JCC [Hippies] Anti-death penalty thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Guy, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5

    I'm not sure whether to :oops:, [face_plain] or [face_laugh] at this. In the grand scheme of Evil, Jane Fonda rates somewhere between Hayden Christensen and Now-and-Laters.
  2. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I think that, since crimes against humanity and genocide are so rare compared to straight-up murder, it's not much of a question. There's also the fact that many of the examples you listed weren't put to death for complex and varied reasons.




    lol J. Edgar Hoover and Jane Fonda lol


    Treason is an extremely rare crime for a person to be charged with in the United States. The last two people to be executed for treason probably didn't "deserve" the harshness because their crimes were a bit overblown to say the least. "You killed all our boys in Korea!!!11!!1" Though, I guess you think Jane Fonda killed those 50-something-thousand U.S. personnel and couple million Vietnamese and messed up John McCain's shoulders for good measure.
  3. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    How about honor killings. Should they get the death penalty for honor killings?
  4. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
  5. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    "Honor" and "Killing" are two words that I cannot put immediately next to each other.
    Yes, I know what you are talking about, but the nature of the crime they are supposedly correcting for the sake of honor... It just isn't a crime.

    Honor Killers are murderers. They should be tried for murder, as garden variety, basic, stupid murderers.
  6. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    Do you think the death penalty could prevent honor killings from happening in America?

    If they know the consequences do you think fathers and brothers would do the deed?

  7. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I'm also terrified of Sharia law.
  8. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    Probably not. Never underestimate the bassackwards power of religiously-motivated self-righteousness.
  9. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    That's no different from asking whether the death penalty is an effective deterrent for any other crime.

    In general, no, it doesn't have a significant effect.
  10. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    Although coupled with large amounts of fines and basically taking away of all lands and property owned by the families doing the deed along with the death penalty may force them to think twice. If they realize that their shame and dishonor will not only cost them their freedom but the wealth and prosperity they passed on will get them to think twice about it.

  11. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    oh and forced deportations of the families might help as well.
  12. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Punishing families of lawbreakers doesn't come off as cruel to you, beezel?
  13. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Holy crap, the racism and Islamophobia just keeps getting worse. I blame Aspbergher's.
  14. Scummy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 4
    I say we put the family of murderers in internment camps. How else can we put a stop to honor killings? [face_flag]

    Scummy
  15. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Nah, we should just exterminate their families, their families' friends, and anyone else they've come across.
  16. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5

    [image=http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/a_086MichaelBiehn.jpg]
    It's the only way to be sure.
  17. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Death penalty ban likely to be on California ballot in November.
    California's voters in November will have their first opportunity in more than three decades to consider whether to scrap the death penalty and clear the largest death row in the nation's history.

    Reviving one of the state's most contentious political issues, backers of a proposed ballot initiative to abolish the death penalty announced Thursday that they had more than enough signatures to put the explosive question on the November ballot. They gathered more than 800,000 signatures, 300,000 more than required, and only technical glitches would prevent a campaign that will reopen the debate over whether California should execute its most heinous murderers.

    The SAFE California Act would replace the death penalty with life in prison without the possibility of parole. If approved, the law would convert the death sentences of the state's 725 death row inmates to life in prison terms and eliminate the death penalty option in murder cases.

    Californians historically have strongly supported the death penalty, famously ousting former Chief Justice Rose Bird and two Supreme Court colleagues in 1986 for refusing to uphold death sentences.
    But at the same time, the state's death penalty system has been marred by epic delays of 20 years or more in legal appeals. Just 13 inmates have been executed since the restoration of capital punishment in 1978, prompting even some leading death penalty supporters to question its benefits.

    California has not executed an inmate in six years, the result of ongoing legal challenges to the state's lethal injection method that are expected to extend a moratorium on the use of the death chamber for at least another year.

    Death penalty opponents are pushing the measure as a way to save the state as much as $180 million annually, arguing that capital punishment has become an expensive waste of money at a time when California is slashing spending on everything from schools to public safety. A study last year, headed by a federal appeals court judge, concluded the state would save that much money because it costs so much more to house death row prisoners, conduct death penalty trials and for the lengthy appeals that follow convictions.

    Woo-hoo! The biggest state in the country is on its way to the developed world!
    The most recent Field Poll on the topic last year found 68 percent of California voters support the death penalty.

    Oh. ****.
    Law enforcement groups such as the district attorney association and police groups... are expected to campaign against the measure.

    I don't understand why police and DA's almost always support the death penalty. Is it really that important to their jobs? It's also not nearly as fun as beating homeless people to death or macing Occupy protesters.
  18. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    With all the ridiculous waiting times/endless appeals, it's not like California has the death penalty anyway.


    Los Angeles Lakers: Drama, guaranteed.
  19. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    If you're looking for strawman arguments, on either side really, the possibly most appropriate place to start is that public opinion dictates how much of the legislation works, which is why gay marriage is making a real go of it these days (that's good). Gallup has support at 53% across the country:

    [image=http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/vqf79nrpfewws7ibh-1u-q.gif]

    And, in the majority of cases, you hear statistics like this mentioned by the "liberal" groups who are pushing for the legislations ("The common man* is for it, why aren't you?") [* = even Jello].

    The flip-side to this is Americans are overwhemlingly more in support of killing someone for murdering someone else than they are for me to marry Dingo (that's bad):

    [image=http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/zc0mmtsaguquydfhqdetea.gif]

    And, if you really want to self-immolate, just think about that when we repeal Roe v. Wade (the toppings contain potassium benzoate...):

    [image=http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/qgpmcs1jxuwo2l6achm_cg.gif]

    Which, frankly, it's why it's dangerous to argue about volume vs. morality -- however, when the morality differs, you never tend to lose an election going with the numbers.

    Lies, damn lies and statistics...
  20. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    First note, I am against the death penalty.


    Now, to the particulars of the death penalty in CA... we never execute the people anyway, so it mostly exists now so there's a bargaining chip (though detectives aren't supposed to actually bring it up in interviews: they're legally supposed to leave it to the DA for pleas).

    The thing is, the criminals know that CA doesn't execute people. I have a friend who's a 26 year vet of LAPD homicide, and he says he's seen cases recently where the defendants actually tried to make their guilt and nature of their crimes evident at trial (while self-representing) because they wanted to be on Death Row instead of with the general population. On Death Row, they get their own cell and know it's just a life sentence anyway.

    So even if you put the ethics aside, the de facto result of Death Row in California is letting the worst criminals have a privilege the other convicts don't. I wish that people would point some of these practicalities out, because unfortunately appealing to people's sense of right and wrong doesn't appear to work [face_plain]

    It won't pass but I'll vote for it anyway.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  21. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    3 other arguments for law being counter to "majority" opinion.
    1 Trail of Tears. Remember when Andrew Jackson, as President of the United States, forced all them dam injuns out of US territory? Remember how the Cherokee sued to the Supreme Court of the United States and won? How the Supreme Court declared Jackson's Order unconstitutional? Remember how Jackson said "Let the Supreme Court enforce that decision", and effectively ignored the Checks&Balances? Remember the public outcry over that? No? Because there wasn't one. Congress didn't even consider impeaching the racist $#&%. Law over-ridden by popular public opinion.
    2 Slavery. Remember how the majority of the US population was against it? No? Because... They weren't. Sure, they eventually fought a war over it. And eventually ended it--BY LAW. But they didn't end segregationist or institutional racism... Not for over 100 years later. And they didn't even do a decent job of it then. They just put a few stop-gaps into place to make it a little bit harder.
    3 Japanese Internment Camps. Remember how everyone rose up in defense of the US Citizens of Japanese decent being rounded up, their property stolen/confiscated, and they and their families shipped into concentration camps and forced labor camps? No? Because popular opinion was all in favor of that action. Those damn Japanese people bought worthless land and turned it into fertile crops through hard labor and mystic trickery--was only fair that honest white folk be allowed to take it back. The case had to go to the Supreme Court. AGAIN. Was overturned as unconstitutional. Took over 50 years to get an apology.

    Oh, and that is just some stuff.
    We don't actually have separation of Church & state. In fact, children in public schools are taught to recite a prayer everyday as part of their indoctrination/brainwashing. But that's opening up a whole new can of worms.

    So, I am all in favor of someone with a brain and a sense of ethics over-riding public opinion in the name of promoting equal rights or just plain civility or humanitarianism.
  22. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    Eh. From my experience, "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are just oversimplified buzz-words.


    As the product of an American public school system (and critic of it's failings), I can attest that at no time were children ever mandated or encouraged to recite any prayers.
  23. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    my mom actually changed her mind to being in favor of it after her best friend was murdered by said best friends husband. ******* got off too because the police muffed up evidence all over the place. dude drugged her and then stuck her in a van with gasoline and lit it on fire. they found enough of her skull to identify her but that was about it. and it was pretty obviously pre-meditated too based on what they didn't screw up. i don't know much beyond that, happened a couple decades ago, but i wouldn't lose any sleep over people like that no longer being with us honestly.
  24. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Pledge of Allegiance.
    Signed into law by Eisenhower so that all children could pledge themselves to their country and their god every day in school.
  25. Mortimer_Snerd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    So okay...a death penalty thread. I'm not even sure if I've posted in this thread already, and to be honest I'm way too lazy to go and check. I've always been passionate about this issue because it's one of those issues that seems to be divisive when it comes to right and left.

    I would rather eat broken glass than vote republican, but c'mon, wake up. There are only two problems with capital punishment: 1. It's not used often enough. 2. The appeals process is what makes it so expensive.

    I hate...I mean genuinely hate the right wing hate machine, but the death penalty for proven offenders is just another way of gradually cleansing the gene pool. I believe in peace and mercy and all that hippie crap but when it comes to child molesters and rapists I actually believe that death is too humane. I'm sure I've said this before but I don't have the inclination to go and look it up. Grr. LEFT WING WAKE UP! THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE YOU NEED BE CONCERNED ABOUT!