Homosexuality and theforce.net

Wake up, TF.N. This isn't church camp or the RNC, and you can't pick and choose who likes Star Wars. You've set yourself up as the premier website for Star Wars news and fan socialization, so you really shouldn't be surprised that the biggest fanbase in history isn't 100% Straight American WASPs.

Agreed. One must also remember that whether the owners like it or not this is an international site and many people outside the US (as with quite a few within her borders) would be bemused that the "premier" SW site on the WORLD WIDE WEB is blatantly anti-gay, protecting itself behind the guise of "family friendliness".

 

I think I'd like to see a clear definition of "family friendly."

 

Something you'd have little problem showing a 7 year old; just like Star Wars.

 

Is that the official ruling?

If so, there are too many gaps.

 

It's also very subjective.

 

Seven years old seems a little young. I was of the understanding that people had to be 13 years old to post here. Is this not the case?

 

Yes, but do you have to be 13 to view these boards?

Not saying I agree with it, in fact I disagree with this whole attempt to be "family-friendly". Just want to point out that's the essential message here.

 

Look, I don't see why there's a debate. It has been drawn out simply:

This is a private server. Not government/state run. The owner or owners/admins have decreed that no homosexual fanfictions/stories are to be posted.

For WHATEVER reasons, they have the RIGHT to decree that. If they (the admins) are all anti-chickentenders pro-chickenwings, banned all pictures of chicken-tenders, then it is so. The use of the boards is a privilidge not a right.

Bottom line is: If you don't like it, you don't have to come here. But keep this in mind, you do have rights too if you feel it is wrong. Boycott this board, start a petition to Lucasfilm to revoke all rights to usage of the starwars material claiming it's anti-gay or what not. That will shut down TF.N and force them to allow it or close off message boards entirely.

But, keeping in mind the probability of this, I wouldn't get your hopes up. My best advice to everyone here (as an avid gay rights supporter) is you don't need to post gay fanfic stories here, and if you feel the burning need to do such, do it someplace else. It isn't allowed here. Drop it.

Besides, gay pride is cool and all, but this is taking it OVER board. I personally believe that anything that goes against the premise of the characters, shouldn't be allowed.

Let's say if you wanted to make Luke gay, while I could find a mountain of implication due to his whiney-girliness displayed in the movies, the character isn't gay. To make him gay, is to violate the character.

Even still, there shouldn't be any explicit stories whatsoever on the boards. PG-13 only.

Sheesh, I never thought I'd post on THAT.
-GAT

 

Let the gay fans have their threads, it's no different than the bajillion threads fawning over the latest tart-o-the-month.

Yes it is. It is different insofar as, the private operator of this site has deemed it not in sync with his vision for the site and it's audience.

That doesn't make it right, but then again, being right is not a proviso required to own or operate an internet site, nor is essentially, your need to post here.

If people feel strongly enough about the conditions underwhich they are provided a service - and indeed, aren't just rabble rousing - they always have the option to choose a different service.

This is your choice, and your only real right in this instance.

By all means, debate the right and wrongs of the situation. Point out rightly that it is discriminatory, but don't delude yourself into thinking you have a legal or indeed moral leg to stand on in terms of changing Site policy. The Senate is there for discussing the issues of Homosexuality, The YJCC is there for you to interact with other fans REGARDLESS of orientation, and thus you shouldn't feel the need to segregate yourselves into your own threads.

I believe the issue of equal representation in fanfic has been brought up, and the Owner was kind enough to respond. The issue of the Gay Bar brought up, and again in this thread, the Owner responded.

You've raised your concerns, they've been answered. The issue is now basically past.

 

Thran, that arguement has been trumpeted until my ears bleed, and I'm tired of hearing it. No one is disputing that J*sh has the right to make whatever rules he wants, however that doesn't mean we can't complain about it.

And making Luke gay is no more a violation of his character than making him do anything different from the movies. It's called AU, son.

 

Just logically speaking, is there a difference between being "anti-gay" and simply not welcoming homosexual fan fiction?

Being "anti-gay" to me implies harboring anti-gay threads and official anti-gay rhetoric. In reality, the site simply chooses not to allow Fan Fiction with homosexuality in it.

Does that make sense?

 

You, DA were banned for something other than Purist/EU arguments?

No way!

And still, no one has answered my question about Anthony Daniels...

 

Thran, that arguement has been trumpeted until my ears bleed, and I'm tired of hearing it. No one is disputing that J*sh has the right to make whatever rules he wants, however that doesn't mean we can't complain about it.

Complaining about it does nothing. Other than perhaps annoying said private owner and staff. Which isn't the way to go about things, not at all.


And making Luke gay is no more a violation of his character than making him do anything different from the movies. It's called AU, son.

Well, AU or not, I don't see the reason WHY you have to make characters gay if they are not? Other than homoeroticism (which has it's place), it's really pointless. A SW's character's sexual preference shouldn't be a front running thing. Just because your fantasy might include Luke, Han Solo, and various adventures with a lightsaber doesn't mean it needs to be written into a story and posted on a public forum for all to see.

There is such a thing called 'too much fantasy', and that's when it breaks the boundries of common sense. Again, anyone here who writes any sexually explicit stories should know that the forums where underage users can access it is a no-no. Again, the need for gay pride (as in not denying who you are or being ashamed) is welcomed, but the desire to orient your life and other's lives about your sexual orientation is not.

There is NO reason sexuality should even come to play on a STARWARS FAMILY FORUM. There are other boards for such, and it's quite sad and pathetic for people to centre their lives around what set of genitalia they prefer.

You don't see me starting up a BDSM fanclub thread here, do you? It's a /big/ part of my sexual lifestyle, but do you see me even mentioning it ever unless it's absolutely relevant? No. You don't. Why? Because it's inappropriate for the forums and against good taste. I don't care what your sex prefs are, but they shouldn't even be an issue here.

I'd be against gay fanfic too, if I had a vote in the matter. It's just not needed, nor is 'straight' sexually explicit fanfic. And yes gay implicates sexual material in the story, otherwise, it wouldn't matter if they were gay or not, you wouldn't see it. Again, this is coming from a gay rights supporter and very left of centre liberal. This isn't prejudice, this is common sense.

-GAT

 

just because it's gay fanfic, it doesn't mean it has to involve sex. It could just be some kissing, hugging or even hand holding involving gay charecters. In fact, I'm writting some gay fanfic right now that will not include sex in any way shape or form. The most explicit it'll get is some slightly pasionate kissing, which would be ok if the charecters weren't the same sex.



. . gay fanfic forever . .

 

I don't think the anti-gay angle is advertised clearly enough. I think there should be a big, red warning label on the main page that says "NO GAY STUFF ALLOWED".

 

I could have sworn I had posted here last night, but I guess not.

Anyway...

Yes, Josh has the right to forbid homosexuality in fanfic if he wants, but I think the thing to do would be to try to convince him that it should be allowed, that the posters want it. I know there is a petition out there somewhere, and I also know of at least two former regular posters who have since boycotted these boards due to their anti-gay policies.

Also keep in mind that there are several thousand registered posters here and you're not going to make everyone happy.

As it is, if Josh doesn't want homosexuality in fanfic here, I think that the "family-friendly" reasoning is kind of stupid. There are all types of families--not just mother, father, brother, sister, and dog. As far as I'm concerned, a homosexual couple is a family--just like my husband and our cat and I are a family.

As far as making the characters gay when they are not--in that case, we need to eliminate certain pairings such as Obidalas, in which both Obi-Wan and Amidala go completely against their canon characterizations to be with each other.

I think we also need to eliminate cross-species fics, which in my mind is the equivalent of bestiality.

 

anakin_girl, this is what I have been saying since I joined this interesting debate.

Everyone here knows that Josh has the right to "forbid" things. Nobody is disputing that. What people seem to be disputing is his choices.

I can't see why people are getting annoyed by members questionning policy.

Yes, people can go elsewhere but I like the JC on the whole. That doesn't stop me wanting to improve it or question certain areas that I feel are wrong.

Forbiding something on the grounds of family friendliness suggests that the aforementioned banned "subject" is not family friendly. Being homosexual does not necessarily make a person "non-family friendly". As I have said, millions of people recognise and accept that gay people can and do make good parents and members of the family. Now this may not sit well with the traditonal western/christian/US sense of the word but that does not make it wrong. It just makes it different.

Gay relationships in fiction and literature do not have to be sexual or explicit in order to be portrayed. A clever writer can create and build characters in a whole manner of ways.

As I have already stated, two giants in English Literature have written/commented on same sex relationships (i.e. Shakespeare and Marlowe). Is the JC/Josh stating that these two playwrights are not family friendly? As a teacher I would be thrilled to know that any one of my pupils were reading Shakespeare/Marlowe instead of spending hours on message boards or chat rooms.

What of the Greek Classics? There are numerous suggestions/commentary of male love and the like.

Even the ancient Samurai declared a love of his fellow warrior which went deeper than a fraternal love of the brother in arms. Are these to deemed non-family friendly?

I just think the justification given for the banning of gay references in FanFic is weak to say the least.

Sure, have boundaries but don't limit creativity due to exagerated sensitivities.

One final note. It does seem a little odd that some people are more willing to accept relationships between species than the same sex of the same species.

 

There is NO reason sexuality should even come to play on a STARWARS FAMILY FORUM. There are other boards for such, and it's quite sad and pathetic for people to centre their lives around what set of genitalia they prefer.

Uh...why not? Sexuality came into play in the original trilogy with the Han/Leia/Luke triangle, and again during the PT with Anakin/Padme. Sexuality/Love is an integral part of what Star Wars IS, so it stands to reason that a forum centered around it (Star Wars) is going to have to deal with it (sexuality) at some point.

And news flash here, it's not "sad and pathetic" as you so open-mindedly put it , for sexuality to play an important and integral part in people's lives. Society as a whole still thinks that a person's sexual orientation is important enough to form stupid, half-baked stereotypes on it. Your sexuality can affect things ranging from jobs you obtain (Though this isn't legal) to how your own loved ones (Family, friends, etc.) view you. It's an important issue, and not something trivial as you tried to make it out to be.

Show some respect for an issue that brings monumental change to people's lives on a daily basis.

JMA

 

The "if you don't like it then leave" argument is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. How many tens of thousands of people visit these boards? TF.N has done everything in its power to make sure that they are practically the only place to go for fan interaction on this scale. Friendships and communities have been built here, and many posters have been here for years. To tell them that since they don't like one aspect of board policy they should leave and never return is as stupid as telling someone that opposes the war in Iraq that they should leave the U.S.

Don't you people understand that the reason people are fighting so hard to make these changes is because they like being here the 99% of the time they aren't being descriminated against?

/going back to my non-"family friendly" liberal atheist broken home

 

BobTheGoon is my hero. We need to get this guy a new poorly-written rap flame.

 

Yes, BobTheGoon rocks. And JediMasterAaron--yeah, no kidding. Why are people so chicken-poop about sex? News flash: sex is not a scary monster that goes "bump" in the night. To quote George Michael, "Sex is natural, sex is good, not everybody does it but everybody should. Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is best when it's one-on-one." And yes, sex is going to enter fanfic at some point, maybe not explicit NC-17 stories, but at least romance. Where do people think Luke and Leia came from? They were delivered by flying Gundaarks?

Asabrush: One final note. It does seem a little odd that some people are more willing to accept relationships between species than the same sex of the same species.

No kidding again. It's OK for Padme to be with Jar-Jar, but it's not OK for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to be together? Please.

 

To quote George Michael, "Sex is natural, sex is good, not everybody does it but everybody should. Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is best when it's one-on-one."

You quote George Michael, you get on my WUL. Simple as that.

JMA

 

" I don't see the reason WHY you have to make characters gay if they are not?"

Why does anyone have to make fanfic at all?

"Again, anyone here who writes any sexually explicit stories should know that the forums where underage users can access it is a no-no."

This has been said in every thread on the subject:

NO ONE IS ASKING FOR SEXUALLY EXPLICIT FAN FIC

We're just asking for the same rules to apply to heterosexual and homosexual relationships. If Obi-Wan and Padme can kiss, so can Obi-Wan and Anakin. That's how it should be.

"There is NO reason sexuality should even come to play on a STARWARS FAMILY FORUM."

Then ban all romance fics, not just the gay ones.

"I don't care what your sex prefs are, but they shouldn't even be an issue here."

So all the "hot girl" threads, and "dating advice" threads should be done away with?

"And yes gay implicates sexual material in the story, otherwise, it wouldn't matter if they were gay or not, you wouldn't see it."

You might. There could very easily be an innocent kiss or holding of hands. Sexually explicit descriptions are not required to depict a relationship. There was a relationship between Han and Leia, but did we ever see them get down and dirty on the floor of the Millenium Falcon?

In conclusion: you lose. Please drive through and pick up your phone at the next window.

 

Why does anyone have to make fanfic at all?

That's the most relevant question asked to date.

 

Yay me.