Senate Homosexuality: the Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by zombie, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    some people do this already
  2. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Any statistics on that anyone knows of? I've not heard of anyone doing that, although I know quite a few people who point to their own marriages as examples that marriage is not about religion.

    On a larger point, at least from how boycotts work, I don't see how it would push for change. It doesn't increase awareness, everyone's heard about same-sex marriage. And it doesn't create a demand for change because it's not as though government requires marriages to be happening in the same way that businesses can be successfully boycotted because they need the business.
  3. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    Feb 18, 2001
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    There's something I don't understand about gay marriage and religion. Supposedly God (be it the Jewish, Christian or Muslim version thereof) is this all powerful being but instead of alleviating suffering he'd rather, according to his followers, get mad about men bumming other men and calling each other "husband".

    If you read any of the scriptures, it's apparent God is hugely insecure, massively egomanical, jealous, and very petty. But this is a new low and makes no sense. It's like, if Superman was real but he only used his powers to prevent able bodied people parking in handicapped spaces.

    at least there remains no viable, intelligent argument against gay marriage. That's some consolation. Yet another chink in the armour of religion and faith's as strong as ever.

    Puzzling.
  4. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
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  5. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

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  6. LostOnHoth Chosen One

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    Interesting that the only resignations linked to the policy change were from military chaplains. Typical.
    Last edited by LostOnHoth, Sep 16, 2012
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  7. Ghost Chosen One

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    Oct 13, 2003
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    The new normal... http://news.yahoo.com/majority-lati...ay-marriage-010146448--abc-news-politics.html

    59% of Hispanics support Gay Marriage

    52% of African-Americans support Gay Marriage


    Maryland, Washington, Maine have legalized Gay Marriage.

    Minnesota has defeated a constitutional amendment to ban Gay Marriage.

    Tammy Baldwin has been elected as the first openly-gay U.S. Senator.
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  8. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    lowbacca i cant find stats but i know one such couple and there have been several high profile celebrity examples, most vocally sarah silverman and jimmy kimmel, but they wound up breaking up anyways :p

    all this to say "owned, bigots... owned"
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  9. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Jun 28, 2006
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    I feel its worth noting that in Minnesota, same-sex marriage is banned. That didn't change. it's just that as it's only a statute, the bar to clear to get around that is far less. But that one seems to be getting ridiculously overhyped, comparatively. I'm very pleased to see Maryland and Washington approve the same-sex marriage laws that were passed, and I'm even more pleased to see that Maine has reversed their last decision and passed a law to allow same-sex marriage. I find myself jealous that California hasn't had that same motivation to put it on the ballot.

    I can't find myself caring less about the election of a gay Senator, though. It just strikes me as utterly insignificant. In the same way that I don't think we're now doomed to theocracy because the one open atheist in Congress, Pete Stark, was defeated. There's this weird obsession with checking off boxes for what people have been elected once, rather than how fair our policies are.
  10. darth-calvin Force Ghost

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    Dec 10, 2002
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    As a Minnesotan, I can assure that the issue was most definitely about acceptance of gay marriage. No one was voting "no" because it was already illegal - the vote yes people made sure of that with their campaign. And while Minnesota is a consistently blue state, they are blue because of labor. We are not in one of the socially liberal areas like the others. The significance is that not only did popular support for gay marriage win on the coasts, but also in the "socially conservative" midwest. It signifies a shift in public opinion across much of the country.

    It also marked a signifcant shift in strategy. It was the first time we weren't focused on beating people over the head with talk about discrimination and civil rights - which lost every time before yesterday - instead we focused on personal stories and building understanding.
  11. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    It seems more like it just didn't lose harder, to me. I'm glad it didn't pass, but it didn't do anything to open doors yet. When the statute goes, that'll be a great point of victory. And I'm very glad to hear that tactic taken, that's what I've been hoping for for some time. With people voting emotionally, it needs to be given that sort of personal connection.
  12. darth-calvin Force Ghost

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    I'd still disagree with that - with the popular vote secured the legislative branches can now comfortably take action to legalize same sex marriage - especially now that the dems control it all. By "comfortably" I mean that they can do so without the looming fear of losing their seats with another gay amendment on future ballots. The ballot measure was put on there to bring out the republican base in this election and it totally flopped.
  13. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

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    Jul 31, 2002
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    I was on the bus this past Saturday with a guy who wouldn't shut up. He finally got around to talking about school and how the schools are 'teaching our kids to be gay. Teaching them that 2 moms at the soccer game is okay.' I bit my tongue rather than challenge him on his ignorance. No one can 'teach' a child to be gay. It isn't a learned behavior.

    The guy is a Jehovah's Witness.
    Last edited by Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi, Nov 20, 2012
  14. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    May 19, 2005
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    This is just a wild guess, but maybe it seems insignificant for you because as a straight white male you've had no shortage in your life of seeing people just like you accomplish all sorts of things? And therefore don't see their accomplishments against or in spite of odds as a reinforcement that some avenue that has never been open to anyone like you before has now been opened?
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    "Good. I'd rather cheer on my kids while standing next to the two moms than while standing next to the person who preaches bigotry on public transportation."
  16. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Question then, would you put the election of a gay senator in the same category as the election of the first Buddhist in the Senate (Mazie Hirono of Hawaii) or the first Hindu in Congress (Kawika Crowley)? Both of whom were elected this year. Or Keith Ellison as the first Muslim in 2006? Or are those meaningless distinctions?
    Last edited by Lowbacca_1977, Nov 21, 2012
  17. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    May 19, 2005
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    Yes, and I've seen headlines about all of those and read articles about Gabbard*'s plan to be sworn in on the Bhagavad Gita. (And I remember articles about Ellison being sworn in on the Koran in 2006 as well).


    *Edited Gabbard's name in. I had to google because the name Crowley didn't sound right. The person you're thinking of is Tulsi Gabbard. Kawika Crowley was the losing candidate in that race, I guess?
    Last edited by AaylaSecurOWNED, Nov 21, 2012
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  18. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    Yeah, Ellison's election was a pretty big deal. There were several stories about it. What were you, under a rock?
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  19. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    i met keith ellison btw. i never get tired of namedropping that guy. he owns
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Nov 21, 2012
  20. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Yeah, I pulled the wrong name from that when I looked up the candidate's name. So, there's minus points to me on reading thoroughly. I did mean Tulsi Gabbard, just used the wrong name there when I looked it up.

    So, the reason I ask then, is, if we're going to treat those as meaningful qualifiers, then I don't see the basis of telling me that I have no shortage of 'people like me' when it comes to elections, given how rare atheist elected officials are. I wasn't aware there were any til a few years ago, and he was elected after being targeted, in part, for being an atheist. I'm used to the idea that atheists will not get elected (and I now live in a state where the unenforceable law on the books says they can't hold office, anyway), but I still contend that the proper measure isn't how many atheists are being elected to Congress, but how Congressional actions treat atheists. Which is why A. I didn't get angry at Pete Stark losing (although I have issues with him being attacked for being an atheist, just as I do have issues with the attacks on Ellison for being Muslim, for example) because my concern isn't if Congress shares my religious stance, but if they govern properly, as that's the far more problematic thing. I don't understand atheists that simply get upset that there aren't more atheists in Congress, either, because that misses where the priorities should be, imo.
  21. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    Aug 18, 2002
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    when you walk around people dont judge you for being an atheist. they dont legislate against you for being an atheist. moreover american atheists are disproportionately affluent and white. so you'll have to excuse me for finding it laughable that you think you're (cherry-picked) identifier of atheist is comparable to any of the others named
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Nov 21, 2012
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  22. Ghost Chosen One

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    Oct 13, 2003
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    Absolutely!! And I posted in the Senate about Hirono and Gabbards' elections too. And Keith Ellison's election was probably the biggest deal, it was everywere in the media. And a lot of people conflated Ellison getting sworn in on the Quran with Obama, back in the era of 2007 forwarded emails. I've seen many articles on Tulsi Gabbad, and she's been appearing on quite a few television networks too.

    Also, these elections are all big deals because it shows a growing acceptance of diversity in society. In a "perfect" society/government, the make-up of Congress would be nearly identical to the make-up of the country.Of course that will never happen, and it shouldn't be forced, but it's nice when Congress becomes more representative of the country, it's good when more people feel like they're being represented and heard.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Nov 21, 2012
  23. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    Okay it took an extra post, but what do I win.
  24. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Edit: Ending this discussion on my part before it veers further off topic
    Last edited by Lowbacca_1977, Nov 21, 2012
  25. Lord Vivec Chosen One

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    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    EDIT: Well there goes that.
    Last edited by Lord Vivec, Nov 21, 2012