TV Discussion Homosexuality in Star Wars Television

Although I cannot tell you not to be offended, as it is your right to be, I will try to explain why I don't think you have a reason to.

Any piece of media is targeted to a certain audience and when it comes to US made media the audience is predominantly the american public. Now as we all know the majority of people in the US are white (70%) and almost all are straight, so it makes sense to have protagonists share the same characteristics as your audience since they will be more likely to empathise with them and ultimately care about the show and keep watching it.
In the specific case of Star Wars, an american action fantasy adventure, it also makes sense for the protagonist to be male (ie. Luke) since traditionally these types of stories are aimed at young boys (who are more likely to buy your toys and action figures). The same is also true with Rebels although now Disney is aiming for diversity (the only white male new main character is Kallus). Star Wars is also a special case because not only the writers have to balance all types of human minorities but there are hundreds of alien spices that need to be written into the stories.

There is nothing inherently racist/sexist/discriminatory or dangerous in US movies/shows for choosing these protagonists just as there is nothing of the kind when a Chinese movie only stars Chinese actors.. it's just marketing.

 

One thing I have a slight issue with is the need for Earth diversity to exist 1:1 in the GFFA. Why limit to just human LGBT? There's so many different races, in all kinds of forms. The Yevetha were definitely very alien, in every way (appearance, behavior, reproduction, etc). So were the Barabels.

As far as characters go, I really don't care what their preference is so long as they're well written, fully developed characters. I'm not at all a fan of Sabine/Ketsu, since that seemed a bit too shoehorned in and forced. Same issue I had with Mulan in OUAT (aside from the fact that she bore no resemblance to animated Mulan in any way, other than appearance and name). And also with Clarke/Lexa in The 100, since that came literally out of nowhere. Something else I don't understand is why women (& men to a lesser extent i.e. Poe & Finn) in US moves/TV are either enemies or lesbians. They can't just be friends?

Why is there a need to explicitly spell out a character's sexuality? Why not leave it up to the imagination? On one hand, I do understand a need to see people like yourself in media. On the other hand, none of my favorite characters had any resemblance to me whatsoever. If anything, it helped me since I had to imagine the world through many different POVs. Personally, I like the idea of leaving the sexuality of iconic characters like Luke & Rey ambiguous, so different people can see what they want. Sure didn't hurt the Kirk/Spock fandom or all the various LOTR slash that's out there. What they are to me doesn't have to be what they are to you, and that's ok. Nothing wrong with respectfully disagreeing.

 

Cheif egger onner too...

Never thought I'd see the day, EVER - there was a time when THIS very discussion (Gay CANON Characters???) would have been cause for the 'Banhammer' or the very least the thread locked within a half dozen post, if that.

Ol' swap and shop Obi-wan!

I think many of my works got lost in the 'great move', but to keep this from becoming a fan fic thread, I'll DM you in a sec. The Obi fics (the ones I read, but did not write) would have never made it past the first post...


EDA:

Because Right now, humans/humanoids are the dominant 'leads' in the series, and people's reaction to the 'new inclusiveness' (See various Finn threads in the movie forums) is the very reason why. We can't even have a 'black stormtrooper' without people having a meltdown, and the whole 'they're all clones' augment is as weak as third run coffee.

Again, THIS is why we need good stories with *gasp* normal people who just happen to be LGBT - because too many people equate 'Gay' characters with 'OMG OMG OMG!! DIRTY PORNFIC!

 

no offense Jedi_Jade-Skywalker, but you downplayed LGBT individuals being rounded up and sent to camps in Chechnya. Your the last person I'll take sage advice from on this topic.

 

Where did they say that in theit post here? I can't see it. Also if we're going to discuss homosexuality and what's happening in Chechnya please take it to the Official Homosexuality Thread.

 

I am curios when do you think this place flipped from not being LGBTQ friendly to its current acceptance?

 

I took a break as well - a long one. Place had changed so much....

And BTW, anakinfansince1983 New work, and guess who shows up?

 

...Man, I can't believe that this whole "non-straight romance is shoehorned and forced" thing is getting used now even for romance that didn't actually happen.

 

Actually, none of it 'actually happened' - it's all about speculation which can go pretty wild when unleashed!

 

Chuck Wendig confirmed on twitter that Rae Sloane is bisexual.

 

Really? I never saw anything in any of the stories I read with Sloane in them to suggest her sexuality one way or the other.

Then again, I always read Sloane as a very asexual person who lives for her work, her Navy and her Empire, and everything else is unimportant.

 

She mentions about having a wife or husband in the latest book of the Aftermath series I believe. I don't think she's actually married though.

 

Ah, I think I remember now. She was thinking about how her life would be if she left the Empire or something like that, didn't she?

 

I think so.

 

If I remember correctly from the Aftermath trilogy, I believe the Empire strongly encouraged its officers to marry the appropriate gender. In other words, they probably frowned on homosexuality/bisexuality, at least post-Lords of the Sith (where a female Moff had a wife prior to the events of the novel).

 

The appropriate gender?

Also their were a couple LGBT officers besides Sloane so I don't think it's frowned upon. If there's a quote on that from the book I'd like to see it, because I don't remember hearing about that at all.

 

Let me rephrase: the Empire encouraged its officers to have heterosexual relationships. I don't know the exact page, but I thought I read something about that in the Aftermath Trilogy. However, I can easily be mistaken.

 

I hope not.

Making the Empire sexist and spiecist was one of the few things I really hated about the old EU.

I don't like when some authors are trying to incorporate things like racism, gender discrimination, etc. into Star Wars. One of the main things I always loved about Star Wars, even when I was a kid, was the fact that nobody cared about your species, gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. in Star Wars, at least in the movies.

You can have representatives of different species sitting at the same table in a cantina and nobody cares, your best buddy or your partner can be of different species and again, no one even notices. The Jedi Order from the PT is the best representation of this, where you have Jedi from all over the galaxy working and living together, and the only thing that matters is that they're all Jedi striving for the same goals.

Sure, the Empire in the OT is purely comprised of white males, but I always considered this more of an artistic choice of George to more distinguish the Empire from the Rebellion, rather than a statement that only white heterosexual men can be Imperials. I like that they're making the First Order more diverse in the new movies, as well as the Empire in the new novels and comics. I hope they'll add more non-humans to the First Order and even to the Empire in future works. Thrawn doesn't need to be the only high-ranking non-human in the Empire. We already have Mas Amedda after all. And it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to make the Empire a strictly human organisation in a galaxy as diverse and multicultural as the GFFA is.

 

This is exactly why the Empire may as well keep whatever level of human supremacist thought, for thematic reasons. We already have the Republic-era clones developing their own culture and being encouraged to express their individuality and paint all over their armor and ships and give themselves names and consider themselves people, followed by the complete crushing of individuality in the stormtroopers. And isn't Imperial government's racial enslavement of various aliens still a thing? I could swear I remember confirmation of wookiees somewhere, but I'm half asleep right now.

It's foolish for the Empire to have every single possible prejudice (such as all the variations on human vs. human prejudice) solely because they're the bad guys, but when one actually makes sense and works with the theme there's no reason to get rid of it just so the Empire will be perfectly open-minded and embracing of all possible diversity instead. (As a bonus, above and beyond species prejudices being the most likely prejudice in a sci-fi setting, it means that the only primary discrimination in the SW universe is directed at a type of person that doesn't actually exist in the audience. You are then able to explore those themes without hurting any kids' escapism. It's win-win.)

 

I understand the thematic reasons, as it makes for a nice contrast between the Empire/First Order and the Jedi/Rebellion/Resistance, however it makes no sense at all to me in-universe wise.

Why would the Empire, an organisation obsessed with efficiency and order, deprive itself of uncountable billions of potential non-human soldiers. In the OT we see mainly humans, cause George didn't have the money and technology at that time, but in the PT we see, especially in the Galactic Senate, that the galaxy is full of various species and that humans are not as dominant as the OT would make us believe. Even if humans make up let's say half the GFFA population, its still highly impractical to deprive your military of the other half. Also, why would Palpatine create a spiecist Empire? As a Sith, he should be above such things. In this, the Sith and Jedi are very similar. Your species, your gender, your sexual orientation, etc. all don't matter, the only thing that matters to the Sith is how much power you have.

I can go with the Empire enslaving species like the Wookiees or the Geonosians, cause they're pretty far removed from human appearance and behaviour and you would have to make serious modifications to Imperial technology and uniforms for them to fit, but near human species like the Chiss, Zabrak, Miraluka or even Twi'lek shouldn't pose a problem.

Making the Empire spiecist to a certain degree makes sense in-universe for example against the former Separatist races or against known criminals like the Hutts or Falleen, but turning the Empire into a fully humans versus everyone else organisation just doesn't make sense to me. I know Timothy Zahn tried to explain it in the new Thrawn novel, but it felt forced to me, like he was just trying to make his new novel still fit with his old Legends novels.

And I don't see this as kids' escapism, rather I see the GFFA more of an ideal we should all strive to achieve here on Earth.

But I agree that it's foolish for the Empire to have every single possible prejudice we have in our world. Luckily, it looks like that with characters like Rae Sloane or Sinjir, this isn't the case

 

I think you missed the meaning of that sentence entirely. I am not making abstract statements about ideals. I'm talking about the importance of all kids feeling welcome to imagine having fun space adventures regardless of their gender, skin color, or sexual preference because they can see that people like them can be anything in this universe and don't have to put up with the BS they face in their everyday lives.

 

I think they are right. If I remember correctly it was in the first Aftermath book and it was Sinjir commented on it in an inner monologue

 

You are right, I did miss the meaning of that sentence you intended.

And I fully agree with your comment, that's why I'm a proponent of a more diverse and open Galactic Empire when it comes to its membership.