Home school v. Private school v. Public school

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by solojones, Aug 3, 2002.

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  1. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    You can't just decide, "Well, since I really hate this place and these people, I'll quit," like you can with a job. You have to deal with it for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

    You can't really do that with a job, either. Especially if you are taking care of a family. It doesn't exactly look great to apply for a job and explain that you left your last one because you didn't like the atmosphere.
  2. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    gwaernardel, if the economy isn't good and you're depending on the money from the job, it's not easy to quiet a job. :)

    But I would hope that someone who isn't happy in school would have the understanding of the parents, teachers, and others to find a new environment or learn to deal with this one. I know in many cases that doesn't happen though.


    As to some of the above arguments, any single individual is not enough to base judgement on for the whole group on how they're schooled. Even a whole group isn't enough. Each method of schooling has its advantages and disadvantages. The thing is to figure out what works best for you. And since each individual is different, it's going to be different for everyone.
  3. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Well, I think we're losing sight of what the real question is here.

    Do you think that home schooling is in fact a more effective way of teaching a child than public schooling?

    Let me just say that I have been public schooled my entire life and still earn test scores equal to or greater than most home schooled children in my state.
  4. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Do others see a corelation between parents who choose to homeschool their kids and parents who are really strict about things like what movies their kids watch?

    I don't see that in Public or Private schooled kids. But yes in almost every homeschooled kid I know. I mean, they have one of those TV Guardians to take the "bad" words out of PG rated movies that were made in the 60's! They aren't even what would now be considered swear words. And these kids are 13 and 17! What are they going to think the first time they are cussed out? Are they going to break down crying?

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  5. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    solojones, you sure like to make generalities.

    I watched all sorts of violent, bloody movies when I was a kid. I also read Stephen Kind and Michael Chrichton books (wanna read the F-word thirteen times on one page? Jurassic Park, my friends.) and played violent video games.
  6. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    Terr_Mys: Do you think that home schooling is in fact a more effective way of teaching a child than public schooling?

    In many cases, yes. I am biased since I was homeschooled and never attended a public school. I wasn't doing all that great in private school, but did very well for myself after some time of homeschooling.

    Homeschooling means very much involvement of the parents - which is very necessary in children's education. Perhaps these kids do better because they're more interested in the first place.
    Homeschooling is also very versatile. You can arrange your learning schedule according to your needs, not the common denominator of the class or the school's required curriculum. In some cases this is bad, but in many it's good.
    Homeschooling requires a lot of discipline, effort, and time. Some parents just don't have those available.

    Terr_Mys: Let me just say that I have been public schooled my entire life and still earn test scores equal to or greater than most home schooled children in my state.

    And I've been homeschooled for 8 years and get much better scores than the public school children in my area. Is that really saying anything?

    solojones: Do others see a corelation between parents who choose to homeschool their kids and parents who are really strict about things like what movies their kids watch?

    Hmmm ... I've never particularly noticed. It's definately true for my religious and Christian friends, homeschooled or not.
  7. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Well, I would have liked to be homeschooled, but my parents just weren't qualified for it. And it's a bit too late for it now. I really dislike the whole schedule/environment of public schooling, but if it wasn't for my current school then I would have no 'friends' in my otherwise remote location.

    Edit: And FlamingSword, I was just using my test scores to back up the possibility that public schooling can be just as effective as home schooling :).
  8. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I know that I shouldn't generalize... I know that there are different people, but seriously most the homeschooled kids I know are as I described.

    I've been public schooled for 11 years, and I got a 25 on the ACT when I was 12 years old. I get near perfect scores on all my standardized testing. I would probably inflict serious injury on myself if I were homeschooled, though, because I would go insane.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  9. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Most of the kids I know that were home-schooled chose to do it in elementary or middle school.

    And about the job thing, my point is that you always have the choice. You can go out and try to find a new job while you're in your current crappy one, or you can request a transfer. In school you don't have that. There were times in middle school where I just sat in the bathroom all day reading because I didn't want to deal with the cruel people there. I had no choice, really, since my parents worked all day and couldn't afford a private school.

    I know I'm not alone in this either. My friend used to have gum thrown at him and people spit at him every day when he went to lunch because he was friends with a gay guy. My other friend got her locker trashed a bunch of times through the year because she had told the teacher that some girl was getting the crap beaten out of her by two other girls. Middle school especially can be absolute hell for some people.
  10. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    solojones: I would probably inflict serious injury on myself if I were homeschooled, though, because I would go insane.

    lolz, sometimes I think I am insane, so perhaps homeschooling has side effects ;)

    Terr_Mys: I really dislike the whole schedule/environment of public schooling, but if it wasn't for my current school then I would have no 'friends' in my otherwise remote location.

    You're saying we don't count ... :_| :p

    My parents began homeschooling us when we first moved to the US. We didn't live in a great area in Chicago so they didn't want us hanging around the neighborhood kids too much. Those first couple of months, my brothers became my best friends. It was good because we've always been close since. But I am glad that we joined organizations, because otherwise we would have been pretty lonley without any other friends :)
  11. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I'm beginning to see that location has a lot to do with the decision. For me, first living in a pleasant suburban town and then a quaint rural town, the public school environment seems much less harsh than what gwaernardel is describing, although I know what you're saying is very true, and things like that do in fact happen even in the more remote public schools like mine. I did hate middle school, but it was really nothing compared to those other horror stories.
  12. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    FlamingSword- well, I'm insane too! So at least there's equal opportunity for that no matter where you go to school :D

    I understand that it can be really bad to be in school and be picked on. Yet still, part of me feels like (in most cases) you should just ignore those people. That stuff happens to me sometimes (food thrown at me, sworn at, etc), and I ignore those people because if they are spending their time torturing me... well it must mean they're stupid and at least I'm worth some attention ;)

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  13. Lieutenant Tschel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 2
    Well the bullying and all that wasn't as bad at the private school I attended for middle school. I assume it was due to the more regimented structure, which made kids afraid to act too out of line. If that happened they were sent to Sister Norberta's office for reprimand, and if they did something REALLY bad, the Monsignor would have to call their parents...scary.

    Not to say it never happened of course, I'd be the first one to tell you, believe me...

    I understand what people are saying when they say they hang around idiots rather than be an outcast. Except that I chose to be the outcast. It was hell at first, but after a while I made some "friends" in various circles and I'd go back and forth between groups at MY convenience. If the conversation shifted to something I didn't care about, BAM! I was outta there.

    Then again, I never got invited to people's parties or whatnot and never made any real friends so maybe it wasn't the best choice. Who knows....
  14. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I lived in a nice suburban area, where many of the kids were upper-middle class, and no one was poorer than lower middle class. And I still had a crappy time.
    Edit: And what about really sensitive kids, who can't ignore people who pick on them? When I was a preteen, I was like that. Everything hurt me. :(
  15. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Well, that's why I said in most cases. I understand that it must really hurt some kids. But realistically, there are not too many kids in schools with absolutely no friends or self esteem.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  16. Rogue_Product Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    Interesting idea here. As an Australian, allow me to throw a different perspective into the ring.
    Homeschooling is considered VERY alternative in Australia and most kids who do receive it come out the other end seemingly as outcasts. Despite this, the rarity of homeschooling is such that it is aligned with alternative religions etc. and thus is generally not given much thought by most parents. The kids do come out at the end of homeschool with good educations, but have often been far too sheltered. I don't see elitism from any of them however.
    Public Schooling is the system for most - I went there for 7 years - and works reasonably well in the junior years. Despite this, it is not a good prospect for many in the senior levels trying to get a tertiary education. Obviously there are similar problems to the US system with stretched resources - my mother is a teacher and earns a pittance compared to most - and thus the students suffer unless they are willing to work independently and study hard.
    Private schools vary so much it is ridiculous. As a member of such a school I think they work well for the majority as the students either come from successful backgrounds or are on scholarship despite this, they are damned expensive. Private schooling here is a VERY exclusive thing in most cases but does get the best results for University. The main problem is the elitism and arrogance that incubates in the Private system to such a point that it is almost sickening.

    In Australia, probably the best alternatives for most students - and indeed the best organised schools for all-rounders - are the Catholic schools. They offer a good solid education for a fraction of the cost of private providers. Despite this, religion is compulsory study throughout, even for the non-catholics they take on board.

    Schooling is obviously a worldwide dilemma.
  17. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Interesting perspectives there, Rogue. My family isn't Catholic, but I recently discussed this with my grandpa and he said he thinks Catholic schools give great educations.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  18. Lieutenant Tschel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 2
    "he thinks Catholic schools give great educations"

    Well I thought so...
  19. Rogue_Product Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    Hmmm... I wouldn't say its "great" but credit where credit is due and indeed they are a "great" medium all things considered.
  20. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    This is a debate I've had multiple times at college, with people coming from each end of the spectrum.

    Personally, I went to a public school. I have done better academically than anyone else who lived down the hall. This includes other students who went to public schools, students who went to private schools, and two students who were home schooled.

    I consider myself proof that public schools aren't that bad. I ended up better off with my free education than those who had to pay. Those who went to private schools, on average, did as well as those who went to public schools. They also had the same level of social skills. On the other hand, the home schooled students were lacking in social skills.

    In these discussions, everyone agreed that home schooling was wrong. The students don't get social interactions that should be essential to growing up. They also are limited to learn that which their parents know. They don't learn how to learn from a variety of people, and with a variety of teaching techniques.

    I don't see an advantage to private schools, probably because I went to a public school, and I had no problems adjusting to the college level. But perhaps it is better for other people. I don't know.
  21. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I totally agree with you, YodaJeff! Two of my friends who are homeschooled went to public schools a couple years, got a bad teacher, and gave up. What happens when they get a proffesor or a boss they don't like? You have to learn to deal with all kinds of people, and not just your brothers and sisters. And even if you have activities and you are homeschooled, you still don't know what it is to learn with other people.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  22. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    What about kids like me, who went to school for a long time before becoming homeschooled? And I'm not just learning what my parents know. I'm in a correspondance school program, and I get real textbooks, and take tests and mail them in, and get graded.

    And if a kid is really unhappy in their public school, and there are no good private school alternatives, what else is a parent to do, if their kid is really miserable?
  23. FlamingSword Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 6
    YodaJeff, I don't know if these are your own personal opinions or just those of the group you discussed with, but here's what I think.

    The below statements depend a lot on the parents; for some they hold true, for others they don't.

    The students don't get social interactions that should be essential to growing up.

    Many homeschooled kids are part of clubs, churches, homeschooled organizations, YMCAs, Park Districts, etc. There is plenty of oportunity for social interaction. Social interaction shouldn't be the most important thing in school anyway; you're there to learn first and foremost. Yes, it's a tad harder to meet people, but there are plenty of ways that are not hard. I'm sure there are homeschooled students that are isolated, but I was not one of them nor do I know any that were.

    Homeschooling is also becoming more accepted which means it's becoming possible to join private and public school clubs in some places now without attending the school.

    They also are limited to learn that which their parents know. They don't learn how to learn from a variety of people, and with a variety of teaching techniques.

    That depends on the parents. My parents made sure I was exposed to a lot of people with many different ideas. Many people were eager to teach what they knew. Had I or my siblings gone to a private or public school, we would never have had the learning experiences we had with these people. True, we would have had others though.
    For difficult subjects, I've had some tutoring. A famly friend took me to college libraries every week while he did research on the book he was writing. Another family friend, who worked for a publishing company, showed me her company and gave me early reading help and heaps of books. I've learned from cab drivers, teachers, nurses, sailors, accountants, and more I can't remember right now. I was active in my church for a number of years as well and learned a lot, although that probably would have happened even if I wasn't homeschooled.

    I do honestly believe that those problems are myths in many cases. There are exceptions but there are always exceptions in everything. :)
  24. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Like I said, Homeschoolers get social interactions, but they don't really get exposed to how to learn with other people and with lots of different teachers and authority figures.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  25. Lieutenant Tschel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 2
    Right, In High School there was a boy in my class who had been homeschooled for years prior. Boy, was he miserable! Everything "traumatized" him. He did the bare minimum required of him to pass his classes and graduate. He epitomizes what I see as the downfalls of homeschooling. His mother went along with all his "traumatic" experiences and did her best to make life easy for him. I swear that kid was home "sick" more days than I was healthy!
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