eludes me....
  18. deltron_zero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
  19. Glockenspiel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 1
    "Hip hop is dead."

    What exactly do you mean by this statement, the culture, the music? Judging by radio, music video, record sales, the reaction of young America it seems very much alive to me.

    LOL, How can you take someone seriously who claims rap has no message other than gangsta, YET his a response to more 'real' music is Slipnot, what are they but probably another rap rock wanabee group. They're not FRESH, as the claim was and equally as worthless as the "gangsta" rap stereotype claimed that somehow all rap fits into.

    Speaking for a fact, people who like rap rock and constantly flame rap music, I have no respect for your opinons on music. I'm happy that most people would rather hear about money, women, and cars as opposed to some self-pitying losers with Vanillia Ice equivelent mic skills screaming about how much of losers they really are. Eminem's diss to Everlast would apply beautifully here ("they can't rap or play, but they try to do both.")
  20. The_Abstract Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    how novel? A hip hop thread in the JC.

    I agree with everyone here that MTV/BET/VH1 is the scourge of true hip-hop everywhere. It was over the minute they pulled the plug on Yo!MTV Raps. Is it a coincidence they're all owned by the same company now?

    I will say, though, that I'm still a fan of so called "gangsta rap". I don't know, I tend to like any music that pisses the Man off. I owe a huge debt to N.W.A., Public Enemy, and Tupac for bringing news from the streets to some poor Midwestern kid stuck in the nightmares of Suburbia.

    As far as the underground goes, I try to keep my ears to the streets. Having a computer definitely helps nowadays. I kinda wish they would stay underground though. Success tends to impede artistic growth.

    There are some mainstream acts that still get me though. I like Jay, Eminem, Outkast, Nore, Lauryn, Snoop, DMX. I tend to stick with artists as long as they stay true.

    Some MC's are walking a thin line though. I never bought the "whatever black people do to make money is cool" argument. Busta and Ludacris need to stop pushing Pepsi before I listen to them again. I don't know, it seems like Coke products have always been cool, but everything else is crossing the line.

    And someone please tell Irv Gotti and Ja Rule to SHUT the &@#$ UP! They bite from everybody. Fakest crew ever!

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