Homophobia and tfn

The first that got my attention was this post over in the Gay Bar thread. I did PM a mod, but apparantly it's perfectly ok to tell someone they're going to hell because they're gay.

A bit later, this post appeared. What I don't get about this one is if he's a 'gay's worse nightmare', what was he doing in a gay orientated thread in the first place?

I was looking for a link to that post, when I found this thread, and I was disgusted by the ammount of homophobia in there. People just saying there shouldn't be 'gay clubs' because they think it's 'wrong' and not backing it up with anything.

Just go into any disussion on same sex issues and you'll find a lot of 'gays are wrong' and I'm sick of it. I'm not saying everyone should be in favour of same sex couples, but I would like to a lot less of this attitude especially when the people saying probably don't even know any gay people.

Oh, and I forgot the ban on fanfic that even hints at homosexuality when inter-species relationships are perfectly fine.

 

Well, those are people's opinions. I don't think there's much the mods can do as long as they aren't directly insulting any poster.

 

You didn't PM me, so I'll add my 2c

The first comment was :-

u know being gay is against God's law? so u cant be a christian or go to heaven being gay

In my opinion that's a very poor attitude to have, however it's only his opinion. Furthermore, by my understanding homosexuality is against the following of certain branches of Christianity, and followers of that faith honestly believe that homosexuals are destined to spend eternity in hell.

The second comment :-

What you both should probably know, is that I am a gay's worse enemy...

Again, not the best of comments, but I don't see how it breaks any rules.

The thread in the Senate is a very heated one that deals with the acceptance of homosexuality in society. If homosexuality was completely accepted then the thread wouldn't exist. Sadly homosexuality isn't fully accepted in society, so you can imagine that some of the people that feel that way might be members of the boards here.

Thing about opinion is that you don't actually have to back it up with fact. Thing is, while people believe that homosexuality is "wrong" there's no rule or fact to back it up. However, they are perfectly entitled to harbour that opinion, and as long as they aren't flaming (omg! pun) or trolling then they are entitled to post their opinion.

edit

you'll find a lot of 'gays are wrong' and I'm sick of it

My personal suggestion would be to openly challenge them in the Senate thread to explain why they hold that opinion, and see what they say.

 

True, but how would you feel if people kept telling you you're going to hell? I'm a christian, and I can't think of a single thing in the bible that says homosexuality is a sin, and yet people who claim to be christians tell me I'm going to hell.

 

Everyone here knows I'm the biggest bleeding heart around, and I detest homophobia, but malkie's right, it's just people expressing their opinion. Just because you don't like their reasoning doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to say it. As long as they aren't being overtly hateful or derogatory there isn't much that can be done.

 

Then debate the issue with them and prove them wrong. PM a mod before you run to Comms.

 

Ask them how they think God would like them talking to people like that. There are specific passages about the treatment of others... Prove them wrong.

 

It sucks that some people don't like gays and are vocal about it, but you really can't do anything about it (other than asking them for reasons and if it's derogatory, pming a mod).

Oh, and I forgot the ban on fanfic that even hints at homosexuality when inter-species relationships are perfectly fine.
The no homosexuality was passed down by the owners, and inter-species relations also are only allowed to be male/female.

 

moosemousse posted on 4/25/05 2:54pm

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True, but how would you feel if people kept telling you you're going to hell? I'm a christian, and I can't think of a single thing in the bible that says homosexuality is a sin, and yet people who claim to be christians tell me I'm going to hell.
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I *am* going to hell - but that's for unrepeatable reasons. As far as the Bible goes - I'm no expert, but there was something to do with the people from Sodom which didn't go down too well. (note - don't turn this into a religion thread).

It's just opinion, nothing else - I'd honestly suggest you had it out them in the Senate

 

"Then debate the issue with them and prove them wrong."

You can't prove someone wrong if they are unwilling to listen. You remember that petition I did many moons ago to get the Basher Sanctuary closed and we argued over it? I didn't want to listen to you or change my view regardless of how well you defended your position. Same stupidity and ignorance, expect a different subject and other members.

 

Different issue, Learner. Very different issue.

Regarding the debate, ask them which sections of the Bible apply and which don't. For example, if Leviticus is to be believed, how much is a reasonable price when selling one's daughter into slavery?

West Wing had a brilliant treatment of this.

 

MalkieD2: IIRC, that had nothing to do with homosexuality, more the whole sexual imorality of both sodom and gamhora, and that included heterosexual acts as well.

But yes, I think it'd be wise not to turn this into 'bible study time'

 

To me going into the gay thread and saying that people are going to hell because they are gay is a form of harassment, but that's just my personal belief.

 

Quixotic-Sith posted on 4/25/05 3:16pm

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West Wing had a brilliant treatment of this.
[hr][/blockquote]


Which it stole from a chain letter.


The problem is that those kinds of messages are trolling. They're looking for heated responses, not debate. The only way to deal with them is to ignore them, but still. They aren't on topic and they don't contribute anything positive.

 

You know, I just reread the first post of this thread, and I think that there is a pretty clear precedent for calling that trolling, but I'll leave it up to the mods of that forum.

When I was modding, the standing rules were that if someone were to come into a thread which had clear expectations and underlying philosophies (e.g., a Defense Force, Fan Club, Basher's Sanctuary) and willfully posted in an incendiary manner, they were trolling and flame-baiting, which was punishable.

That being said, moosemousse, don't assume nothing happened. Not all punishments are public; bans and warnings don't always receive public attention and are not necessarily advertised.

EDIT: Curse you, Liz! You beat me to it!

 

"Different issue, Learner. Very different issue."

I didn't care at the time. I believed in what I only wanted to believe and I wasn't going to budge regardless of what you posted. The same goes with certain people that believe Homosexuals go to hell. I wasn't making a point about the issue we had.

 

True, but how would you feel if people kept telling you you're going to hell?

The rules aren't here to protect everyone's feelings. They are here to provide a guideline for behavior. If we start banning for everything that hurts someone's feelings, then there won't be anyone left here.

I'm a christian, and I can't think of a single thing in the bible that says homosexuality is a sin, and yet people who claim to be christians tell me I'm going to hell.

Are you the standard that decides what all Christians believe, or how they all interpret the Bible?

I too am a Christian, but there are many people out there who claim otherwise. Should I start banning anyone who says "Mormons aren't Christians", because it hurts my feelings?

As far as the Senate thread goes, you might want to reevaluate what you define as homophobia. Saying that homosexuality is wrong is not the same thing as being homophobic, no matter how much some PC groups would like to make you think that. An example I often use is that I believe that drinking alcohol is wrong, am I then an alcoholphobe?

Kimball Kinnison

 

You just simply can't force people to approve of homosexuality. It's just impossible. I could get into that more, but I think what I've said cuts it good enough.

 

You can't just say that you don't like homosexuality and think it's wrong without going deeper. Why you don't like it generally comes down to being scared of it and what it represents, or just hating it because you feel it's an abomination. Both are homophobic.

 

The rules aren't here to protect everyone's feelings.

They aren't?

 

Come on now Matt. This is where the "case-by-case" clause swoops in and saves everyone.

 

It's not that I want everyone to approve, I just don't want people telling me I'm going to hell or that I'm a sinner because I'm gay, well, lesbian, but that's beside the point. I don't force my homosexuality on others, so why should say these things to me?

Sure, if people ask me about thing such as homosexuality or christianity I'll answer their questions, but I don't go out of my way to force it on them.

 

Liz Skywalker posted on 4/25/05 3:32pm

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You can't just say that you don't like homosexuality and think it's wrong without going deeper. [i]Why[/i] you don't like it generally comes down to being scared of it and what it represents, or just hating it because you feel it's an abomination. Both are homophobic.
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Sadly, it's fair game to have an opinion without reason here. There's no rule or policy that forces you to back-up any opinion or belief that you have.

You're right though - the majority of homophobes are either scared of the concept, think it's somehow 'dirty', or perhaps even have repressed homosexual feelings of their own.

 

or perhaps even have repressed homosexual feelings of their own

From my own personal experiance I know how true that is.

 

Come on now Matt. This is where the "case-by-case" clause swoops in and saves everyone.

Oh, right.

We have to be careful not to offend anyone with mental disabilities who probably can't read the boards anyway, but who cares about offending a gay person who is reading the boards right now (in this case, moosemousse).